Here's a thought

C

ChelseaOilman

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 27, 2001
Messages
1,556
Why not be part of the solution instead of part of the problem?

I see lots of people over here whining and complaining about the situation over at the FCF. I don't see many offering to help. If your so [H]ard, why not help? Surely the #1 team in the world has some talented people that could help out the FCF, instead of just complaining about it. I'm more than willing to give up my mod position to anyone willing to replace me. It's not like I'm getting paid to take all the abuse. Please, if you think you can do better, take me up on my offer.

On a good note, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Stephane Renaud, aka Xilikon, for all his help in putting together the installation guides for the different clients. Don't worry, you won't have to go to the FCF to view them, they will be available at the main Stanford F@H page shortly. I would like to thank Sunin as well, as I believe some of his work went into the guides. Thank you both.

Carl
 
So one of the forum admins is a huge douche bag ?

this is interesting, never seen any drama over folding before lol
 
It's not really anything new. Lots of people are willing to tell you what a lousy job your doing, but aren't willing to take the bull by the horns. lol
 
ChelseaOilman,

I don't believe anyone here has an issue with you specifically, not that I'm aware of. This year is a very eventful year for F@H. The DC project has seen many changes that affected all clients. Even though we have had smooth sailing through some of these changes, there have been certain situations that ruffled a few feathers. I don't believe that any of these perceived obstacles are insurmountable. With change comes immense opportunity, so a bit of drama might ultimately result in progress for the project. :)

BTW, how's MPC?

 
ChelseaOilman said:
Examples: Wow and Abuse of folders

Please, I'm pleading with you, take my job! Lot's of abuse and no reward! You can have it!
Click to expand...

These are examples of us whining in our own forum. Surely you aren't worried about that. What family doesn't grumble about things in their own house. I don't think a lot of us get over to the foldingforum.org. What specific ruckus have the [H] members been causing you or your forum? I haven't seen anything about folks complaining about you specifically on this forum. :confused:

I think the only thing I have seen is the post about FLECOM's 800 installs of the uniprocessor client. I personally think he had a very valid question about the value of the uniprocessor client relative to others.

Folding at home is a very public project. It requires the resources of the general public to accomplish its stated goal of "understanding protein folding..." It should not be surprising that the public should have opinions/concerns about what is going on. Constructive external oversight is a good thing! If people are pointing out bugs, issues, and concerns that's good. The interactions on both sides however should occur with the civility and respect that everyone deserves.

 
AMD_Gamer said:
So one of the forum admins is a huge douche bag ?

this is interesting, never seen any drama over folding before lol
Click to expand...

Thats because you stay in the [H] forums mostly. If it starts it isn't allowed to go that far.

APOLLO said:
ChelseaOilman,

I don't believe anyone here has an issue with you specifically, not that I'm aware of. This year is a very eventful year for F@H. The DC project has seen many changes that affected all clients. Even though we have had smooth sailing through some of these changes, there have been certain situations that ruffled a few feathers. I don't believe that any of these perceived obstacles are insurmountable. With change comes immense opportunity, so a bit of drama might ultimately result in progress for the project. :)

BTW, how's MPC?

Click to expand...

I stay in the [H] for the most part. I go to some of the other teams forums from time to time (like hitting a bee hive then running :p) But I've never seen your name as one that ppl complained on.

I do thank you for your job (I don't have the time or the patience) There are some over there that seem to be short with with people (not that some don't deserve it).

 
APOLLO said:
I don't believe anyone here has an issue with you specifically, not that I'm aware of.
Click to expand...
In particular I didn't appreciate this post from someone I used to respect. Notice we've both been members of this forum for 7.4 years. I was one of the original members of the [H] F@H team, back when it was F@H1. Back then he was much more inspiring. Lately he just seems angry all the time. Maybe it's the pressure of trying to run his own business getting to him. :confused:

APOLLO said:
BTW, how's MPC?
Click to expand...
It's good till December 31. I'm a floater. January 1, 2009 I'll be somewhere else.
 
HighYield said:
I haven't seen anything about folks complaining about you specifically on this forum. :confused:
Click to expand...
See my previous post. Relic's comment wasn't justified. I think everyone is allowed to have a bad day. I did apologize to Jaga for the comment.

Please go through all my posts on the FCF, or anywhere else for that matter, and show me a pattern of me giving people a hard time.
 
I do agree with ChelseaOilman that whining about FCF is not the solution. However, I also that 7im is a real problem and I do know that the PandeGroup and the admins is annoyed at him right now. However, beside 7im, everyone is great to deal with including Vijay.

I've had lots of lengthy discussions with Vijay lately about the recent v6 issues, guides and FCF moderation issues. I feel that he is open to suggestions and he did indeed implement what I suggested (like the 5.91/5.92 rerelease for the people irritated by the 6.22 EUE handling change). Keep in mind that he is a true scientist and he's specialized in the folding dept. Being a scientist doesn't mean that he followed some courses in public relations or in project management so we should spare him some criticisms. If you have something to express, talk with Vijay in a polite manner and I'm sure he will listen.

