I just built a high end computer but the power supply doesn't seem very good. The computer is an FX-55, X800 Pro, and water cooled. The PSU that came with case I bought was a 450W L&C. I've read reviews that it isn't much good. So I think that I would need a new power supply. Right now, I'm debating between the 550W one with PFC (click here) and the 530W one without PFC (click here). Which one do you guys suggest and what is the benefit of PFC?
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High end computer
- Thread starter hanlin
- Start date
computerpro3
LightningRod
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if you're running that hardware there's no excuse for not getting a pcp&c 510 deluxe, the best normal consumer psu on the planet.
www.pcpowerandcooling.com
The fortron 550 is an excellent supply though, edf. go for that over the 530. Just make sure it comes with a 24 pin - 20 pin adapter
As for what "pff" does, I thought it was pfc? Anyways, I know the basics but I'll leave this to someone more knowledgeable about it than me, like Ice Czar. I don't think its too important in terms of saving money on your power bill though, as many people think it is.
www.pcpowerandcooling.com
The fortron 550 is an excellent supply though, edf. go for that over the 530. Just make sure it comes with a 24 pin - 20 pin adapter
As for what "pff" does, I thought it was pfc? Anyways, I know the basics but I'll leave this to someone more knowledgeable about it than me, like Ice Czar. I don't think its too important in terms of saving money on your power bill though, as many people think it is.
burningrave101
[H]F Junkie
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Here is a pretty good explanation.
Ice Czar
Inscrutable
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- Jul 8, 2001
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- 27,174
PFC Decoded
slightly longer and far more humorous
slightly longer and far more humorous
I'd like to keep the price under $100 though. Here's what I have in my system:
Asus A8V Deluxe
FX-55
X800 Pro
Corsair XMS pc3200xlpt
WD Raptor
6 fans (3 Deltas and 3 TT thunderblades)
DD 12V pump for watercooling
Nec DVD-RW
Spire Digipanel
The power supply that came with my case is an L&C 450W. I'm afraid to even try it as I think it will destroy my computer.
Right now, I'm looking at the Fortron 550W, the Ultra X-Connect 500W, and the Antec True550 or 480. I'm really leaning towards the Ultra X-Connect because of the modular cabels.
Asus A8V Deluxe
FX-55
X800 Pro
Corsair XMS pc3200xlpt
WD Raptor
6 fans (3 Deltas and 3 TT thunderblades)
DD 12V pump for watercooling
Nec DVD-RW
Spire Digipanel
The power supply that came with my case is an L&C 450W. I'm afraid to even try it as I think it will destroy my computer.
Right now, I'm looking at the Fortron 550W, the Ultra X-Connect 500W, and the Antec True550 or 480. I'm really leaning towards the Ultra X-Connect because of the modular cabels.
computerpro3
LightningRod
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don't even try the x-connect with that system
at the absolute minimum you need a fortron 530 or a pcp&C 425 deluxe. Don't bother with the antec 550 or 480 in that situation. IF you are into modular supplies, take a look at the antec NEOpower 480 (not trupower). Its antec's best psu, better than the 550w.
How ocme you are keeping it under $100? I'm not sure if you know this, but a substandard power supply will VERY VERY VERY likely kill your entire machine; chip, mobo, vid card, etc. When you spend 1k on your chip alone, how come you won't spend $200 on something that is insurance for your machine?
at the absolute minimum you need a fortron 530 or a pcp&C 425 deluxe. Don't bother with the antec 550 or 480 in that situation. IF you are into modular supplies, take a look at the antec NEOpower 480 (not trupower). Its antec's best psu, better than the 550w.
How ocme you are keeping it under $100? I'm not sure if you know this, but a substandard power supply will VERY VERY VERY likely kill your entire machine; chip, mobo, vid card, etc. When you spend 1k on your chip alone, how come you won't spend $200 on something that is insurance for your machine?
