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Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by rgMekanic, Apr 12, 2018.
He used solid strand wire for the conductors? That is a terrible terrible thing.
Thanks for that!
I only use oxeygenn depleeted, same for my brainey parts.
Seriously.... can you play a CD backwards? Can you listen to a CD by just squeezing a needle between your fingers and rotating it?
CDs are lacking a ton of features.
While there are some complicated tricks to create hidden tracks on CDs, it's easier to produce an alternate groove path on vinyl.
You could say I've seen just about all of that sort of thing...
This sound like mostly audiojunk... I listen to mostly digital/streaming but tend to buy vinyl from artists I really like but couldn't afford (or want to) get stuff where something like 24/96 or this stuff would make big enough difference... Have heard to many song s ruined by bad mastering and the loudness war though and that makes me sad....
Now please give me a super highend setup where I can appreciate the difference and I'll get back to everyone what sounds better...
I agree that vinyl HD makes no sense but for genral vinyl itself, I personally think it sounds better. Analog audio just sounds different and while yes, you can get a good copy it's the imperfections of analog that are the reason some folks enjoy. You will need a good DAC that supports DSD or other high quality format and biggest difficulty is actually finding your music in that format, whereas vinyl is relatively easy to get hold of. Decent turntables can be had about about the same money as decent DAC. I found my old tapes when I was going through old boxes in the basement and I really did get the kick of how it sounded, though rewinding tapes did stagger my brain for a bit. For many CD's and remastered songs I feel they sound too digital. Many people who grew up want music to sound the same as it did back in the day and with digital and remastered copies it's not the same.
I was meaning because of skinning. Solid core/strand is terrible for high frequency signals do to the phenomenon.
I will say that there are a few cases where I think vinyl has sounded better to me. A quick case that comes to mind are a few of the half speed masters dad has (Boston, Floyd, etc..). It sounds so much better than the CD. I have a feeling though that has more to do with the mastering rather than the medium.
Totally, a lot of mastering especially for CD loses a lot of fidelity as well as what they do to "clean up" the tracks. It just doesn't sound the same especially if you know and enjoy the sound of the original. For newer music which is recorded digitally with modern equipment this doesn't apply but for older stuff I much prefer the original format. I honestly would love an old skool reel to reel deck but kids will destroy it so I'm holding off. lol
Wow. A good record on a decent turntable with a nice phono amp just murders digital audio. You would have to hear it to know, almost no one has.
I guarantee no one can tell the difference. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/solid-core-versus-stranded-speaker-cables
Fair enough, just pointing out that it would be perfectly feasible to master it the same, put it to whatever format, and digitally capture that to get the same sound. Also no need for a DSD converter. It turns out our ears really aren't that good, and our technology really is good.
Regardless I don't mind if people like old tech for whatever reason, so long as they don't try to fool themselves or others in to thinking it is somehow objectively better .
What's funny about this statement is that radio stations used something very similar to an 8-track all the way up until everything went digital. Video stuff was often recorded on BetaMax cameras up until the digital age. There were important differences in these formats compared to their consumer counterparts, but the basic idea and form factors were all the same.
Hows this for a decent setup?
Technics SL1200 DD table
Dynaco clone amp I built using all new-old stock tubes
T4HF Preamp I built using all new-old stock tubes
Klipsch Heresy II speakers
Was a project that dad and I did about 2/3 years ago. He did a lot of tube stuff in the Navy as an EWC before he retired. There is also an Onkyo DAC in the mix, but I cant remember what model. It wasn't cheap. Hell, nothing about this project was cheap. I think we spent 3 grand just in tubes.
Some things sound better on the HSM's, and other's sound better now. It seems to me that music produced and mastered for the format do sound better on the vinyl. However, music that was produced and mastered for modern formats sound like dog shit on the vinyl.
Whu! A scratch table. My son has 2 and they are not terrible, but not great. Dynaco is alright, I would not call it high end. The speakers ... oh the speakers. A phono section for MC cartridges, you have one right, needs to able to amplify a lot. To get that right is not simple.
It isn't actually a Dynaco. Its a clone with a lot of work done to it to bring it up to par. If you skim over the prints, youll see that. I would call a $5000 amp to be somewhat high end.
The amps, apart from the phono section I don't know about, are OK. The speakers are awful. What touches the record?
I am not sure of needle. That was something dad already had picked out. I remember him mentioning is was a few hundred bucks.
The speakers don't have the highest efficiency, but they sound pretty great. You're the first person that I've ever heard say that those speakers are "awful".
We do have a pair of Klipsch LaScala's on the order list, or I should say that he does. I don't have room or the budget for those beasts here at my place. He used to have a pair when we were kids before we moved to Italy. They got stolen during the move. I remember how amazing they were.
Do you care to say why the amps are "OK", especially without knowing what tubes are in it?
We are comparing the Media and performance. That is all. Mastering is mastering, not my job. Everything in between is just details. Close your eyes and just listen. Forget about CD, LP, DAT, who screws up what in between because it is a pointless argument. Sure blame the producers, the musicians, everything and everyone but the crappy technology and medium that was obsolete a long time ago. So to watch black and white TV shows, I'd better go get a black and white TV from the 50's because that's what the TV show was "mastered on" and that's how it was meant to be? Ridiculous. I can live without the "ambiance" should it even exist. If you can't - sure go ahead and invest a fortune in obsolete tech.
