History repeats itself...

T

tranCendenZ

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http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIy

7800GT > X1800XL
Is it me or does this look like 6800GT vs. X800PRO all over again? (Except this time the Nvidia part is much more widely available and $100 cheaper). Not a huge difference, but the 7800GT definitely seems to have the edge.

From some of the reviews, it also looks like the X1800XT has the edge over the 7800GTX, similar to the x800xtpe vs 6800U. Of course, just like last year the difference is not that huge and the x1800xt won't be available for over a month - plus we don't know the performance gains a 512mb 7800gtx will yield yet. And again, the 7800GTX will likely be ~$100 cheaper than the X1800XT due to the price drops from it being out so long.

Seems like history has repeated itself in terms of performance :)
 
im not one bit surprised.

as far as that non angle dependent af goes? i'll give nvidia 1-2 months to release a AF mode thats angle independent for the geforce 6 and 7 series.

AA with HDR? Well with the x1800xl no one can seem to get HDR to work in Far Cry. I knew this would happen, ati gives us AA with HDR and no games support it. 3dc anyone?

also the x1800 series is using a crap load more power than the 7800 series.

and price? do i really have to mention price? the 7800gt and gtx is $100 dollars cheaper than their "counterparts".


not impressed and not surprised.

:rolleyes:
 
tranCendenZ said:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIy

From some of the reviews, it also looks like the X1800XT has the edge over the 7800GTX, similar to the x800xtpe vs 6800U. Of course, just like last year the difference is not that huge...
Click to expand...

...and from what I can see the 81.84 drivers nvidia has released today (what a coincidence...) eat up a chunk of that difference, they just gave me a 10% performance increase in FEAR mp demo on my 7800gtx...

Hats off to NV if they did that without cheating.
 
Im very happy with everything ive heard today. Nvidia can take their damn shimmering and shove it up their asses. ATi here i come.
 
Not too mention NVIDIA still has the 8x.xx series driver up their sleeves and a 512mb part coming.
 
Cali3350 said:
Im very happy with everything ive heard today. Nvidia can take their damn shimmering and shove it up their asses. ATi here i come.
Click to expand...


There you go waiting..................again! :eek:
 
That's kind of ghey to put out shitty drivers and then make them better when you see what the competition has. :(

It's a sad sad world out there. So you don't get all the power that you paid for until the next gen is released.

 
Well even if ATi doesn't have any sort of advantage in the market they are defenitely forcing nVidia to work harder, and to constantly improve and add features. Win&Win
 
I, for one, am not impressed thus far with 520. It was supposed to be a whole new chip, and it's obvious it's just another extension. At stock speeds it can't beat a GTX in much other than 3DMark, which is useless.

Still the numbers are close enough and it might still prod nVidia.

Good luck next time ATI...
 
wizzackr said:
they better eat a lot more than 10% though: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=3603&page=9 :eek:
Click to expand...

Firingsquad is using the new 81.84 drivers for the FEAR demo, and yes the difference is much closer now for this demo:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1800_xt_xl/page15.asp
Note that the minimum framerate is actually higher on the Nvidia cards.

However, remember that Nvidia still has a 512mb 7800GTX coming (possibly before the x1800xt is even available for sale), and apparently the retail version of FEAR will be more NV-friendly than the demo. So this one game is not really too much of a concern IMO.
 
animosity said:
lol ati.
Click to expand...

"The X1800 XT is a beast, really. It's big, it's fast yes it is the new flagship in the graphics card arena. NVIDIA has been de-crowned on a pure performance level, period." GURU3D

"The basic architecture, clocks and memory size of the Radeon X1800 XT make it undoubtedly the fastest overall graphics accelerator on the planet, ATI regaining the crown they've not worn since GeForce 7800 GTX and G70 blew us all away back at the end of June. The performance crown, while not as important as it used to be, is a fine fitting one to wear proudly and X1800 XT does that straight out of the gate. The general rule is that if it's D3D9 and you're not CPU limited, it'll likely blow everything else away at the time of writing." Hexus

