High Definition Content on CRT

PC Surgeon

Limp Gawd
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Is it possible to run HD on a CRT? I'm thinking of getting a new CRT like this one:

http://www.overstock.com/?page=proframe&prod_id=1045549

I want to be able to watch HD-DVD's and Blue-Ray movies along with either an XBOX 360 or a PlayStation 3.

Are there any special cables i need? Basically need to know what I need for this to work.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: I want to run 1080P/1080i.
 
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I had a 36" 4:3 CRT HD Toshiba (36HF73)

Great tube. Still use it (in my office now).

You linked to a monitor though, not a TV, so you'll need a TV card and a computer, and you'll run it via VGA.

Max res on that screen is 1920 x 1440 , which means it should support HD content. Assuming that's the native res as well, you can run up to 1080p on it, although because it's 4:3, you'll have black bars top and bottom.

The killer is, that's a refurbished model. for $200, why wouldn't you just cough up a bit extra $$ and get a nice LCD brand new from newegg?

zv
 

UrielDagda

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I think the only issue is really one of requiring HDCP capability or having the picture quality reduced to 480i or just blanked out. I am not aware of any CRTs with HDCP, maybe somebody else knows if there is any way around it.
 

PC Surgeon

Limp Gawd
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I had a 36" 4:3 CRT HD Toshiba (36HF73)

Great tube. Still use it (in my office now).

You linked to a monitor though, not a TV, so you'll need a TV card and a computer, and you'll run it via VGA.

Max res on that screen is 1920 x 1440 , which means it should support HD content. Assuming that's the native res as well, you can run up to 1080p on it, although because it's 4:3, you'll have black bars top and bottom.

The killer is, that's a refurbished model. for $200, why wouldn't you just cough up a bit extra $$ and get a nice LCD brand new from newegg?

zv


I'm currently running on a 17" CRT and like the deep blacks. That's what is lacking with LCD's. The only LCD's that I have interest in are 24"ers and up. Which means alot of cash $600^^. The TN panels with the 6-bit/backlight bleeding/bad viewing angles do not interest me.
 

mathesar

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Im running PS3's Bluray through my 34" Sony XBR960 CRT HDTV's HDMI input via 1080i and it looks fantastic , The infinite deep blacks and superior shadow detail alone will win over anyone who compares it to the same sized LCD.

If you're looking for a PC CRT for HD Content you wont find anything better than the 24" FW900 (16:10 aspect) monitor, I play HD content on it all the time and its nothing short of amazing. The only problem is im not sure what the best method would be for getting PS3 connected to this monitor, With Xbox360 & HD-DVD you could just use the 360's VGA cable, PS3 currently doesnt have one.
 
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I agree on the blacks (as i said, i have a 36" CRT HDTV)

i'm not sure what HDCP has to do with anything... that'll have to be handled on your video card, not in the (a) monitor.

Personally, I wouldn't spend $200 on a refurbished monitor, with no warranty (as stated on that site)
 
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I agree on the blacks (as i said, i have a 36" CRT HDTV)

i'm not sure what HDCP has to do with anything... that'll have to be handled on your video card, not in the (a) monitor.

Personally, I wouldn't spend $200 on a refurbished monitor, with no warranty (as stated on that site)

If you want to play back Blu-Ray (on PS3 or computer) you need both an HDCP output and input (Monitor). On a PC that means an HDCP video card and HDCP monitor.
 

Skrying

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I agree on the blacks (as i said, i have a 36" CRT HDTV)

i'm not sure what HDCP has to do with anything... that'll have to be handled on your video card, not in the (a) monitor.

Personally, I wouldn't spend $200 on a refurbished monitor, with no warranty (as stated on that site)

Not true. HDCP most be supported on the monitor as well.

I would highly suggest you not going with this monitor if you wish to use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray material.
 

dualblade

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there is no hdcp on analog outputs/inputs; only on dvi/hdmi connections
 
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Not true. HDCP most be supported on the monitor as well.

I would highly suggest you not going with this monitor if you wish to use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray material.

You mean it has to have a DVI or HDMI input. That seemed obvious to me. clearly digital content and encrpytion isn't going to work over an analog (VGA) medium. Sorry to the OP for jumping ahead.

The actual decoding isn't being done in the monitor. it's being done in the player/pc hardware.
 
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Yep, 360's HD-DVD works over VGA all the way up to 1080P.

mathesar.. I have a big question for you!

I currently have the 34XBR960 hooked up to my PS3 (just like you) as well as an Xbox 360 and I think it's the absolute best picture quality I've ever seen. I've been trying to find a recent lcd to match the quality of this Sony XBR but with no luck. I just don't feel like downgrading!

Here's what I'de like to know from you...