I was wrong about the speakers. I don't know enough about them to offer criticism, I thought they were earlier ones. Sorry about that.
I have a box full of tubes. I used to deal Sovtek long ago and I have some opinions. I like Svetlayna 6550s above pretty near everything in my SFM 75s. I like my Mullards in my preamps and I'm pretty old school. A Dynaco is a Dynaco or a Dynaco copy and are what they are. Tubes will not make a huge difference.
What hits the record is important. An MC cartridge has a lot more resolution than a MM, but requires expensive amplification, which is why MMs are everywhere. You can spend hours just getting the angles right, gotta do that by ear. I use trumpets with lots of high notes. Perhaps the most difficult thing to reproduce well. A knife is what you want for a stylus and your records need to be very clean. Nothing in the bottom of the groove. This will use a different part of the groove and will avoid most of the damage already put there by conical styuses. As well it will wear the record minimally.
I asked dad about the cartridge. He didn't have the model off his head, but said it was a moving magnet iirc.
He's just plain wrong. There is not one thing about vinyl that makes music playback better. not one.
no it wont. CDs can always out preform Vinyl.
"Can" is the key word. It should be "does", but due to the differences between old mastering and the fuckery that new SE's do when re-mastering for DA, it simply ends up being a coin toss.
People will always need stuff to fill the space on their shelves. Colorful things they can take down, open, touch, and read through. With the majority of music, movies and games being bought and delivered digitally, it's the perfect time for a company to come along and offer tangible products to fill up space in analogphiles' empty lives.
CD's maybe in many cases not necessarily. SACD yes but either way, what we have here is folks like the sound of analog audio from analog source. Not just frequency response and such. It simply sounds difference, perhaps not better quality wise but to some more natural or at the very least close to what people remember.
You obviously didn't comprehend a word I said.
Actually the trend at high-end expos has gone from turning vinyl to full digital. Last time in Munich I don't recall more than a couple exhibitors playing vinyl anymore. Yes they had turntables at display but the sound quality demos were all digital.
That's a bit roughly put. Many people enjoy the process of devoting to the record. They have a ritual of placing the record, cleaning it, then putting the box for display on front of the player...
There is a certain aspect to that that I also appreciate. But I'm too lazy to ever to do that myself. I just enjoy seeing someone else take the care.
A HD vinyl record from a lossy digital source....?
High definition vinyl is realz ...
It seems like there's a needle joke here somewhere, but I can't be bothered to find it. Which is also true.
probably for the best.
Not for the rest of us.
I'm not sure why everyone is getting so butthurt over CD vs. Vinyl. It's a preference thing, and I doubt that many people are going to argue that vinyl is a superior technology for reproducing audio. It is just a different technology, that imparts a different sound.
Some people like that sound.
Some people can't hear the difference.
Some people don't like sound of vinyl.
That's it - and it's fine to belong to any of the groups. That's the end of the argument, really. If you prefer vinyl, buy it and listen to it. If you don't, then don't buy it.
People argue more about audio than they argue about religion. Go to an electric guitar forum sometime, and see how many threads you can read before two people get into an argument about tone woods.
(For the record, I don't give a fuck if the wood has any effect on the sustain or tone of an electric guitar, I like it when beautiful wood is used in a well made guitar, even if you can't see the wood because the guitar is painted black.)
nobody is calling you old... the date of birth on your license and AARP card are doing that
...and the buy in is that it plays better than the old diamond crystal stylus. At 15K , cheap for the guys that will get one.
Aficionados claim since the sound is analog comin from the mic - on all forms of music and sound in general - it stands to feel/believe that only an analog recording could preserve the fidelity in the analog sound. Now that there is a digital means of directly playing the analog sound, what would the aficionado class think now?
Digital is better, but apparently only for the non purist class. I bet that every one of those 15K laser turntables have only played classical - nothing against classical, just that its sometimes a purist class.
Therein lies the crux of the issue. CD's can be very inconsistent. I have picked up CD's which have been over-saturated and clipped so bad they sounded like a worn out vinyl recording. Most of those were all done in the digital realm. I say "most", just to cover my butt, as all the one I have run into were all done in the digital realm. I go back to some of my vinyls and find many songs sound so much better than the CD transfer does. So much so, I have done my own conversion to the digital realm.
There are few exceptions in the case where analog transfers, originally pressed in vinyl, sound better on CD. Most sound worse. The Beatles transfers are an exception, for sure. The CD versions sound as good, if not better, than the vinyl pressings.
For new recordings, all handled in the digital realm, CD is superior. For old analog transfers, it is hit and miss, at best.
I think most of this is moot
You need good equipment and then Vinyl kills all
My spinny turn table thing has an arm made from the Tibia of a t-rex, the needle is made from part unicorn horn (yes they existed)
The trumpet part is made from the ear canal of someone who listens to Morgan Freeman a lot
The motor is from a 1936 Indian Motorcycle and the cabinet its in is made from the leftovers of Noahs ark
Pretty hard to get better then that I tell you