InorganicMatter
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
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PAE brings a ~6% performance hit to processing speed.
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Holy Moley 16GB OCZ for $430 shipped (4x4GB!!)
- Thread starter SirKronan
- Start date
PAE brings a ~6% performance hit to processing speed.
aggiestudd07
Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
- Messages
- 528
vista 64 supports *only* 128gb
If you are quibbling about a 6% processor hit in a corporate IT environment, then you should have bought a bigger server in the first place. Because when it comes to databases, RAM is king. That, and disk IO, on most garden variety servers are way bigger issues than raw processing power.
Microsoft codes artificial limits like this in order to create more product distinctions so they can charge more money for the highest end products. It's actually a bit of extra work to create these limitations.
Same thing with the CPU (which have become socket) limitations in the various operating systems. Windows 2000 Pro was artificially limited to two CPUs, XP Pro is limited two two sockets (any number of cores or logical CPUs per socket allowed). XP Home is limited to one socket. No real reason other than to create product distinctions.
If you look at any of the BSDs or Linux, they have none of these artificial limitations.
/dev/null
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2001
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Bumping into these artificial limitations when my needs changed is one of the reasons I dumped Windows.
Vista 64 Basic: 8 GB
Vista 64 Home Premium: 16 GB
Vista 64 Business/Enterprise/Ultimate: 128+ GB
I could be wrong, but from a marketing point of view it makes sense. Home Basic is for minimal PCs. They price it less than the other versions (though not much less than home premium since SP1). Even Home Premium is inexpensive...and virtually nobody is running with more than 8GB of ram (and few have that much).
And let's face it, if you need more than 8GB of ram (never mind more than 16GB), you can afford to buy a more expensive OS, and MS has 2 versions to choose from.
I could be wrong, but from a marketing point of view it makes sense. Home Basic is for minimal PCs. They price it less than the other versions (though not much less than home premium since SP1). Even Home Premium is inexpensive...and virtually nobody is running with more than 8GB of ram (and few have that much).
And let's face it, if you need more than 8GB of ram (never mind more than 16GB), you can afford to buy a more expensive OS, and MS has 2 versions to choose from.
You sound like a customer that doesn't mind paying for a product that has the surface appearance or bullet-point list of 'features' that meet your expectations at a given price point. I am a customer who wants to pay for products that have genuine engineering merit that qualifies for my dollar. As someone with a computer science background, I have a pretty good idea of what goes into a given piece of software/hardware, and I have a good idea of what are artificial restrictions programmed or designed into something vs. inherent limitations, and the idea of paying more to essentially unlock features which were already there to begin with is, for me, annoying. I feel like I'm being played by marketing people with a lot of Microsoft products, but, obviously, a lot of customers don't seem to notice/mind.
LOL, good point, sorry I forgot what forum I was on for a second.
Make a partition on the ramdisk, mount it, install game to it. Create image of partition for when your power goes out or you turn off your computer. Wash, rinse, repeat for every game you own
So [H]ard.
Aaaarrrggg.... Yes, they do that, and a BUNCH of other big corporations pull similar shenanigans, and YES it annoys me too, just like you, and YES I hold myself to a high standard of honesty and ethics in my life. I really try to be a genuine and altruistic person .... but at the same time, if I was in a position to make X amount of dollars for a program I designed and engineered, or could make X times X amount of dollars more if I code different versions of it with different "features" at different price points to capture every market share segment, I can't say that I wouldn't take advantage of that. Why the hell do I have a business if I don't want to MAKE MONEY. If I have only one price point and one product that does every feature I design, I am alienating the "high end" market who is willing to pay more to get more, AND the low end market who can't afford my set price for my one product that does it all. If I have a product I can sell at different price points to different customers, I just captured a whole lot more market share.
You can spout your reasons for solid engineering earning your dollars all you want, and many will agree with you, but if you were in their place and could make WAY more money by doing what they are doing with multiple versions, and feed your family and secure your financial future that much more ... at least I know that it would be hard for me not to market it that way. I want my family to have the best stinkin life possible, and while I care about other people a great deal, it is my own who matter to me the most, and I would be lying if I said otherwise....
/end off topic post
You should see what they do in other industries. Take aerospace for example.
So you go to Mr. Boeing and say OK I want a 777, series 300 Extended Range and say, I am ready to pay the list price of $225 million USD.
And Mr Boeing says, well, for $225m, you get basic airplane with lower takeoff weights that cannot go so far like it says in the brochure. But for only $20 million more, I can sell you a 777-300ER with the top allowable takeoff weight of 775,000 lbs. It's only a software change, so for $20 million you are good to go!
Same thing with the engines. You say, OK Mr. General Electric Aircraft Engines Division, I want a new GE-90-115B1 for Mr. Boeing to install on my new 777,and I am ready to pay list price of $5 million for each engine.. And Mr. GE says, well sir, for $5 million I can only sell you engine with basic thrust rating! But for another $2 million dollars you get the full thrust rating so you can realize the full range that Mr. Boeing promises! It's just a software change, we put USB dongle in engine for you and then you get more thrust! Such a sweet deal for only $2 million extra!
...and so on....
Silly nray ... you thought Microsoft was bad....
Citizen _insane
Gawd
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
- Messages
- 565
Wow, that is just about the sadies thing I've ever heard. Remind me not to buy anything from Boeing or GE.
Don't fly or get a sams club credit card.
I'm sure they're not the only big companies that do this either....
ANYWAYS..
Anyone get their 16 gigabytes of memory yet?? I bet the 16GB actually helps supreme commander a bit.... I've already got 8GB, so the jump to 16 isn't quite as justified for me. I'm lovin' eight. Got the stuff overclocked to 1000MHz on 5-4-4-15 timings vs. stock settings of 5-5-5-18 and 800MHz. All it took was 1.95v vs 1.8 stock. I wonder how well these 4GB chips overclock and how much voltage it takes ... I bet they get a little toasty....
aww crap. DEAL IS DEAD. Just looked. Price up to $549 and OOS anyways.