Can you tell me how the FW900 stacks up to the 34XBR960? I have my pc hooked up to a Sony 19" Xbrite monitor (amazing) but want to move to a larger lcd with higher resolution to take advantage of future games (Crysis) and hd-dvd content with 360's hd-dvd drive.

I'de like to know if the FW900's overall quality matches the 34XBR960 because if so I won't need to get a big lcd and will consolidate everything down to this monitor with my gaming rig and X360. I'm thinking of selling my Sony 34 XBR and PS3 and dumping the $$ into a dx10 rig and this monitor. But I won't do it unless I find similar quality.

Thanks mathesar! (or anyone else with these 2 displays)
 

Skrying

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You mean it has to have a DVI or HDMI input. That seemed obvious to me. clearly digital content and encrpytion isn't going to work over an analog (VGA) medium. Sorry to the OP for jumping ahead.

The actual decoding isn't being done in the monitor. it's being done in the player/pc hardware.

Yes, you do need a digital connection for HDCP. But you are still mistaken in the thought that you can use a non-HDCP capable monitor and watch at full resolution when using high definition content that uses the DRM. To put it simply, your chain must be completely HDCP compliant. That means the software, the software, and the monitor. If anyone of these is not then you will only receive an image that is 960x540 in resolution.

That is why I strongly suggest that if a person is going to buy a new screen that they buy one that is HDCP capable, therefore when the DRM is brought down on us that person can still watch the content at full resolution and not go "Wow, that person at HardForum really screwed me out of $$$."
 

mathesar

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mathesar.. I have a big question for you!

I currently have the 34XBR960 hooked up to my PS3 (just like you) as well as an Xbox 360 and I think it's the absolute best picture quality I've ever seen. I've been trying to find a recent lcd to match the quality of this Sony XBR but with no luck. I just don't feel like downgrading!

Here's what I'de like to know from you...

Can you tell me how the FW900 stacks up to the 34XBR960? I have my pc hooked up to a Sony 19" Xbrite monitor (amazing) but want to move to a larger lcd with higher resolution to take advantage of future games (Crysis) and hd-dvd content with 360's hd-dvd drive.

I'de like to know if the FW900's overall quality matches the 34XBR960 because if so I won't need to get a big lcd and will consolidate everything down to this monitor with my gaming rig and X360. I'm thinking of selling my Sony 34 XBR and PS3 and dumping the $$ into a dx10 rig and this monitor. But I won't do it unless I find similar quality.

Thanks mathesar! (or anyone else with these 2 displays)

Tough question there , The FW900 is amazing as a PC monitor due to its size / uniform geometry / convergence & focus (at least the unit I have) ,but for console gaming I prefer the 34XBR960, Other than the bigger screen there's just something about it that not even the FW900 can match, Ive only directly compared Xbox360 but it had brighter colors / deeper blacks and overall punchier contrast on the XBR960, Also keep in mind the VGA output on the 360 is known to be a little 'flat' with slightly ramped up gamma (which is probably why the black levels are a little worse) so its not entirely the FW900's fault. Watching HD content on my PC has great black levels and overall looks excellent on the FW900.

But I watch a lot of standard Cable TV & HD channels on the XBR960 so personally I wouldn't get rid of it that easy,You wont find an LCD that can output 480i/480p at the quality level of a CRT (especially the XBR960 being it upscales 480i sources to 960i) Also its no longer in production so you'd basically be getting rid of the best consumer CRT HDTV ever produced.
 

artmonkey

Limp Gawd
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Yes, you do need a digital connection for HDCP. But you are still mistaken in the thought that you can use a non-HDCP capable monitor and watch at full resolution when using high definition content that uses the DRM. To put it simply, your chain must be completely HDCP compliant. That means the software, the software, and the monitor. If anyone of these is not then you will only receive an image that is 960x540 in resolution.

It's true that HDCP is only carried on digital cables but are you suggesting that the Xbox 360's HD-DVD player doesn't output 1080p because it doesn't have a digital connection? Because that's wrong. All content, DRM or not, can be output at full resolution through analogue cables with no DRM/problems until the 'Image Constraint Token' (ICT) is applied to media. ICT is what will will downscale HD to 960x540 but not until at least 2012. Since this monitor does not have an analogue input the only thing it will be restricted by is ICT. Of course the only way to get HD media on it would be through a VGA cable or Component cable (if it supports it).
 

