History behind Windows and the man who should have been Bill Gates

[Mazzspeed]

And this is just more of discounting the Windows ecosystem. I find that extremely odd in a place like this forum that's so focused on products of this ecosystem. Places like this keep people "trapped" in Windows far beyond my ability to do so.

I've made my point, it's a reasonable point and I'm not going to argue it because you refuse to accept a world beyond Microsoft.

 

[ManofGod]

Out of all the PC users, very few actually use RGB keyboards from Walmart. If you want to use an RGB keyboard from Walmart, use Windows. However don't be under the impression that Microsoft are going to continue supporting Windows the way you believe it should be just because you like playing games.

Mac users don't appear to be bothered by the lack of RGB keyboards.

Says the person who clearly has no understanding of PCs, PC gaming or the fact that those keyboards at Walmart are, wait for it....... The EXACT same ones you buy at, GASP, Newegg.

Let me guess, you think Corsair, Crucial and Kingston are no name nobodies, amirite?

 

[ManofGod]

I've made my point, it's a reasonable point and I'm not going to argue it because you refuse to accept a world beyond Microsoft.

You have made you point that you have no understanding, that's right. Amazing that people who have an actual agenda cannot accept things as they are, as in Windows is going nowhere and is still the best Desktop available at this time.

 

[heatlesssun]

I've made my point, it's a reasonable point and I'm not going to argue it because you refuse to accept a world beyond Microsoft.

Again a total denial of what the Windows ecosystem really is. I understand that I'm not an average PC user, that's not relevant to point I'm going to make. In the last three months I've bought an Vive Pro headset, a 2 TB WD SSD, Corsair K95 Platinum keyboard, Corsair Void Pro headset and Corsair ST100 headset stand. Not one Microsoft product and the reason for these purchases and what you call "refusing to accept a world beyond Microsoft", Steam.

I've said it over and over and over and over and for some bizarre reason folks like you aren't getting obvious truth. Steam ties people to Windows well beyond Microsoft's ability to do so. That's the power in an ecosystem.

 

[heatlesssun]

You have made you point that you have no understanding, that's right. Amazing that people who have an actual agenda cannot accept things as they are, as in Windows is going nowhere and is still the best Desktop available at this time.

It's just crazy. You point out that even a place like Walmart now has on its shelves exotic gaming hardware that only makes sense under Windows, but hey, I'm biased and refuse to live outside of the world of Microsoft. That's flat out nonsense.

However good or bad Windows is, there's nothing on the desktop side that touches its ecosystem. As long as Linux folks want to argue that the sky is blue, hell, Microsoft couldn't hope for better at least in this case.

 

[B00nie]

It's just crazy. You point out that even a place like Walmart now has on its shelves exotic gaming hardware that only makes sense under Windows, but hey, I'm biased and refuse to live outside of the world of Microsoft. That's flat out nonsense.

However good or bad Windows is, there's nothing on the desktop side that touches its ecosystem. As long as Linux folks want to argue that the sky is blue, hell, Microsoft couldn't hope for better at least in this case.

It's just crazy how you don't understand that it's complete madness for one company to have a near monopoly on gaming and gaming hardware. Nobody benefits from that, not even yourself (unless you're being paid by MS like I have long suspected).

Recent benchmarks showed that Ubuntu beats Windows10 in many gaming benchmarks. Outside of Vulkan/OpenGL native benchmarks, even new DX libraries for Wine have made even DX11 games playable on wine with extremely small performance differences.

 

[ChadD]

And this is just more of discounting the Windows ecosystem. I find that extremely odd in a place like this forum that's so focused on products of this ecosystem. Places like this keep people "trapped" in Windows far beyond my ability to do so.

You always miss the point completely.

The keyboard manufacturers your talking about choose to not release a driver ? Drivers are not difficult. Its not like a company making windows drivers can't easily make mac or linux drivers. The code is going to be 99% identical. Sure perhaps today you aren't going to get Razor linux drivers (ok there are non razor razor drivers for linux that work just fine but that isn't the point)... but its not like it would be rocket science for them to put one out. If Google for instance decided to start selling ChromeOS desktops, or gaming ChromeOS devices where it makes sense for them... they will recompile their drivers and in a few hours.