Ice Czar
Inscrutable
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- Messages
- 27,174
and when compared to say a CPU which bought at the bleeding edge can drop half its value within the year
a good PSU holds its resell value quite well
not that you actually get rid of em
a good PSU holds its resell value quite well
not that you actually get rid of em
Ice Czar
Inscrutable
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simply finish
cool black case and sleeving
a Neopower is a truely compliant ATX12V v2.01 PSU with two seperate +12V rails (32A combined total) and independently regulated +3.3V, +5V, +12V1, and +12V2 rails
with a transient response of 3% in less than 1ms for 20% load change
and DM Pard (AC Ripple \ Differential Mode Periodic and Random Deviation) of 50mV for the +3.3 & +5V rails and 120mV on the 2 12V rails (basic spec)
in comparison a PCP&C 510 Turbo Cool is compatible not compliant with a single +12V rail (34Amps nominal 38Amps Peak) whuich because its transient response is so tight (1%) really dosent mean all that much and provides greater load flexability, it also has independtly regulated rails but its DM PARD is 10mV for the all the main rails which is extremely clean
its also widely regarded as the best available for its form factor
the Neopower is however a damn fine PSU
cool black case and sleeving
a Neopower is a truely compliant ATX12V v2.01 PSU with two seperate +12V rails (32A combined total) and independently regulated +3.3V, +5V, +12V1, and +12V2 rails
with a transient response of 3% in less than 1ms for 20% load change
and DM Pard (AC Ripple \ Differential Mode Periodic and Random Deviation) of 50mV for the +3.3 & +5V rails and 120mV on the 2 12V rails (basic spec)
in comparison a PCP&C 510 Turbo Cool is compatible not compliant with a single +12V rail (34Amps nominal 38Amps Peak) whuich because its transient response is so tight (1%) really dosent mean all that much and provides greater load flexability, it also has independtly regulated rails but its DM PARD is 10mV for the all the main rails which is extremely clean
its also widely regarded as the best available for its form factor
the Neopower is however a damn fine PSU
computerpro3
LightningRod
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the pcp&c will also give you more upgradability in the future, more room to add componets. But it doesn't have modular cables as does the antec. I went pcp&C not only because of the fact that it is the best normal consumer psu available, but also because they use truthful ratings, have the longest and best warranty (2 years longer than antec's), best support and service, avaibalility of infinite custom options, the nice fit and finish, and the fact that I chatted with one of their reps for an hour on the phone talking about overclocking and some different minor modifications that they could make to my psu so I could hammer the 3.3v line especially hard; they mounted the 3.3v pot on a 3 foot external line for me and made some adjustments to resistors inside the psu to allow the lines to be adjusted much more than they normally would. I can run my 3.3v line @ 3.9v (highest I've tried, it may even go higher) without the ovp kicking in.
I love this thing, and to me is worth the extra $100 or whatever it is over the Antec. But that doesn't mean it will be to you. Both are excellent psu's.
I love this thing, and to me is worth the extra $100 or whatever it is over the Antec. But that doesn't mean it will be to you. Both are excellent psu's.
Sorry Ice Czar but I didn't understand a single word of what you said. I'll just assume that you are saying both PSU are excellent. Because of the price and the modular cabling, I think I'll go with the NeoPower. Through many reviews of it though, I've found that the 12V is bit low. Will this be a potential problem and will I be able to adjust it?
Unless someone can tell me that the pcp&c psu is far better than the NeoPower, I will buy the NeoPower.
Unless someone can tell me that the pcp&c psu is far better than the NeoPower, I will buy the NeoPower.
Bullitt
2[H]4U
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You get what you pay for....
I've come to accept that and I'm not entrusting my measly $1500 system to a < $100 PSU.
Man, 55FX and GF6800 ultra is a dream system today.... Go for broke and get the best out there. Or, the best according to any enthusiast site/mag worth a damn
I've come to accept that and I'm not entrusting my measly $1500 system to a < $100 PSU.
Man, 55FX and GF6800 ultra is a dream system today.... Go for broke and get the best out there. Or, the best according to any enthusiast site/mag worth a damn
computerpro3
LightningRod
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well it is far better, I would spring for it with that system you have personally. IT's like putting ford rims on a bmw if you go for the antec.
However the fords are pretty damn reliable in this situation.
ITs far better, but whether its $100 better is up to you.
However the fords are pretty damn reliable in this situation.
ITs far better, but whether its $100 better is up to you.
Is it worth it to buy a good surge protector? Right now, I have a cheap Belkin one (probably around $10) and also I have an old house. This means that the wall socket only has two holes and not a third for grounding so I'm using an adapter. Will I have any problems like a surge that will kill the computer?
Ice Czar
Inscrutable
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Id recommend you get a UPS over a surge protector
Power Conditioning 101
and an Isolated Ground for your computer room
Power Conditioning 101
and an Isolated Ground for your computer room
Thanks Ice for those websites. They were very helpful.
Anyway, back to the main question on what power supply I should get, I'm thinking about going with the Sparkle 530W. Click here. It's cheap and reviews say that it is excellent. One question though about the link. What does the B and the end of the FSP530-60GNA mean? I don't see this on the newegg site.
Anyway, back to the main question on what power supply I should get, I'm thinking about going with the Sparkle 530W. Click here. It's cheap and reviews say that it is excellent. One question though about the link. What does the B and the end of the FSP530-60GNA mean? I don't see this on the newegg site.