"The performance - where we see massive gains in F.E.A.R., sizable improvements in Far Cry and Splinter Cell: CT, and consistent CPU-bound performance to match 7800 GTX in mostly everything else - is undoubtedly mighty. Combine that with the image quality improvements and output connectivity available from the X1800 XT in terms of Avivo, the 6x AA carried over from R480 now with less performance hit, adaptive AA for improving alpha textures and rotation invariant anistropic texture filtering for basic excellent texture IQ, and you have a compelling consumer graphics product that almost demands you purchase it as soon as possible. ATI's considerable investment in a clockable new architecture on 90nm low-k has certainly paid off, despite well documented delays. Well worth the wait."

why were you laughing? :rolleyes:
if ATI gets these into the stores there is not a single reason for a comment like that. kudos to nVidia for putting that much preassure onto ATI, kudos for them to pull this off as return fire. a comment like yours is pure fanyboy trolling, dude, sorry. AT LEAST wait a month and see if they will have availability problems before shitting on them... if you can't buy cards by then I'll be all with you but give it a break until that happens!
 
wizzackr said:
"The X1800 XT is a beast, really. It's big, it's fast yes it is the new flagship in the graphics card arena. NVIDIA has been de-crowned on a pure performance level, period." GURU3D

"The basic architecture, clocks and memory size of the Radeon X1800 XT make it undoubtedly the fastest overall graphics accelerator on the planet, ATI regaining the crown they've not worn since GeForce 7800 GTX and G70 blew us all away back at the end of June. The performance crown, while not as important as it used to be, is a fine fitting one to wear proudly and X1800 XT does that straight out of the gate. The general rule is that if it's D3D9 and you're not CPU limited, it'll likely blow everything else away at the time of writing." Hexus

"The performance - where we see massive gains in F.E.A.R., sizable improvements in Far Cry and Splinter Cell: CT, and consistent CPU-bound performance to match 7800 GTX in mostly everything else - is undoubtedly mighty. Combine that with the image quality improvements and output connectivity available from the X1800 XT in terms of Avivo, the 6x AA carried over from R480 now with less performance hit, adaptive AA for improving alpha textures and rotation invariant anistropic texture filtering for basic excellent texture IQ, and you have a compelling consumer graphics product that almost demands you purchase it as soon as possible. ATI's considerable investment in a clockable new architecture on 90nm low-k has certainly paid off, despite well documented delays. Well worth the wait."

why were you laughing? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

"If you are an ATI fan, the X1800 and X1600 cards look to be worth the wait. If you are not an ATI fan, you will likely be better off purchasing an GeForce 7800 series card if you are a serious gamer." -HardOCP

"Overall though, we'd consider the GeForce 7800 GTX the "faster" all-around card in terms of general gaming performance." -HotHardware

"> Advanced Search > Your Search X1800XT >
We have found 0 items that match your search criteria." -NewEgg.com
 
tranCendenZ said:
Firingsquad is using the new 81.84 drivers for the FEAR demo, and yes the difference is much closer now for this demo:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1800_xt_xl/page15.asp
Note that the minimum framerate is actually higher on the Nvidia cards.

However, remember that Nvidia still has a 512mb 7800GTX coming (possibly before the x1800xt is even available for sale), and apparently the retail version of FEAR will be more NV-friendly than the demo. So this one game is not really too much of a concern IMO.
Click to expand...

thanks for the link, tranCendenZ - am reading it now.
 
tranCendenZ said:
"If you are an ATI fan, the X1800 and X1600 cards look to be worth the wait. If you are not an ATI fan, you will likely be better off purchasing an GeForce 7800 series card if you are a serious gamer." -HardOCP

"Overall though, we'd consider the GeForce 7800 GTX the "faster" all-around card in terms of general gaming performance." -HotHardware

"> Advanced Search > Your Search X1800XT >
We have found 0 items that match your search criteria." -NewEgg.com
Click to expand...