Scyles

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Mathesar: I am now, officially, jealous. Not only do you own an FW900 in good condition, and a 20wmgx2, but you have an XBR960 as well? We both know that those CRT's are not going to last forever, and I'll be the one standing above you, laughing, when this kingdom of legendary displays that you've built comes crashing down.
 

mathesar

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Mathesar: I am now, officially, jealous. Not only do you own an FW900 in good condition, and a 20wmgx2, but you have an XBR960 as well? We both know that those CRT's are not going to last forever, and I'll be the one standing above you, laughing, when this kingdom of legendary displays that you've built comes crashing down.

lol well I still have 2 years left on my XBR960 warranty so hopefully by the time it dies another worthy technology will be available. Who knows how much longer my FW900 will last but at least I have this LCD as backup. Of course theres always Ebay as well, Plenty of FW900's still around.
 
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Yes, you do need a digital connection for HDCP. But you are still mistaken in the thought that you can use a non-HDCP capable monitor and watch at full resolution when using high definition content that uses the DRM.


Uhhh. Isn't DRM like 10 years away? It's all speculation at this point. I wouldn't be making any major decision on how that's all going to land yet.

At this point, a "non-HDCP" monitor is fine. By the time DRM comes to roost, if it's even the same, or happens at all, any monitor he buys will likely be outdated enough that he'll be upgrading anyway. Essentially, i'm not "mistaken" that he can use a "non HDCP compatible monitor" and get 1080p no problem.
zv
 

artmonkey

Limp Gawd
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Uhhh. Isn't DRM like 10 years away? It's all speculation at this point. I wouldn't be making any major decision on how that's all going to land yet.

At this point, a "non-HDCP" monitor is fine. By the time DRM comes to roost, if it's even the same, or happens at all, any monitor he buys will likely be outdated enough that he'll be upgrading anyway. Essentially, i'm not "mistaken" that he can use a "non HDCP compatible monitor" and get 1080p no problem.
zv

1080p on a non HDCP compatible monitor? Yes, only if through an analogue connection. No, DRM is not 10 years away and no, it's not speculation. Btw, it's probably a good idea to specify the type of DRM you are talking about, I assume it was HDCP you're talkig about and not ICT. It's amazing that so many people seem to think that HDCP is not being used yet. There is so much miss-information about this subject.

Good luck if you want to play a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD with HDCP (all movies) through an old LCD with DVI and no HDCP support. Unless, of course, someone bypasses the HDCP.
 
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1080p on a non HDCP compatible monitor? Yes, only if through an analogue connection. No, DRM is not 10 years away and no, it's not speculation. Btw, it's probably a good idea to specify the type of DRM you are talking about, I assume it was HDCP you're talkig about and not ICT. It's amazing that so many people seem to think that HDCP is not being used yet. There is so much miss-information about this subject.

Good luck if you want to play a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD with HDCP (all movies) through an old LCD with DVI and no HDCP support. Unless, of course, someone bypasses the HDCP.

or uses RGB cables?
 

artmonkey

Limp Gawd
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or uses RGB cables?

That was a question? If you're reffering to those older monitors which connect via 4 BNC cables and you asking if it would play Blu-Ray/HD-DVD media in 1080p the same way that any other analogue cable bypasses the HDCP (D-Sub / Component)?... Then Yes it would. ICT is the only thing that could stop you watching 1080p media through analogue cables and it's currently due to be introduced in 2012 although this change, it has several times already.
 

Skrying

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It's true that HDCP is only carried on digital cables but are you suggesting that the Xbox 360's HD-DVD player doesn't output 1080p because it doesn't have a digital connection? Because that's wrong. All content, DRM or not, can be output at full resolution through analogue cables with no DRM/problems until the 'Image Constraint Token' (ICT) is applied to media. ICT is what will will downscale HD to 960x540 but not until at least 2012. Since this monitor does not have an analogue input the only thing it will be restricted by is ICT. Of course the only way to get HD media on it would be through a VGA cable or Component cable (if it supports it).

No, I wasn't suggesting at all that analog was going to limit the resolution. I know full well that you can get 1080p out of the Xbox 360's HD-DVD player, I enjoyed a few of the movies in fact at a friends not but about two weekends ago. But the second point you bring up is what I was alluding too.

However, you seemed informed on the subject much more than me so I have a few questions if you do not mind:

1.) If using a digital connection that is not HDCP capable will the movie simply not play from a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray source?
2.) If the connection is analog it is not effected at all?

Thanks.
 

dualblade

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Yep, 360's HD-DVD works over VGA all the way up to 1080P.

oh, i know. what i said is that there's no hdcp on analog connections. hdcp stands for high definition content protection: it's the drm that usually accompanies hdmi connections, and sometimes with dvi. it's only necessary to have hdcp on your connection if the constrain token is set by the content producer. analog connections will never have hdcp, since the key isn't transmitted through an analog signal (only a digital one)
 

BinarySynapse

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oh, i know. what i said is that there's no hdcp on analog connections. hdcp stands for high definition content protection: it's the drm that usually accompanies hdmi connections, and sometimes with dvi. it's only necessary to have hdcp on your connection if the constrain token is set by the content producer. analog connections will never have hdcp, since the key isn't transmitted through an analog signal (only a digital one)

HDCP stands for High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection, not High Definition Content Protection
 

artmonkey

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1.) If using a digital connection that is not HDCP capable will the movie simply not play from a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray source?