However, don't take this as a act of blessing toward the FCF and PandeGroup. I still have issues with 7im (more than everyone else, trust me) and I'm discussing with Bruce and Vijay. They know that I did nothing and 7im is just acting as a dickhead, maybe because he's fearing me... I doesn't always like the move by the PandeGroup on certain things but I'm a real [H]orde member so I decided to discuss like adults instead of whining.

Remember, don't put all the eggs in the same basket ;)

 
ChelseaOilman said:
from someone I used to respect...
Click to expand...

Dido.

I personally can not believe the true hatred and disdain which flows from Relic's fingers towards the FAH project/VJ. There are many more posts form Relic which are nothing but negative in view towards FAH and the FCF forums. All the griping which has been done before pales in comparison towards self induced war on FAH. I can't for the life of me image why anyone would continue to participate in a program with his portrayed views on the issues.

Then BillR comes along and from what I can gather makes posts to play towards Relic's ego or something. Yea, BillR has always been grumpy but since Relic's return BillR sure has fallen onto the hatred band wagon.

Those negative posts are not good for the project they are supposedly supporting. I should know, I've made them before.

Regarding FCF forums, good luck ChelseaOilman. I think that place is more screwed than just about anything else! ;) New ideas to fix things, I don't know- new mods/new look/new koolaid... I've personally found your one post there as out of line, but over 5x years ChelseaOilman has always been one of the post level headed and helpful people in the entire FAH program.

I'm guessing Relic has aided in getting some front page mention on [H] which is always good for the project. I must say the "legend" of Relic and the reality are two very different things. Perhaps legends are meant to stay that way for a reason.

Good luck Ches.
 
marty9876 said:
New ideas to fix things, I don't know- new mods/new look/new koolaid...
Click to expand...
Hi Marty,

Good to see your still around! :)

I agree, pretty much what I said:
ChelseaOilman said:
I see lots of people over here whining and complaining about the situation over at the FCF. I don't see many offering to help.
Click to expand...

The problem is, complaining isn't enough. If people want changes, or somebody replaced, someone needs to step up to the plate to fill the void. ;)
 
ChelseaOilman said:
Hi Marty,

Good to see your still around! :)

I agree, pretty much what I said:


The problem is, complaining isn't enough. If people want changes, or somebody replaced, someone needs to step up to the plate to fill the void. ;)
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'm more than willing to step up but not to replace you. The only guy I want to replace is 7im !

 
getalong.jpg


 
ChelseaOilman said:
Why not be part of the solution instead of part of the problem?

I see lots of people over here whining and complaining about the situation over at the FCF. I don't see many offering to help. If your so [H]ard, why not help? Surely the #1 team in the world has some talented people that could help out the FCF, instead of just complaining about it. I'm more than willing to give up my mod position to anyone willing to replace me. It's not like I'm getting paid to take all the abuse. Please, if you think you can do better, take me up on my offer.

On a good note, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Stephane Renaud, aka Xilikon, for all his help in putting together the installation guides for the different clients. Don't worry, you won't have to go to the FCF to view them, they will be available at the main Stanford F@H page shortly. I would like to thank Sunin as well, as I believe some of his work went into the guides. Thank you both.

Carl
Click to expand...

One of the posts to which you make reference is obviously mine. Feel free to use my name if you are going to complain about me, I’ve said nothing that hasn’t been the truth. No reason to be evasive about it.

Prior to that particular post I had been in communication with both 7im as well as VJ. Very little of those and other conversations had to do with the community forum. The vast majority of the social intercourse had to do with bad code and a complete lack of parity in the point’s structure. Those two issues are still a problem and in fact the code problems have become worse.

The points issue is all but moot to me. Folders who have been here only a year or two have blown by me and that will continue to happen. My concern over points is based on the loss of individual members who start out with all the enthusiasm in the world only to realize that what we do is expensive on many levels and the rules change in the middle of the game way too often. They become discouraged and move on. No matter how you cut it that is not productive.

In this forum people can find help virtually 24 hours a day and of late we are seeing more people from other teams coming here because when they have a problem they find the use of the community forum usually escalates the problem or they are insulted out the door.

In that regard we are in fact part of the solution and not part of the problem. When you look at the total number of folders against the population in the community forum you have to wonder why.

Why do I continue to fold and support this forum instead of taking my ball and going home? Easy, I really believe in the cause. Why is that so hard to understand? Turning off my machines certainly won’t help. Changing teams won’t help and moving to WCG or one of the alternatives won’t help folding. One might say I am vested in this project and I’m not going to quit.

That in no way shape or form means I won’t do as much as possible to affect change when and where I can. At the same time I have no illusion of ever being the number one guy on any team, unless of course I start a one man team but I don’t have that much ego to stroke.