just to make sure i got my point across: anyone who laughs at a product like the new cards delivered by ATI today is the mere definition of a !!!!!!, period. availability is not a problem as of yet, so in dubio pro reo: wait until there IS shortages before judgeing that. just the fact you cannot buy the XT (which BTW is quoted to be available by Nov, 5 according to ATI) today does not make it a continuation of their shitty production issues with their x800 line, IMHO. in NO WAY was i referring to nVidias 7800 series as a worse product. i was ONLY asking for a remotey unbiased point of view. and *lol, ati" does not fit in there, really, which is why i felt like quoting some reviewers.
 
tranCendenZ said:
7800GT > X1800XL
Is it me or does this look like 6800GT vs. X800PRO all over again?
Click to expand...

No, it doesnt. This time its ATi with the features lead. The 6800GT was generally faster, and had more features. This time its not the case. The speed is very, close, and the XL has more features, and better image quality.

wizzackr said:
just to make sure i got my point across: anyone who laughs at a product like the new cards delivered by ATI today is the mere definition of a !!!!!!, period. availability is not a problem as of yet, so in dubio pro reo: wait until there IS shortages before judgeing that. just the fact you cannot buy the XT (which BTW is quoted to be available by Nov, 5 according to ATI) today does not make it a continuation of their shitty production issues with their x800 line, IMHO. in NO WAY was i referring to nVidias 7800 series as a worse product, but ONLY asking for a remotey unbiased point of view. and *lol, ati" does not fit in there, really.
Click to expand...

Easy with the logical thinking, it doesnt fly well most of the time...
 
furocious said:
Well even if ATi doesn't have any sort of advantage in the market they are defenitely forcing nVidia to work harder, and to constantly improve and add features. Win&Win
Click to expand...


This is by far the most intelligent thing i've read about the ATI vs Nvidia hoop-la. Both companies have their ebb and flow, neither are superior to the other, both have thie pros and cons, hardware and market share wise.

Competition between the 2 makes things better for us, the people who buy the products, each company is forced to one-up the other generating cash flow for them and smiles for us.

I wasn't on this forum when the FX5xxx series was released but i'm sure ATI fans were bombarding Nvidia fans i guess that's why the tables have turned ever since the 6XXX and 7800 series came out.
 
MartinX said:
...and from what I can see the 81.84 drivers nvidia has released today (what a coincidence...) eat up a chunk of that difference, they just gave me a 10% performance increase in FEAR mp demo.
Click to expand...


Look at how many people are already experiencing problems in other games with these drivers though...
 
wizzackr said:
just to make sure i got my point across: anyone who laughs at a product like the new cards delivered by ATI today is the mere definition of a !!!!!!, period. availability is not a problem as of yet, so in dubio pro reo: wait until there IS shortages before judgeing that. just the fact you cannot buy the XT (which BTW is quoted to be available by Nov, 5 according to ATI) today does not make it a continuation of their shitty production issues with their x800 line, IMHO. in NO WAY was i referring to nVidias 7800 series as a worse product. i was ONLY asking for a remotey unbiased point of view. and *lol, ati" does not fit in there, really, which is why i felt like quoting some reviewers.
Click to expand...
I'm far from a !!!!!!, actually I could care less. But LOL indeed at ATi's gigantic book of paper video cards. What's the point of launching a product without even LAUNCHING IT.
 
wizzackr said:
why were you laughing? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Paper numbers from a paper launch. That's why it's funny.

The GTX is STILL the fastest card you can buy.
 
I still would like to see these pieces of paper in retail stores.. or even etailers.


ati = teh laugh :p
 
Now my only problem is do i just get a X800XL right now or wait till the X1600XT comes out :(
 
Cali3350 said:
Now my only problem is do i just get a X800XL right now or wait till the X1600XT comes out :(
Click to expand...