A lot of us have computer science/engineering degrees (some more than one)but I fail to see what why that should affect the price of a product that's aimed at the general public. However, I also don't see why this limitation would push an individual to Business or Ultimate, unless you need more than 16GB of ram. A $99.00 copy of Home Premium will work just fine.
Regardless, for the general public, ram limit is meaningless. Their current machine/next purchase is unlikely to have more than 4GB of ram, and it certainly won't have 16GB, much less 17GB+
OTOH, a business might want more than 16GB of ram, and MS is charging them more for that ability. How is that any different than a company selling software (or even giving it away) to the home user and charging far more to businesses for the same software, or software with a few features that may be useful for business/enterprise use?
My guess is that by the time there's a reason for me to go ABOVE 16GB, I'll be on windows 7 or 8. One thing I'm, certain of, when I move to 16GB, the average pc will likely have 1/2 that amount.
You all fail to understand what my point is, because I wasn't being very clear - I think it would be awesome if most people would buy software based on their engineering merit more than just their perceived value.
I was hoping that by talking about this distinction, some of the forum members here would go, "yeah, that makes sense, I will think more about how companies make software and try to reward the ones who deserve my money based on that metric more."
Instead I seem to have polarized a lot of people into telling me how the world and current consumers work (I am familiar with it, and my post was hoping to *change* it by positively influencing the way the consumers who read my post think).
If you're happy with the way things are even after reading what I've written, then fine, but if you, like me, think the world could be better and you as a consumer could influence products just like I believe I can by making purchase choices based on standard such as engineering merit, then go that route.
siliconnerd
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 1,768
One could argue that the reason that the higher priced versions are so much more expensive than the cheaper ones is that MS uses them to somewhat subsidize the cheaper versions.
I just don't see how the 16GB limit on Home Premium says anything about the engineering merit (or lack thereof) of the OS. If Vista is the greatest engineering achievement in the history of S/W, limiting Premium to 16GB doesn't change that for the targeted audience. As far as they're concerned, it can work with unlimited ram.
If, OTOH, you think it's terrible engineering, then the fact that home basic can work with 128GB won't change a thing.
I understand your position, and I admire your goal with what you say. I might even agree from a consumer standpoint, because I want the most for my dollar. Every consumer does, but even if you change the minds of EVERY SINGLE member of [H] times TEN, it will not put much of a dent in the overall market, and that's assuming every member actually reads this thread and then changes their minds to agree with you and switches to another OS, keeps XP, or w/e in order to follow your lead. Even if that were to happen, it wouldn't make hardly any difference at all. Vista sold more than 90 million copies before it even worked properly. Does [H] have even a million members?
As noble as your idea is, it's not going to happen.
And again, I point out that if you were in MS's shoes, or any software company's shoes, you would do the same thing in order to maximize profits. It's neither right nor wrong, it's business. You and I are on the consumer end. We want more for our money. We value all the solid engineering we can get for our dollar. If you were on the seller end, you would want the MOST PROFIT for the minimum amount of engineering you could do to earn it. Even if you started out 100% noble, giving customers a really solid "widget" for their dollar, you still have to be profitable, and you will do what you can to maximize that.
I could go on and on and on about examples. Here are a few, not even a tip of the iceberg:
Apple charges 1800 for their entry Macbook air. The jump from a 1.6GHz to a 1.8GHz costs them an extra $33 per unit. That's all the additional Intel charges them for the difference, even though it's a customized CPU that costs Intel more to make because it's special for Apple. Regardless of the good deal Intel gives Apple, Apple charges you and me $300 for the improvement.
Pinnacle Studio products have LOADS of capabilities, transitions, and video effects. Adding these to every version of Pinnacle Studio they sell would cost them merely a few dollars a copy, yet they charge consumers $100 per pack!!! If I want the wedding transition pack, I pay extra, even though the program shows a demo of it right there with a watermark. The program is physically capable of doing the extra transitions and effects right out of the box, with the simple $100 Studio Plus version, but when you click on it, you have to pay for the pack in order to "unlock" the features.
Adobe is another example, automobile manufacturers have ALWAYS been an example of this. They always advertise a decked out car with options and features that you love on the commercial that make you want to go to the lot and pick one up. When you arrive, you find that the features that attracted you cost extra, not the "Starting at just $14,900" price they advertise.
Laptops in retail stores, of all brands, come with trial editions of Norton, McAffee, Trend, Office, Muvee Producer, Nero, etc. All of these programs physically have functionality and capability to do exactly what their expensive counterparts do, but to unlock these features past their trial period, or take advantage of features limited to "pro" or "deluxe" versions, you pay a premium, even though the trial you have on your computer may have the ability to do whatever you need right out of the box.
Welcome to life.
Welcome to business.
Don't like it?
Don't ever buy ANYTHING.
Even if you change all of our minds, you're not going to affect anything because the above is just the way businesses are run. You want to get the most for your dollar. They want to make the most dollars they can for what they produce. Welcome to capitalism.
holy crap that was longer than I wanted it to be....
Amen.
Well ... DDR2 is low, but I dunno if it's gonna get THAT low by next year....
Citizen _insane
Gawd
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
- Messages
- 565
Yeah, you won't see this stuff for sub $100 for a long time.
just a heads up
while this deal did die from increase in price
there is always this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227354
just get two sets (when they get'em back in stock).
should be about $440 for 16GB!
while this deal did die from increase in price
there is always this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227354
just get two sets (when they get'em back in stock).
should be about $440 for 16GB!