Ice Czar
Inscrutable
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FSP Group = Fortron Sourse + Sparkle Power
Damn Fine PSU best value for the buck out there in my opinion
its an ATX12V v1.3 PSU meaning it has a single +12V rail and a 20 pin connector
why dont you run the numbers on your config
its the right way to assess the tradeoffs
cut and paste 101
http://takaman.jp/D/index.html?english
and use the values listed here for newer graphics cards (you can manually add them into the calculator above) make sure to use the additive result of the power supplied from the AGP slot and the auxillary power to the card, the total isnt given on the charts
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators. Part I: Graphics Cards on ATI Chips
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators. Part II: NVIDIA vs. ATI
and double check the processor value against this database
http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm
if there is an auxillary +12V power connector on the mobo, add it to the +12V rail
if not add it to the +5V rail
and follow the instructions here for other considerations (like temperature)
Whats dont mean Jack
I generally deduct 1\3rd off the amps a PSU is rated
to reflect the difference between the temperature it was tested at 25C
and the normal operating temperature in the enclosure 40C,
because its typically exhausting the HeatSink
as the title suggests, it aint the watts that is important
its the proper distribution of amps to the various rails
forgot to mention inputting a value for a CPU is a little different, since the database is simply listed in consumption in watts (max) what you have to do is add in a guess as to the Amps in either the +5V or +12V box (select other CPU not listed from the drop down menu)
that will give you the watts to the right, so, by trial and error adjust the amps to the watts to match the database figure
or just convert the watts to amps with a calculator first
AMPS = Watts / Voltage
so an Athlon 64-3200+ with a Thermal Design Power figure of 89W being powered off the +12V rail...
89 divided by 12 = 7.41Amp
which is really close to waht is listed in that calculator
(88.8 watts and 7.4A)
also note the utilization box at the top, that simply applies to the search returns whan you look for compliant PSU, not the figures listed
since many manufacturers lie like dogs regarding their specs
its best to post a thread regarding what supplies your considering
also that is a Japanese site, and some of those brands wouldnt be readily available here
and some we have arent listed
that would give you the theoretical maximum
that reflects the nature of any calculator
its additive of all the maximum draws for each component
but all components rarely if ever need their maximum draw at the same time
for instance a HDD may require 2A on the +12V line at spinup to overcome inertia
but only .05A while spinning, same for fans high amp draw at spinup
(not using the opticals, then you just have a very low standby draw)
the opposite applies to an IC (CPU/GPU) from Idle to load
for example figures for an X800XT (one of the most power hungry GPUs and cards)
525/1150
............................IDLE...........................LOAD
+3.3V.......1.05Amps 3.48Watts................2.71Amps 8.74Watts
+5V..........1.42Amps 4.05Watts...............3.33Amps 16.75watts
+12V........0.85Amps 10.09Watts..............3.25Amps 37.73Watts
Total W.....17.62Watts Idle.......................63.23Watts load
which jumps even more with an overclock
550/1250...18.43Watts Idle.......................65.88Watts load
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
while the Fortron\Sparkle might workout, it also might be creeping up on the +12V rail limit
so running the numbers will let you know what kind of safety margin you have
the nominal rating of the Fortron\Sparkle 530 is 16A which is way too conservative,
its peak amps on the +12V is 28Amps but rated for 15 seconds
which is weird since that is alot longer than most peak amps are rated at,
its a very wide nominal\peak amp range (16\28)
more typical would be what you see on the PCP&C 510 where its 34\38amps
Its simply the best PS\2 / ATX form factor PSU out there
quite a bit better, even than the Neopower, considerably better than the Fortron\Sparkle
the question becomes if you actually need it, I have one, in my workstation, but I dont have one in any of my other boxes, if your serious about overclocking or running alot of very high power components (lots and lots of drives for instance) its certainly worth it
or if you have spent a small fortune on your rig and want the best possible protection and power you can get.
Damn Fine PSU best value for the buck out there in my opinion
its an ATX12V v1.3 PSU meaning it has a single +12V rail and a 20 pin connector
why dont you run the numbers on your config
its the right way to assess the tradeoffs
cut and paste 101
http://takaman.jp/D/index.html?english
and use the values listed here for newer graphics cards (you can manually add them into the calculator above) make sure to use the additive result of the power supplied from the AGP slot and the auxillary power to the card, the total isnt given on the charts
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators. Part I: Graphics Cards on ATI Chips
Power Consumption of Contemporary Graphics Accelerators. Part II: NVIDIA vs. ATI
and double check the processor value against this database
http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm
if there is an auxillary +12V power connector on the mobo, add it to the +12V rail
if not add it to the +5V rail
and follow the instructions here for other considerations (like temperature)
Whats dont mean Jack
I generally deduct 1\3rd off the amps a PSU is rated
to reflect the difference between the temperature it was tested at 25C
and the normal operating temperature in the enclosure 40C,
because its typically exhausting the HeatSink
as the title suggests, it aint the watts that is important
its the proper distribution of amps to the various rails
forgot to mention inputting a value for a CPU is a little different, since the database is simply listed in consumption in watts (max) what you have to do is add in a guess as to the Amps in either the +5V or +12V box (select other CPU not listed from the drop down menu)
that will give you the watts to the right, so, by trial and error adjust the amps to the watts to match the database figure
or just convert the watts to amps with a calculator first
AMPS = Watts / Voltage
so an Athlon 64-3200+ with a Thermal Design Power figure of 89W being powered off the +12V rail...