You keep going on about some fantastic Ecosystem like MS bought and paid for it. Software manufacturers don't pay royalties to MS... they are not owned by MS... and if you knew anything about software developers and coding in general you would realize that the last 10 years the entire industry has been retooling their tools and killing their old single platform code with fire.

I posted a link earlier in this thread... MS themselves have finally caved and have actually made their C++ compiler compliant with actual C++. For years MS had/was pulling their MO BS move of sort of not really supporting standards. Their C++ compiler did a bunch of crap its own way... there is only one logical reason for them to be doing that. (there excuses are all BS as small project compilers managed to easily conform to C++98 C++03 C++11, C++14, C++17) What they where doing was making it really expensive for software developers to publish their software on the Mac (or any other OS) before compiling their C++ software for another system they first had to go and find all the crap they had to code non C++ compliant to satisfy the BS MS compiler and change it. This made cross platform a pain in the ass. THEN the iPhone happened. We all know what happened then.... a market opened up for actual working cross platform compilers where the coders wouldn't have to edit thousands of lines of code to compile for X or Y system. Compilers like clang and other cross platform compilers are now used by almost everyone even if they aren't specifically building cross platform products.

Software is not written in some magic "Windows Code" every major program in the world is written in the major languages. C++ C# Java Python go rust .... those are not windows specific. If you write a program in GO you can compile it for whatever system you want. Heatle a large number of windows software developers don't even use windows. lol

https://www.digitalocean.com/commun...tables-for-multiple-platforms-on-ubuntu-16-04

Here is an example for you. This explains how to compile your GO software for Android, darwin, freebsd, linux, Windows, plan9, Solaris, amd64, arm, mips, power64. The same code can be compiled for whatever target system you want. That doesn't mean that if Adobe has a GO project they are going to compile for Solaris and power... but they could in minutes.

The windows ecosystem is only what you think it is because the majority of machines are windows machines (no one has ever said other wise) and software companies prefer to simply offer support for as little as required. Still having said that a ton of major pro software has been cross platformed the last few years. Windows/Mac has always been well supported but linux support is growing because its simply not as difficult as it was when the industry leading compilers where not great at cross platform compilation... and MS using their EEE in regard to their own compilers was an issue.

 

[heatlesssun]

It's just crazy how you don't understand that it's complete madness for one company to have a near monopoly on gaming and gaming hardware. Nobody benefits from that, not even yourself (unless you're being paid by MS like I have long suspected).

Recent benchmarks showed that Ubuntu beats Windows10 in many gaming benchmarks. Outside of Vulkan/OpenGL native benchmarks, even new DX libraries for Wine have made even DX11 games playable on wine with extremely small performance differences.

Do you ever bother to read the content on [H]ardOCP? Not this forum, I'm talking about the actual review and editorial content on [H]ardOCP? When was the last time there was a single mention of macOS or Linux in ANY of the gaming performance or gaming hardware reviews? For the last three years, this site like virtually all of the rest that cater to enthusiast PC gamers, all of the content related to gaming was reviewed under Windows 10. Get off your high horse and look at the real world.

 

[B00nie]

Do you ever bother to read the content on [H]ardOCP? Not this forum, I'm talking about the actual review and editorial content on [H]ardOCP? When was the last time there was a single mention of macOS or Linux in ANY of the gaming performance or gaming hardware reviews? For the last three years, this site like virtually all of the rest that cater to enthusiast PC gamers, all of the content related to gaming was reviewed under Windows 10. Get off your high horse and look at the real world.

So since a few billion flies like shit, I should like it too? Nope. That logic doesn't work.

 

[heatlesssun]

The keyboard manufacturers your talking about choose to not release a driver ? Drivers are not difficult. Its not like a company making windows drivers can't easily make mac or linux drivers. The code is going to be 99% identical. Sure perhaps today you aren't going to get Razor linux drivers (ok there are non razor razor drivers for linux that work just fine but that isn't the point)... but its not like it would be rocket science for them to put one out. If Google for instance decided to start selling ChromeOS desktops, or gaming ChromeOS devices where it makes sense for them... they will recompile their drivers and in a few hours.

Ok, but what does any of this have to do with a person who simply wants to use what they paid for?