I'd wait until there's a definitive price for the new X1X00 series and base your decision on that.
 
you figured ati would of waited till nov then announced this card. now we have wait and waiting sucks.

a big :-( to ati
 
I have had everything Radeon since Radeon 64MB. I have the X800 Pro now. ATI has dropped the ball again. All these "features" remind me of one word. "TruForm". Yeah. That was widely excepted. :rolleyes: The facts are in front of all fanATIcs. Nothing, and I MEAN NOTHING, is on the SHELVES TODAY!!! Best Buy, Compusa, Circuit City, Frys/Outpost.com, Computer Warehouse, etc.. None of these in Metro Detroit area have the X1800XL or the other card available. NONE. Were talking 50-60 Square Miles. Not a damn thing. (And Oakland County Michigan is one of the wealthiest in the nation.)

Oh, but wait, when the 7800 series was launched, all of them had at least 4 of each type of GTX/GT on their shelves. Sorry, waited so long to be let down again. Think I am going with the one that more developers use when making games. Especially since most Unreal Engine based games are developed on nVidia. And with games like UT 2007 and Gears of War favoring nVidia (Not to mention Doom 3 engined based games)
I would rather have the card that most developers use now. Course it doesn't help that I just purchased a 7800GT. First time I will have had an nVidia card in my own rig in the last 7 years of this hobby. And after the latest results, I have no hesitation about using this 7800GT for a long time.

~Snow
 
pandora's box said:
AA with HDR? Well with the x1800xl no one can seem to get HDR to work in Far Cry. I knew this would happen, ati gives us AA with HDR and no games support it. 3dc anyone?
Click to expand...

AA with HDR in FarCry is coming. Press were presented with a preview of this at ATI's Tech Day, they had FarCry running with the new patch with HDR and AA enabled, and it seemed very playable to me on an X1800 XT but I don't know what resolution it was at. This new patch will be released to the public when it is ready, I don't know the ETA.
 
Something people need to understand, the X1800 XL and X1600 XT are not bad performing video cards, they are on par with what NV has (the X1600 XT a little better), so if you purchase one you won't be dissapointed in your gameplay performance.

The main problem is availability right now.

You can purchase the competing cards widely right now and cheaper.
 
Goonigoogoo said:
I wasn't on this forum when the FX5xxx series was released but i'm sure ATI fans were bombarding Nvidia fans i guess that's why the tables have turned ever since the 6XXX and 7800 series came out.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is that most of these supposed NVIDIA fans were ATI fans at that time, thought they won’t admit to it now.
The have very selective memory and thoughts and seem to only be able to think in a one month span of history.
They sit around and argue over the internet about video cards and about how this sucks and that sucks contribute very little to life.
They are doing now what they did then only for the other team.
I find it very sad to say the least.
It really sucks to try and go to websites to get info on current and new tech, only to have to wade through pages and pages of mindless dribble these bitches spew out.

The facts are that both companies have great products and both companies force each other to further advance technology.
ATI’s new line will continue to force NVIDIA to one-up them and vise versa.

I find it funny that people bitch about ATI’s paper launches, when that is a practice done by EVERY company in EVERY field in EVERY country on this planet.
It is nothing new what so ever.

Just give ATI the time to get their product out the door and stop acting like a bunch of whiney ass spoiled bitches because you didn’t get it “right now.”
 
SnowBeast said:
I have had everything Radeon since Radeon 64MB. I have the X800 Pro now. ATI has dropped the ball again. All these "features" remind me of one word. "TruForm". Yeah. That was widely excepted. :rolleyes: The facts are in front of all fanATIcs. Nothing, and I MEAN NOTHING, is on the SHELVES TODAY!!! Best Buy, Compusa, Circuit City, Frys/Outpost.com, Computer Warehouse, etc.. None of these in Metro Detroit area have the X1800XL or the other card available. NONE. Were talking 50-60 Square Miles. Not a damn thing. (And Oakland County Michigan is one of the wealthiest in the nation.)

Oh, but wait, when the 7800 series was launched, all of them had at least 4 of each type of GTX/GT on their shelves. Sorry, waited so long to be let down again. Think I am going with the one that more developers use when making games. Especially since most Unreal Engine based games are developed on nVidia. And with games like UT 2007 and Gears of War favoring nVidia (Not to mention Doom 3 engined based games)
I would rather have the card that most developers use now. Course it doesn't help that I just purchased a 7800GT. First time I will have had an nVidia card in my own rig in the last 7 years of this hobby. And after the latest results, I have no hesitation about using this 7800GT for a long time.

