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High-End SFF

T

toxikneedle

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
78
Hey guys, I need to build a SFF (space problems and stuff) and I want to get a 4400 X2 plus a high end card, lets say 7800, 2 gigs of ram etc. Anyways, I want to know why the current mATX mobos aren't good enough for that. No one seems to be building high end systems in mATX cases. I don't care about overclocking my cpu, don't want to anyways. And I know heat isnt a big issue in the case I want to get. So it seems to be the bad selection of matx mobos out now.

What should I look for in a mATX mobo suited for my system? Is anything that's coming out in the future good enough for me? Also, I noticed that mATX mobos have SATA 1.5GB/s while ATX Nforce4 Ultras have SATA 3.0Gb/s, does this affect the speed of HD loading and work, etc?

P.S. I'm only buying this system in a couple of months, so I have time to wait. I really don't want to waste my money and have the motherboard bottleneck the rest of my parts...

Here's the list of my planned parts:
CPU: X2 4400
MOBO: ?
PSU: OCZ ModStream 520
GPU: 7800GTX+
HD: Raptor 74Gb
CASE: Aspire X-Qpack
 
One, Hard drives can't even saturate the old SATA standard, much less SATA-II (except when reading from cache, which is often only 8mb), so you really don't have to worry about that. ;) Why not get an SN25P? It can hold all of what you said (and more, 3 HD slots total including floppy spot) and will keep everything cool. The SN25P is what you're looking for, not the qpack :cool:
 
Currently toxikneedle is correct, the only SFF system that has the ultra chipset onboard is the Shuttle.

Maybe in the upcoming months we will see ATI RS482 boards, and maybe even Nforce4 Ultra mATX motherboards, but currently your options are limited.

Also the X-QPack is far from SFF, call it Medium form factor as that case is rather large compared to a shuttle. If you have a fry's around head down there and check it out. It may be what you are looking for, but it is nowhere near as small as the shuttle. It can be much quieter though and maybe be loaded down with more components (but more components mean more heat).
 
i dont think shuttles are the definition of sff, the qpack still qualifies as sff. it's still small enough to carry with one hand, isnt it? i think its dimensions r like an inch or 2 longer in each way vs a shuttle, but thats not that much, you dont really NEED it to b that small. but i admit it would be nice if there were more options for matx motherboards, currently theres only one that is based on nf4, not ultra.
 
Well the reason I don't want a SN25P is because of the PSU, my friend has it and although his system runs stable (FX-55, 7800) the rails are on the low side... and it's only 350W. Also I don't like barebones, I dont want to be limited to shuttle's mobos and PSUs, etc. And also, although not a serious issue, I like windows and shuttle is all closed in... but nothing too serious like I said.

Anyways, space isnt an issue and I'm aware that Qpack isn't the smallest SFF, I really don't mind. I mean I could get a mid-tower or whatever, I'm not that limited on space.... I just really want an SFF badly.

About the Nforce 4 Ultra, I'm not a mobo guru, I really want to know what is it about the nf4 ultra that makes it good for my rig that wouldn't make the other matx out now good? Will the new C51G nforce boards be any better than what's out now?
 
I can carry my Lian Li PC61 in one hand. Is it an SFF? Keep in mind, Shuttle pretty much invented (and is most definitely responsible for the proliferation of) toaster form factor PC's.
 
toxikneedle said:
Also, I noticed that mATX mobos have SATA 1.5GB/s while ATX Nforce4 Ultras have SATA 3.0Gb/s, does this affect the speed of HD loading and work, etc?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, SATA 3.0GB/s is nothing special. Most HD can't even use up the current 1.5GB/s and only on rare occasions, like burst reads or writes can it exceed the bandwidth. No HD can sustain that and use all the bandwidth (mmm, maybe the Hitachi but meh). NCQ also is nothing too amazing. Only minimal improvement can be noticed and in a real world situation like application load time, windows load time, read, write, you won't be able to tell the difference unless you are sitting there with a stopwatch and it's super accurate ;)

Ald
 
I would get the SilverStone Sugo SG01 Here

Its a very high quality case, and its actually the non-pimped verson of the fragbox. It can fit a normal ATX PSU, and a 7700CU (or any other big heatsink). Unlike the Q-PACK, it can take full drives without modification.
 
SG got no windows, and you know what... 180$ for that? No freakin way. Also the parts I'm getting for the aspire will fit both an ATX PSU and a optical drive no problem. This isn't about cases, SG or Aspire, they still only fit mATX mobos and I want to know if anything that will be good enough for my system is out or will be coming out.. I also want to know why the current matx mobos aren't good enough.
 
The Jetway s939 mATX board can run Dual-Core chips up to 4800.
The MSI s939 mATX board is dual core ready.


I am not understanding what you mean by "good enough".
 