You keep going on about some fantastic Ecosystem like MS bought and paid for it. Software manufacturers don't pay royalties to MS... they are not owned by MS... and if you knew anything about software developers and coding in general you would realize that the last 10 years the entire industry has been retooling their tools and killing their old single platform code with fire.

LOL! Go to Amazon, search for "gaming PC" or "gaming computer". Over 10k results and in the search filter you get options for RAM, storage, GPU, CPU, etc. In the OS section of the filter, guess what? Windows and that's it. Type in "Linux gaming PC" and you get EIGHT results. But hey preach a whole lot nonsense about how I don't understand software development and coding and ignore obvious reality.

Software is not written in some magic "Windows Code" every major program in the world is written in the major languages. C++ C# Java Python go rust .... those are not windows specific. If you write a program in GO you can compile it for whatever system you want. Heatle a large number of windows software developers don't even use windows. lol

I work at a mega bank, we use all of this stuff, tons of Linux on servers. I'm currently working on a team developing a financial modeling system written in Python that runs on Linux. For some reason you constantly ignore reality. I clearly understand the importance of open source and Linux and cross platform development. And this same institution that uses all this stack is migrating 200k desktops to Windows 10. Fortunately most people are practical and try to use the right tool for the right job.

 

[heatlesssun]

So since a few billion flies like shit, I should like it too? Nope. That logic doesn't work.

Last weekend we had the carpets cleaned. So I'm my upstairs bedroom office when one of the guys walks in and I could see the expression on his face, "What this hell is all this?". He latter and asks where I got my K95 Platinum keyboard and I told him Best Buy. Guys like you are always talking how average folks don't build gaming PCs and whatnot and that's very true. Hell do you average people have even seen high end modern gaming PC with a Rift and Vive Pro and five monitors hooked up to it? The average PC user doesn't even know this "shit" exists.

 

[Chuklr]

When the [H]ard|OCP starts including Linux OS gaming in the reviews the tide will have turned. IMHO.

 

[heatlesssun]

When the [H]ard|OCP starts including Linux OS gaming in the reviews the tide will have turned. IMHO.

Before that happens a person will have to be able to easily go to Amazon or Walmart or where ever and actually buy a gaming PC with Linux on it.

 

[B00nie]

Last weekend we had the carpets cleaned. So I'm my upstairs bedroom office when one of the guys walks in and I could see the expression on his face, "What this hell is all this?". He latter and asks where I got my K95 Platinum keyboard and I told him Best Buy. Guys like you are always talking how average folks don't build gaming PCs and whatnot and that's very true. Hell do you average people have even seen high end modern gaming PC with a Rift and Vive Pro and five monitors hooked up to it? The average PC user doesn't even know this "shit" exists.

No reasonable person will invest that kind of money to gaming gear, period. Unless you happen to make 6 figures and it doesn't start with 1. Me personally, while I could afford that gear I just don't have interest in gaming anymore. I ruined decades of my life playing games when I could have been self improving instead.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

I ruined decades of my life playing games when I could have been self improving instead.

And now, instead of self-improving yourself, you're here amongst the rest of us in yet another Windows vs Linux thread which is desperately masquerading as something else.

/me had to get in before the lock...

 

[B00nie]

And now, instead of self-improving yourself, you're here amongst the rest of us in yet another Windows vs Linux thread which is desperately masquerading as something else.

/me had to get in before the lock...

Heh, replying the forum once or twice a day takes maybe 10 minutes of my life. Gaming used to take 8 hours a day at worst.

 

[heatlesssun]

No reasonable person will invest that kind of money to gaming gear, period. Unless you happen to make 6 figures and it doesn't start with 1. Me personally, while I could afford that gear I just don't have interest in gaming anymore. I ruined decades of my life playing games when I could have been self improving instead.

So you're the paid shill. The the content on this site is focused on high PC gaming and doesn't cover Linux. This site covers topics that are of natural interest to me. You're just insulting people in a place they'd naturally come to if they're interested in PC gaming.

 

[B00nie]

So you're the paid shill. The the content on this site is focused on high PC gaming and doesn't cover Linux. This site covers topics that are of natural interest to me. You're just insulting people in a place they'd naturally come to if they're interested in PC gaming.