~Snow
Click to expand...

Hey guess what, XL's have been around here for months. CompUSA, BB, and even Circuit City have them locally. BB even had them for $250 not too long ago. And not one 7800 card to be seen. There arent any XT's here either though, no high end cards. So you're opinion that GTX's are every where, and have been, is false.

Reminds you of Truform? Hardly. The better AF and HDR+AA can be used, today. Unlike Truform which needed to be coded for.
 
fallguy said:
Reminds you of Truform? Hardly. The better AF and HDR+AA can be used, today. Unlike Truform which needed to be coded for.
Click to expand...
He's talking about the X1 series, turd burgler.
 
"If you are an ATI fan, the X1800 and X1600 cards look to be worth the wait. If you are not an ATI fan, you will likely be better off purchasing an GeForce 7800 series card if you are a serious gamer." -HardOCP
hmm why didn't they compare ati's best video card? THE 1800XT!!!! NOT THE XL!!
 
Originally Posted by tranCendenZ

7800GT > X1800XL
Click to expand...

Only if you got a big green plate in front of your eyes. XL has better looking FSAA across the board (in playable settings), better looking AF, FSAA with FPbl HDR.
 
pandora's box said:
as far as that non angle dependent af goes? i'll give nvidia 1-2 months to release a AF mode thats angle independent for the geforce 6 and 7 series.
Click to expand...

Users will be pleased with that, they will get a more uniform image since not only the ground will shimmer, the tilted walls/ground will to :p
 
Inglix_the_Mad said:
I, for one, am not impressed thus far with 520. It was supposed to be a whole new chip, and it's obvious it's just another extension. At stock speeds it can't beat a GTX in much other than 3DMark, which is useless.

Still the numbers are close enough and it might still prod nVidia.

Good luck next time ATI...
Click to expand...

I see n00b is an appropriate title for you. Memory controller alone dictates the need for a new architecture. New architecture doesn't guarantee earth shattering performance increases versus the competition. It does provide a platform to address future API, app and hardware needs.

I, for one, am not surprised by all the BS going on. It happens with every product rev, same shit different day, different company Of course the parts are within a couple percentage points of one another. Only way a huge delta happens is when someone fucks up the architecture (GeForce FX/Radeon 9700 anyone?) This crap was going on back in the days of 3dfx and nVIDIA.

I'm either too wise or too sick of this BS to get caught up in it.
 
tranCendenZ said:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIy

7800GT > X1800XL
Is it me or does this look like 6800GT vs. X800PRO all over again? (Except this time the Nvidia part is much more widely available and $100 cheaper). Not a huge difference, but the 7800GT definitely seems to have the edge.

From some of the reviews, it also looks like the X1800XT has the edge over the 7800GTX, similar to the x800xtpe vs 6800U. Of course, just like last year the difference is not that huge and the x1800xt won't be available for over a month - plus we don't know the performance gains a 512mb 7800gtx will yield yet. And again, the 7800GTX will likely be ~$100 cheaper than the X1800XT due to the price drops from it being out so long.

Seems like history has repeated itself in terms of performance :)
Click to expand...

Where does the 7800GT have the edge? from the hardocp Review the only EDGE it has is that its avaiable =p otherwise the cards seemed pretty even while ATI had better IQ and some more features.
 
IM telling you we get the same crap all over the place. Take software for instance. They said that quake 4 was done. Well its not in my best buy, walmart, frys. No etialer has it yet. Hell I bet that the pics we have seen were all done by hand and they havent even started coding it yet. Prolly been waiting on ATI to start with the new bd.



LOL JK This place is bad.
 
Cali3350 said:
Now my only problem is do i just get a X800XL right now or wait till the X1600XT comes out :(
Click to expand...

huh?

WTF is the point in that? those cards are no better than the 6800GT you have now? just overclock the thing to ultra speeds and save for a proper upgrade.
 
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