89 divided by 12 = 7.41Amp
which is really close to waht is listed in that calculator
(88.8 watts and 7.4A)
also note the utilization box at the top, that simply applies to the search returns whan you look for compliant PSU, not the figures listed
since many manufacturers lie like dogs regarding their specs
its best to post a thread regarding what supplies your considering
also that is a Japanese site, and some of those brands wouldnt be readily available here
and some we have arent listed
that would give you the theoretical maximum
that reflects the nature of any calculator
its additive of all the maximum draws for each component
but all components rarely if ever need their maximum draw at the same time
for instance a HDD may require 2A on the +12V line at spinup to overcome inertia
but only .05A while spinning, same for fans high amp draw at spinup
(not using the opticals, then you just have a very low standby draw)
the opposite applies to an IC (CPU/GPU) from Idle to load
for example figures for an X800XT (one of the most power hungry GPUs and cards)
525/1150
............................IDLE...........................LOAD
+3.3V.......1.05Amps 3.48Watts................2.71Amps 8.74Watts
+5V..........1.42Amps 4.05Watts...............3.33Amps 16.75watts
+12V........0.85Amps 10.09Watts..............3.25Amps 37.73Watts
Total W.....17.62Watts Idle.......................63.23Watts load
which jumps even more with an overclock
550/1250...18.43Watts Idle.......................65.88Watts load
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
while the Fortron\Sparkle might workout, it also might be creeping up on the +12V rail limit
so running the numbers will let you know what kind of safety margin you have
the nominal rating of the Fortron\Sparkle 530 is 16A which is way too conservative,
its peak amps on the +12V is 28Amps but rated for 15 seconds
which is weird since that is alot longer than most peak amps are rated at,
its a very wide nominal\peak amp range (16\28)
more typical would be what you see on the PCP&C 510 where its 34\38amps
hanlin said:
Its simply the best PS\2 / ATX form factor PSU out there
quite a bit better, even than the Neopower, considerably better than the Fortron\Sparkle
the question becomes if you actually need it, I have one, in my workstation, but I dont have one in any of my other boxes, if your serious about overclocking or running alot of very high power components (lots and lots of drives for instance) its certainly worth it
or if you have spent a small fortune on your rig and want the best possible protection and power you can get.
computerpro3
LightningRod
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
- Messages
- 8,702
if you plan on upgrading during those three years at all, I doubt that the enermax will hold up. Is the only reason you're not going with the pcp&c price? If you really can't afford it I can understand, be also be aware that all the other psu's out there have a warranty will expire exactly when you're target to keep the machine running will run out, while the pcp&c will have another 2 years...3 years is a lot to ask of a 4xx watt psu powering that hardware that is overrated to begin with....
If you have enough cash to go with the fx-55 and x800, I don't understand the reasons for not getting the simply best reliable psu out there, not to mention the best performing. You're computer is an investment, protect it. If you had a 3500+/9800 pro I wouldn't so adamant for pushing it over the antec, but I just think that you're leaving yourself with very limited room for expansion, not to mention running the risk of something bad happening over 3 years (a very long time in computer hardware, during next year, dual core designs are coming out, SLI will be commonplace, ddr2 will become more common, hell, BTX may even become common if intel wins. ) Quad core cpu's may be common in 3 years. The pc landscape is changing dramatically as we speak, and I don't see why you wouldn't go for the investment now if you have the cash. It will likely save you at least the cose of the psu in the future.
edit: also, what ice czar talked about with deducting 1/3 off the amps when calculating the numbers, you don't have to do that with a pcp&c as they rate at the 40C temp already. So 38 amps is 38 amps!
If you have enough cash to go with the fx-55 and x800, I don't understand the reasons for not getting the simply best reliable psu out there, not to mention the best performing. You're computer is an investment, protect it. If you had a 3500+/9800 pro I wouldn't so adamant for pushing it over the antec, but I just think that you're leaving yourself with very limited room for expansion, not to mention running the risk of something bad happening over 3 years (a very long time in computer hardware, during next year, dual core designs are coming out, SLI will be commonplace, ddr2 will become more common, hell, BTX may even become common if intel wins. ) Quad core cpu's may be common in 3 years. The pc landscape is changing dramatically as we speak, and I don't see why you wouldn't go for the investment now if you have the cash. It will likely save you at least the cose of the psu in the future.
edit: also, what ice czar talked about with deducting 1/3 off the amps when calculating the numbers, you don't have to do that with a pcp&c as they rate at the 40C temp already. So 38 amps is 38 amps!