Uh, paid by whom? The Mensa perhaps? FYI they don't pay people to advertise on forums. You represent the 1% of HardOcp visitors who represent 1% of the general population. Yet you seem to be extremely self centered and seem to think that what you do and how you spend your money is the norm. Wake up already.

 

[heatlesssun]

Uh, paid by whom? The Mensa perhaps? FYI they don't pay people to advertise on forums. You represent the 1% of HardOcp visitors who represent 1% of the general population. Yet you seem to be extremely self centered and seem to think that what you do and how you spend your money is the norm. Wake up already.

This site caters to PC enthusiasts. They review things like 4k gaming and one of the reasons I got into VR came from the positive reviews on the tech on this site. I never said anything about average or normal, I said that this place covers technology that interests me. Clearly you don't read the content on [H]ardOCP because what you're saying doesn't fucking make any sense given the content there.

Like playing Crysis 3 in 4k on something like a 1080Ti. An article about older games like this on [H] last week. Yeah, 1%.

 

[ManofGod]

Uh, paid by whom? The Mensa perhaps? FYI they don't pay people to advertise on forums. You represent the 1% of HardOcp visitors who represent 1% of the general population. Yet you seem to be extremely self centered and seem to think that what you do and how you spend your money is the norm. Wake up already.

Dude, why are you taking your hatred of Microsoft so personal? So personal that you don't even see reality when it is on your face.

The majority of the people here use Windows 10 and definitely use it for gaming. The fact that you cannot control yourself when it comes to gaming is not our problem. Maybe go see an addiction counselor?

 

[ChadD]

Ok, but what does any of this have to do with a person who simply wants to use what they paid for?

Fortunately most people are practical and try to use the right tool for the right job.

The fact that the entire industry could easily abandon windows has nothing to do with anything right now for the average consumer no. You simply keep yelling Ecosystem ecosystem raw raw raw... like MS has some multi billion dollar IP no one could touch. Dude that ecosystem is just software that can be recompiled for any system in a matter of days if the industry decides MS needs to go. That was the only point. Your stnadard but the MS ecoysystem is too powerful argument is silly. That was my only point.

Before that happens a person will have to be able to easily go to Amazon or Walmart or where ever and actually buy a gaming PC with Linux on it.

You can easily buy Linux machines from Dell and Amazon. You can easily buy non-graming ChromeOS machines from Dell Amazon Best buy Walmart. I hate to break it to you PC gaming is not the major driver of PC sales. Calling yourself a hardcore gamer already makes you part of a pretty small segment of the market. Yes no doubt millions of GPUs are sold every year.... although if we are all being honest. The last 2-3 years 3/4 of them are going to miners, and perhaps 5-10% are going to people using them for 3D modeling and other non gaming uses. If you count yourself as one of the true hardcore... dual 1080 sli every VR headset made type people your a small sliver of a small sliver of the market.

So you're the paid shill. The the content on this site is focused on high PC gaming and doesn't cover Linux. This site covers topics that are of natural interest to me. You're just insulting people in a place they'd naturally come to if they're interested in PC gaming.

This site has always been a hardware site first... one dedicated to overclocking on day one. Gaming is a covered topic in the news... and games are used in benchmarks. However look at Kyles sections on the main page: GPU- Video cards, VR, Motherboards, CPU, Cooling, PSU, Sound, SSD, Misc. Nine subsections and only one of them you could really argue is mainly about gaming... VR and even then the section covers VR hardware and software which although mainly gaming, still covers things like Hololens which is not a gaming product. Sure Kyle and his team post gaming stories in the news... but they post far more hardware and general tech industry news bits. Heck they even spend time posting about things like Star Wars. I would say [H] is just a good all around geek site.

You get to call [H] a "gaming site" the day Kyle posts a video game review. A performance break down of new games is not the same thing as covering the actual game. Kyle may say I like this game or this game was fun... but he doesn't do game reviews. He does hardware reviews and benchmarks that hardware using games. Even non hardcore gamers find his reviews useful because he uses a sound review method, and real world results.