Tiny said:
I am not understanding what you mean by "good enough".
Click to expand...
This may sound a bit retarded from me because I'm a noob in that perspective I guess. Someone said that the mATX mobos out now aren't suited for running a high-end system. That with the addition of that I have yet to see someone build a system as high as the one I want is what made me worried. If the guy is completely wrong and as long as the mobo supports X2s, it is good for me.... please tell me that. I just need reassurance that the mobo won't somehow bottleneck my system.
 
me neither :p

i like the qpack a lot tho (from what i can see, havent had the chance to actually hold one yet etc), and im planning on building a system w/ one as soon as the new ATI card comes out, and by that time hopefully a wider variety of matx boards as well. cmon dfi, make a nf4 ultra matx board! :D
 
Soymilk said:
me neither :p

i like the qpack a lot tho (from what i can see, havent had the chance to actually hold one yet etc), and im planning on building a system w/ one as soon as the new ATI card comes out, and by that time hopefully a wider variety of matx boards as well. cmon dfi, make a nf4 ultra matx board! :D
Click to expand...
Hey soy, what's so much better about nf4 ultras than the nf4s out now? I mean I saw they got extra sata ports and other features like that but is the performance better?
 
toxikneedle said:
This may sound a bit retarded from me because I'm a noob in that perspective I guess. Someone said that the mATX mobos out now aren't suited for running a high-end system. That with the addition of that I have yet to see someone build a system as high as the one I want is what made me worried. If the guy is completely wrong and as long as the mobo supports X2s, it is good for me.... please tell me that. I just need reassurance that the mobo won't somehow bottleneck my system.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why they would say the aren't suited for highend. They can run everything out now, except SLI. That is the only thing lacking on a mATX board...SLI.
 
Okie, so if I would build a system around whatever the best matx board is in 2-3 months and the specs I gave before, I shouldn't have a problem? That's all I basically want to know.
 
No problems. The ONLY concern would be what board has what overclock options you wanted, if you are into that, and if you ever wanted to go SLI/CrossFire.

Other than that...they are the same as ATX boards....just smaller. :)
 
Right, you should be able to do anything within the specs you gave earlier on any of the good current mATX motherboards out today.

Jetway check
MSI RS480 check
ECS/ Winfast check

I am not sure that the modstream would work though. I know the Antec Neo 480 will work, so if the modstream is set up the same way then sure
 
No the modstream is fine, I also did research on the measures that I can fit and with the Liteon Optical Drive and this PSU, I should have no problem fitting them. And the OCZ Modstream got all the power options I need, 20-24pin mobo, PCI-E, 2 SATA, a couple of molexes. Should be fine.

As far as overclocking features, I guess I'd like there to be some vdimm options because a lot of ram is rated higher than 2.5v which is default on most mATX mobos. I know that the OCZ ram that I'm buying is rated to run on 2.6v, so I'd like to have that option and run my ram 2.7 or so and not worry about lowering timings or mhz :\
 
I think you need to define what you mean by highend system.

Just about any SFF can be a highend system, if all you're talking about is fast processor, fast vidcard, fast memory, and fast drive(s).

Sounds more like you're thinking about extreme over-clocking and/or cooling setups. In that case, I don't recommend any SFF.
 
toxikneedle said:
Hey soy, what's so much better about nf4 ultras than the nf4s out now? I mean I saw they got extra sata ports and other features like that but is the performance better?
Click to expand...

its just there's more options on nf4 ultra, im not sure if there is a performance difference at all; if there is, its an insignificant amount. but nf4 ultra supports sata II which nf4 normal doesnt, but that doesnt matter too much. its always nicer having something based on the newer technology tho.
 
eastvillager said:
I think you need to define what you mean by highend system.

Just about any SFF can be a highend system, if all you're talking about is fast processor, fast vidcard, fast memory, and fast drive(s).

Sounds more like you're thinking about extreme over-clocking and/or cooling setups. In that case, I don't recommend any SFF.
Click to expand...
Why is getting new tech mean that anything has to do with overclocking. I'm not buying my 4400 to overclock it, im buying it to use it.
 
toxikneedle said:
Why is getting new tech mean that anything has to do with overclocking. I'm not buying my 4400 to overclock it, im buying it to use it.
Click to expand...

If you're not overclocking, then why do you give a shit about the powersupply in the snp25, or the rails? When you start making the distinctions you've made, they point at overclocking.

People have already shown that powersupply handles a fully configured system with "highend" components just fine.

fx-55, 2 74gig raptors, 1 180gig eide, plextor dvd burner, 2 gigs of ram, and an x800xl +arctic silencer 5. Guess what? sn25p powersupply handles them just fine...
 
eastvillager said:
If you're not overclocking, then why do you give a shit about the powersupply in the snp25, or the rails? When you start making the distinctions you've made, they point at overclocking.

People have already shown that powersupply handles a fully configured system with "highend" components just fine.

fx-55, 2 74gig raptors, 1 180gig eide, plextor dvd burner, 2 gigs of ram, and an x800xl +arctic silencer 5. Guess what? sn25p powersupply handles them just fine...
Click to expand...
Bullshit. Just because he wants a high-end PSU and other high-end parts doesn't mean he MUST overclock (or else...) :mad: Some people prefer stability over bleeding edge if you didn't know...
 
Plus where have you been, people with shuttles can't even run X2s. They have to run it on single core it freezes their system. I've read tons of forum posts over on sfftech on people who have problems with X2s and shuttles. Plus with a matx mobo, a new PSU, and the aspire case (which I like tons more than shuttle's) it is still cheaper than 1 SN25P. I'm changing the PSU because aspire's PSU is awful to say the least, not because I want to overclock everything.
 
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