That's correct, if the player is trying to send a signal with HDCP but the cable doesn't support it then the signal would be stopped completely.
2.) If the connection is analog it is not effected at all?
Also corerect, as long as there is no 'Image Constarint Token' (ICT) applied. Microsoft's Xbox360 could be a very strong argument to get rid of the ICT completely (at the moment scheduled for 2012). Otherwise there will be millions of very angry consumers with downscaled resolutions.
 
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That's correct, if the player is trying to send a signal with HDCP but the cable doesn't support it then the signal would be stopped completely.

Also corerect, as long as there is no 'Image Constarint Token' (ICT) applied. Microsoft's Xbox360 could be a very strong argument to get rid of the ICT completely (at the moment scheduled for 2012). Otherwise there will be millions of very angry consumers with downscaled resolutions.

Unfortunately most of the public is clueless when it comes to stuff like this. I know several people who purchased a PS3 and connect it using component to watch Blu Ray movies when they have an HDCP HDMI port on their set. They didn't realize the output was being downrezzed until I told them.
 

BinarySynapse

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Unfortunately most of the public is clueless when it comes to stuff like this. I know several people who purchased a PS3 and connect it using component to watch Blu Ray movies when they have an HDCP HDMI port on their set. They didn't realize the output was being downrezzed until I told them.

You told your friend wrong. Nothing is being downsized because ICT isn't being used right now. And it's not going to be used until 2012 (or later if at all)

EDIT: You know, I just assumed that you meant that the PS3 was down-converting the signal because of the analog connection. Are you by chance referring to the "fact" (foro lack of a better word) that a lot of HDTV don't accept a 1080p signal via the component cables? If that's the case then I apologize and you are correct as long as the TV actually does this. Although, I would guress that the TV wouldn't show anything if it doesn't support 1080p.
 

Scyles

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You told your friend wrong. Nothing is being downsized because ICT isn't being used right now. And it's not going to be used until 2012 (or later if at all)

From AVS Forum:

"The probelm is not the component signal.
That signal will do 1080p60 without any problems.

BUT the licenses governing BD-ROM A/V do NOT allow 1080p outputs on analog connectors. The maximum permissible output resolution is 1080i60. This has nothing to do with the ICT flag btw, so it doesn't matter if ICT=0 or ICT=1."

I verified this on a Bluray forum as well, but I'm still not 100% sure on this. So, 1080i on component?
 

BinarySynapse

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From AVS Forum:

"The probelm is not the component signal.
That signal will do 1080p60 without any problems.

BUT the licenses governing BD-ROM A/V do NOT allow 1080p outputs on analog connectors. The maximum permissible output resolution is 1080i60. This has nothing to do with the ICT flag btw, so it doesn't matter if ICT=0 or ICT=1."

I verified this on a Bluray forum as well, but I'm still not 100% sure on this. So, 1080i on component?


From the blu-ray FAQ at http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

1.12 Will Blu-ray down-convert analog outputs?


No, Blu-ray players will not down-convert the analog output signal unless the video contains something called an Image Constraint Token (ICT). This feature is not part of the Blu-ray Disc spec, but of the AACS copy-protection system also adopted by HD-DVD. In the end it will be up to each movie studio to decide if they want to use this "feature" on their releases or not. The good news is that Sony, Disney, Fox, Paramount, MGM and Universal have already stated that they have no intention of using this feature. The other studios, which have yet to announce their plans, will most likely follow suit to avoid getting bad publicity. If any of the studios still decide to use ICT they will have to state this on the cover of their movies, so you should have no problem avoiding these titles.
 
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That was a question? If you're reffering to those older monitors which connect via 4 BNC cables and you asking if it would play Blu-Ray/HD-DVD media in 1080p the same way that any other analogue cable bypasses the HDCP (D-Sub / Component)?... Then Yes it would. ICT is the only thing that could stop you watching 1080p media through analogue cables and it's currently due to be introduced in 2012 although this change, it has several times already.

sorry, here it is a little clearer.

Good luck if you want to play a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD with HDCP (all movies) through an old LCD with DVI and no HDCP support. Unless, of course, someone bypasses the HDCP.

or uses RGB cables?
 

artmonkey

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I am really confused what you are asking now. Maybe it's just me but that wasn't clear at all. Can you specify exactly what you're asking in a complete and coherent question please? 'RGB cable' is not a real term, if you mean VGA that's already been covered in this thread.
 
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