PS no one cares if Kyle uses windows or mac or beos or bsd or linux. He is reviewing hardware that is what we care about in regards to Kyles articles. With that in mind it make sense that he reviews using stock windows 10... as that is what the manufacturers are building drivers for. Although I would find it interesting if Kyle ever does some linux performance stuff... its not really his thing, we have sites like www.phoronix.com for that, those reviews for now end up being more about the driver software then the actual hardware, as the last few years that is where all the improvements for Linux gaming have been.

 

[heatlesssun]

like MS has some multi billion dollar IP no one could touch.

Windows is a multi billion dollar IP that to date no one has come close to touching on the desktop. Maybe some day but not today.

Dude that ecosystem is just software that can be recompiled for any system in a matter of days if the industry decides MS needs to go.

​

Sure, everyone will for instance just recompile their VR titles under Linux in a few days and done. Steam VR for Linux has been in beta for over a year, that's considerably more than a couple a days.

Your stnadard but the MS ecoysystem is too powerful argument is silly. That was my only point.

Right, it's silly to point out that virtually everything for PCs is Windows compatible. It's silly to point out that people might get pissed when they spent money and run into compatibility issues. ​

You can easily buy Linux machines from Dell and Amazon.

I just checked out dell.com and on the US homepage there's this:

No option for Linux on that G5 15.

You can easily buy non-graming ChromeOS machines from Dell Amazon Best buy Walmart. I hate to break it to you PC gaming is not the major driver of PC sales.

Well sure you can. But next to those ChromeOS machines are even more Windows devices and a dedicated section for PC gaming hardware. Places like Walmart and Best Buy aren't dedicating space for something that isn't generating sales.

However look at Kyles sections on the main page: GPU- Video cards, VR, Motherboards, CPU, Cooling, PSU, Sound, SSD, Misc. Nine subsections and only one of them you could really argue is mainly about gaming... VR and even then the section covers VR hardware and software which although mainly gaming, still covers things like Hololens which is not a gaming product. Sure Kyle and his team post gaming stories in the news... but they post far more hardware and general tech industry news bits. Heck they even spend time posting about things like Star Wars. I would say [H] is just a good all around geek site.

So if such an all around geek site where's the Linux testing? [H] has done some reviews of older games on new hardware running on Windows 10 the last couple of weeks. I have a couple of the games they tested, fired up Crysis 3. Noticed I was getting WAY higher framerates than the article noted. Realized I HAVE SLI! Went back to the original [H] PC performance review of Crysis 3 from 5 years ago, and yep, Crysis 3 has some decent SLI scaling.

Sure there's a general tech aspect to this site but the in house testing and review content is clearly gaming focused. A great gaming PC is a great PC for tons of tasks. If you have a gaming PC that has four monitors and 2 VR HMDs plugged into it, it'll handle all those average PC tasks like a champ.

PS no one cares if Kyle uses windows or mac or beos or bsd or linux. He is reviewing hardware that is what we care about in regards to Kyles articles.

​

This makes absolutely no sense. Like the reviews I just mentioned about older games on modern hardware. You can't just do those on macOS or Linux or whatever. [H] will not be reviewing the GTX 1180 under macOS or Linux. Virtually every review site testing those cards for gaming will do so only under Windows 10. ​

​

With that in mind it make sense that he reviews using stock windows 10... as that is what the manufacturers are building drivers for. Although I would find it interesting if Kyle ever does some linux performance stuff... its not really his thing, we have sites like www.phoronix.com for that, those reviews for now end up being more about the driver software then the actual hardware, as the last few years that is where all the improvements for Linux gaming have been.

I'm a Phoronix reader, Michael Larabel did about the only professional review of Steam VR under Linux I've ever seen. I actually used his information to setup Steam VR under Linux last summer. He doesn't even much mention VR anymore and if you read his take on Steam VR Linux you'd know why. It was pointless a year ago and even more pointless now.

I like Phoronix but it's not much a site for practical gaming even for Linux. Gamingonlinux.com is the best Linux I know, I read it regularly as well. But very little real world scientific game testing even there.

 

[ManofGod]

The fact that the entire industry could easily abandon windows has nothing to do with anything right now for the average consumer no. You simply keep yelling Ecosystem ecosystem raw raw raw... like MS has some multi billion dollar IP no one could touch. Dude that ecosystem is just software that can be recompiled for any system in a matter of days if the industry decides MS needs to go. That was the only point. Your stnadard but the MS ecoysystem is too powerful argument is silly. That was my only point.