Marty commented to me one day he was leaving the [H] because he knew he could never go much further then he was. His motives are his own and I hold nothing against that. In fact I’ve seen Marty contribute to various teams that needed a boost which I think is commendable. The point is he does what feels right to him which is as it should be. I do what is right for me, either way the project benefits so how is that a bad thing?

As to relic, clearly nobody knows him very well if they think I have any influence over his thinking. The totally absurd nature of that idea truly makes me laugh out loud for real.

My issues are pretty simple actually and having stated them time and again and I see no reason to go into great depth again, just read my post that Chelsea so thoughtfully assigned a link.

Stanford purports to support VJ in the battle for various diseases. Yet, for an institute of higher education we are continually treated to a total lack of organization, untested code and an attitude of superiority from those who feel they are under no obligation to be held accountable in any way shape or form.

To sum it up for simplicity, VJ has at his fingertips millions upon millions of dollars in computers and the people who run them and treats people as if we owe him that. That is my argument; it really is abuse and at the same time an immense loss not to mention a waste of resources.

Chelsea, as you pointed out, we are the number one team so I think that makes us a huge part of the solution. The fact that a few posts seem to have upset you and perhaps others would cause one to wonder why more isn’t being done on your end, not ours. That alone seems to point the finger of part of the problem in a different direction, don’t you think?

If you feel the abuse you take at your forum is more then you care to deal with than you owe it to yourself to do something else.

As to Marty’s comments on me being grumpy, no, I’m cynical, stubborn and in my own way a bit of a perfectionist. Add to that my distain for elitist stupidity and that pretty much defines me, I'm not that complex;)




 
I saw your post over @ the home forum from may, I never once saw you get outa pocket, and you had very valid points that I agree on, for instance one of my teamates spent 10,000 on hardware earlier this year, and last month, I got 6 $79 video cards that produce more points, thats not right, it will run people off fast !I go over to the home forum all the time and try and help them out, if the people over there were a lil more respectful, maybe more people would and the mods would have less work todo. Iam a network admin and also own a pc business,so I think Im a lil more knowlegebale than the avg FAH user,but every single time anyone posts there is a problem over there they get attacked, and I dont care how nice they do it.It seems everyone would like to avoid it, like its not happening. It normally goes like this, hi welcome to our forum, then why are you so stupid.My question is how do you change it, How does it get fixed. The A2 core is supposed to scale well to more than 2 cores,yet has only been assigned to dual cores, I made many posts asking knowone responded(its a secret) so yesterday finally I posted for VJ and Kasson, Kasson responded like he had no Idea 8 core boxed werent getting A2(there had just been an update post about the as servers now being setup for 3,4,6,8,16 core boxes few days before), he then told me he tweaked the assignment server, I got A2 on the next WU, I was very happy,until my dual core setups that been getting nothing but A2 got 5102 on the very next WU, the 8 core box got a new A2 core 2.01 that crashed at sending the wu(2.00 I had no issues with it just worked), and it was lost,even qfix didnt fix it.This is server hardware ECC ram ect, Anyway I dont want to seem negative, I think R you were talking about got pushed over the edge with them and I certainly understand that.I do know this people on teams expect teamates to stick together, and teams not sticking together are just as harmful as asshole admins,like 7im Have a great day !
I
 
I saw your post over @ the home forum from may, I never once saw you get outa pocket, and you had very valid points that I agree on, for instance one of my teamates spent 10,000 on hardware earlier this year, and last month, I got 6 $79 video cards that produce more points, thats not right, it will run people off fast !I go over to the home forum all the time and try and help them out, if the people over there were a lil more respectful, maybe more people would and the mods would have less work todo. Iam a network admin and also own a pc business,so I think Im a lil more knowlegebale than the avg FAH user,but every single time anyone posts there is a problem over there they get attacked, and I dont care how nice they do it.It seems everyone would like to avoid it, like its not happening. It normally goes like this, hi welcome to our forum, then why are you so stupid.My question is how do you change it, How does it get fixed. The A2 core is supposed to scale well to more than 2 cores,yet has only been assigned to dual cores, I made many posts asking knowone responded(its a secret) so yesterday finally I posted for VJ and Kasson, Kasson responded like he had no Idea 8 core boxed werent getting A2(there had just been an update post about the as servers now being setup for 3,4,6,8,16 core boxes few days before), he then told me he tweaked the assignment server, I got A2 on the next WU, I was very happy,until my dual core setups that been getting nothing but A2 got 5102 on the very next WU, the 8 core box got a new A2 core 2.01 that crashed at sending the wu(2.00 I had no issues with it just worked), and it was lost,even qfix didnt fix it.This is server hardware ECC ram ect, Anyway I dont want to seem negative, I think R you were talking about got pushed over the edge with them and I certainly understand that.I do know this people on teams expect teamates to stick together, and teams not sticking together are just as harmful as asshole admins,like 7im Have a great day !
I
 
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