You can easily buy Linux machines from Dell and Amazon. You can easily buy non-graming ChromeOS machines from Dell Amazon Best buy Walmart. I hate to break it to you PC gaming is not the major driver of PC sales. Calling yourself a hardcore gamer already makes you part of a pretty small segment of the market. Yes no doubt millions of GPUs are sold every year.... although if we are all being honest. The last 2-3 years 3/4 of them are going to miners, and perhaps 5-10% are going to people using them for 3D modeling and other non gaming uses. If you count yourself as one of the true hardcore... dual 1080 sli every VR headset made type people your a small sliver of a small sliver of the market.



This site has always been a hardware site first... one dedicated to overclocking on day one. Gaming is a covered topic in the news... and games are used in benchmarks. However look at Kyles sections on the main page: GPU- Video cards, VR, Motherboards, CPU, Cooling, PSU, Sound, SSD, Misc. Nine subsections and only one of them you could really argue is mainly about gaming... VR and even then the section covers VR hardware and software which although mainly gaming, still covers things like Hololens which is not a gaming product. Sure Kyle and his team post gaming stories in the news... but they post far more hardware and general tech industry news bits. Heck they even spend time posting about things like Star Wars. I would say [H] is just a good all around geek site.

You get to call [H] a "gaming site" the day Kyle posts a video game review. A performance break down of new games is not the same thing as covering the actual game. Kyle may say I like this game or this game was fun... but he doesn't do game reviews. He does hardware reviews and benchmarks that hardware using games. Even non hardcore gamers find his reviews useful because he uses a sound review method, and real world results.

PS no one cares if Kyle uses windows or mac or beos or bsd or linux. He is reviewing hardware that is what we care about in regards to Kyles articles. With that in mind it make sense that he reviews using stock windows 10... as that is what the manufacturers are building drivers for. Although I would find it interesting if Kyle ever does some linux performance stuff... its not really his thing, we have sites like www.phoronix.com for that, those reviews for now end up being more about the driver software then the actual hardware, as the last few years that is where all the improvements for Linux gaming have been.

PS: If no ones cares what Kyle uses for an OS, then they could not care less about the results he gets from all his testing. After all, without a basis, the results are not relevant.

 

[ChadD]

PS: If no ones cares what Kyle uses for an OS, then they could not care less about the results he gets from all his testing. After all, without a basis, the results are not relevant.

WTH is that supposed to mean.

Did Kyle release an operating system review I haven't read ?

No why would I care what version of windows or macos or linux or bsd Kyle runs as long as his tests use the same OS for the HARDWARE he is reviewing.

Kyle hasn't ever released a software review that I remember. Closest thing is when he compares how Hardware performs under some new latest greatest game. He isn't reviewing the software.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

Then this place would become Soft[OCP] as in Soft Over-Compensating Page or something similar.

 

[Mazzspeed]

You have made you point that you have no understanding, that's right. Amazing that people who have an actual agenda cannot accept things as they are, as in Windows is going nowhere and is still the best Desktop available at this time.

Calm down and stop assuming rubbish. It's an operating system, I have no agenda whatsoever and made a legitimate comment.

If you want to believe in a future filled with Windows as you now know it, good for you. Personally, I see the writing on the wall. Such a comment has nothing to do with some agenda, I couldn't care less what operating system you use.

The aggression when making any OS related statement in these forums is stunning.

 

[heatlesssun]

Calm down and stop assuming rubbish. It's an operating system, I have no agenda whatsoever and made a legitimate comment.

If you want to believe in a future filled with Windows as you now know it, good for you. Personally, I see the writing on the wall. Such a comment has nothing to do with some agenda, I couldn't care less what operating system you use.

The aggression when making any OS related statement in these forums is stunning.

If or when Windows on the client desktop fails, then so be it. What I and others are saying is that's not likely to happen when there's so much support for Windows across such a wide variety of hardware and software that currently has no equivalent on other platforms.

What folks like you constantly ignore is that most would be perfectly willing to throw Windows away IF there were something better and come at least someone close to the level of the Windows ecosystem. It's that simple and yet for some reason the most simple thing goes plaid sometimes.

 

[Mazzspeed]

If or when Windows on the client desktop fails, then so be it. What I and others are saying is that's not likely to happen when there's so much support for Windows across such a wide variety of hardware and software that currently has no equivalent on other platforms.

What folks like you constantly ignore is that most would be perfectly willing to throw Windows away IF there were something better and come at least someone close to the level of the Windows ecosystem. It's that simple and yet for some reason the most simple thing goes plaid sometimes.

'Folks?!'

Just like you I'm interested in computing, it's that simple. There's no need to slot people into classes based around their belief's.

What you constantly fail to consider, what you constantly ignore, is the fact that very, very few people use a PC the way you do. As I've stated before, all operating systems have so called ecosystems, the only thing that matters is whether that ecosystem suits the individual. Most average users running Windows don't need literally anything Windows is offering them and could get by just fine under a number of alternate solutions.

Most of the time such individuals get by just fine achieving their daily tasks using mobile devices running iOS or the most popular OS globally, being Android. You're also failing to consider that we're discussing a possible, but hypothetical future without Microsoft as the dominant desktop OS. No one's discussing the present. If Microsoft, hypothetically but possibly speaking, shifted their entire OS to a cloud based solution and developers wern't happy with the solution you can count on the fact that they will begin to support alternate operating systems that provide them with the kind of platform their customers expect.

 

[B00nie]

This site caters to PC enthusiasts. They review things like 4k gaming and one of the reasons I got into VR came from the positive reviews on the tech on this site. I never said anything about average or normal, I said that this place covers technology that interests me. Clearly you don't read the content on [H]ardOCP because what you're saying doesn't fucking make any sense given the content there.

Like playing Crysis 3 in 4k on something like a 1080Ti. An article about older games like this on [H] last week. Yeah, 1%.

Yeah VR users are an extreme minority even on [H] let alone general population. 4k, same thing. Most people (current audience included) have no intention of sinking the amount of money you seem to do in gaming. Still you're acting like your niche needs would be what everyone else needs. Wrong.

 

[ManofGod]

Calm down and stop assuming rubbish. It's an operating system, I have no agenda whatsoever and made a legitimate comment.

If you want to believe in a future filled with Windows as you now know it, good for you. Personally, I see the writing on the wall. Such a comment has nothing to do with some agenda, I couldn't care less what operating system you use.

The aggression when making any OS related statement in these forums is stunning.

If the writing is on the wall then, if Windows dies, steam dies with it, along with Ubisoft, EA, GOG and all those other games that folks play that they have owned for a long, long time. The Linux Desktop is dead, as nice as it is and will not be taking it's place. Also, Mac OS will not be doing that either.

The writing is not on the wall and Windows is not going anywhere, as much as people wish it to be so. (They never are able to think through to the actual consequences to the end of that, if that were to ever happen.

 

[Frobozz]

If the writing is on the wall then, if Windows dies, steam dies with it, along with Ubisoft, EA, GOG and all those other games that folks play that they have owned for a long, long time. The Linux Desktop is dead, as nice as it is and will not be taking it's place. Also, Mac OS will not be doing that either.

The writing is not on the wall and Windows is not going anywhere, as much as people wish it to be so. (They never are able to think through to the actual consequences to the end of that, if that were to ever happen.

Since we're predicting the future. What do you (and heatlesssun) think is going to happen?

(I know these threads can make every reply seem sharp and antagonistic, so please take this as a genuine question. I'd like to hear what your view of where computing and Windows is going.)

 

[heatlesssun]

Since we're predicting the future. What do you (and heatlesssun) think is going to happen?

(I know these threads can make every reply seem sharp and antagonistic, so please take this as a genuine question. I'd like to hear what your view of where computing and Windows is going.)

The most powerful thing about Windows is its hardware and software support. No one has really recreated that support in other desktop OSes. With the rise of mobile fewer people need that kind of desktop support and obviously the PC market is shrinking relative to mobile but I think the absolute numbers of PC will remain mostly flat to a small decline over foreseeable future. The PC market that remains will gravitate to higher end wants and needs. So fewer and fewer cheap PC but some growth in things like gaming, ultra portables, 2 in 1s, workstations, etc.

I'm not saying that Windows will survive forever but I don't think it becomes irrelevant until something somehow replaces the hardware and software support of Windows. Maybe ChromeOS, maybe more and more cloud and web based apps and services. Maybe smartphones become so powerful that they can run powerful desktop applications when hooked to a large screen, etc.

 

[B00nie]

Since we're predicting the future. What do you (and heatlesssun) think is going to happen?

(I know these threads can make every reply seem sharp and antagonistic, so please take this as a genuine question. I'd like to hear what your view of where computing and Windows is going.)

One can only hope MS will reap what they sow. But the reality is that the vast majority of consumers are so stupid that they don't understand they shouldn't continue using Windows.

 

[ChadD]

One can only hope MS will reap what they sow. But the reality is that the vast majority of consumers are so stupid that they don't understand they shouldn't continue using Windows.

Pretty much.

Everyone was going to delete their facebook profiles a month ago as well... seems they didn't.

 

[B00nie]

Pretty much.

Everyone was going to delete their facebook profiles a month ago as well... seems they didn't.

I wouldn't know or care for that matter. Unfortunately even my own family members still use social media despite my warnings. Its like having addicts for family.

 

[jardows]

One can only hope MS will reap what they sow. But the reality is that the vast majority of consumers are so stupid that they don't understand they shouldn't continue using Windows.

You're starting to sound like a politician. The very people you need to win over to adopt your platform, you are standing there and accusing of being too stupid to understand how wonderful your platform is! No one ever made progress in a movement by appealing only to the intellectual elites - they had to appeal to the masses. Doesn't mean you have to dumb it down, I mean the writings of Locke and the like were quite intellectual, but appealed to the masses in the colonies and sparked a revolution birthing the USA. But if the prevailing attitude in the community is that the masses are too stupid to get why they need GNU/Linux as their desktop OS, then the masses will never adopt GNU/Linux as their desktop OS.

 

[heatlesssun]

You're starting to sound like a politician. The very people you need to win over to adopt your platform, you are standing there and accusing of being too stupid to understand how wonderful your platform is! No one ever made progress in a movement by appealing only to the intellectual elites - they had to appeal to the masses. Doesn't mean you have to dumb it down, I mean the writings of Locke and the like were quite intellectual, but appealed to the masses in the colonies and sparked a revolution birthing the USA. But if the prevailing attitude in the community is that the masses are too stupid to get why they need GNU/Linux as their desktop OS, then the masses will never adopt GNU/Linux as their desktop OS.

The flaw in this reasoning this far more basic. A lot of people chose to use Windows because it supports their needs. I'm not a Linux expert but I know it doesn't support my needs. Period. All of his preaching when his alternative isn't even an alternative is pointless.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

Do I need to post the RoboCop "BEHAVE YOURSELVES!!!" clip yet again?

Fine.

 

[jardows]

The flaw in this reasoning this far more basic. A lot of people chose to use Windows because it supports their needs. I'm not a Linux expert but I know it doesn't support my needs. Period. All of his preaching when his alternative isn't even an alternative is pointless.

Which can be brought back to the OP. The "technically superior" product, or the "first product" is not necessarily the best product to use. Had Gates not done what he did in the 1980's, we would be in a world of hurt in the Personal Computing world. IBM didn't care about computers in the home, Amiga and BE were horribly mismanaged, and Apple's closed systems only found minimal appeal. It is the P.T. Barnums, Henry Fords, and Bill Gates of the world that give us the products we use on a regular basis that impact our lives, be it entertainment, transportation, or computers!

 

[B00nie]

You're starting to sound like a politician. The very people you need to win over to adopt your platform, you are standing there and accusing of being too stupid to understand how wonderful your platform is! No one ever made progress in a movement by appealing only to the intellectual elites - they had to appeal to the masses. Doesn't mean you have to dumb it down, I mean the writings of Locke and the like were quite intellectual, but appealed to the masses in the colonies and sparked a revolution birthing the USA. But if the prevailing attitude in the community is that the masses are too stupid to get why they need GNU/Linux as their desktop OS, then the masses will never adopt GNU/Linux as their desktop OS.

You got it wrong. Windows is excellent in most things, it's Microsofts dominance and abuse of consumers that should be fought against. And market share/money are the only weapons.