Help! Trying to install Ubuntu...

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ClariorHincHonos

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
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Ok guys. This is my second attempt at trying linux and I'm just about ready to give up.

I'm trying to complete a basic install of Ubuntu on a Tforce 7025 based system with a RAID1 array built with the nvidia raid utility. I've got the GUI install to see the array using the dmraid utility, and I had a root, swap, and home partition built. When I proceeded to install it told me one of these partitions was missing and put me back at the partition manager. I tried to fix whatever was wrong (it seemed like it was missing two of them for whatever reason). Well it didn't work so I came back to it another day. Well, I've deleted all of the partitions in an effort to start from scratch and now once I partition the root it tells me the rest of the array is unusable even though I haven't used it all. At this point I'm pretty frustrated as I haven't even gotten it installed yet. Starting to wonder if it's even worth it. Anyway, if anyone is able to help me get this on the right track I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
 
best bet would likely be to try www.ubuntuforums.org if you haven't already. I'm not sure though as I don't use RAID, but could you install on one harddrive then shift it over to RAID 1?
 
Ok, so I found this: http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_dapper_raid_system_p1

I made it to page 2 but I'm having problems at the bottom. When you're supposed to copy the system files over to the newly created install directory it cannot find or is not pointed toward the right directory. Tells me each one of those directories does not exist:

cp /etc/resolv.conf /install/etc/
cp /etc/hosts /install/etc/
cp /etc/hostname /install/etc/
cp /etc/apt/sources.list /install/etc/apt/
cp /etc/network/interfaces /install/etc/network/

gets me:

root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/resolv.conf /install/etc/
cp: target `/install/etc/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/hosts /install/etc/
cp: target `/install/etc/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/hostname /install/etc/
cp: target `/install/etc/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/apt/sources.list /install/etc/apt/
cp: target `/install/etc/apt/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/network/interfaces /install/etc/network/
cp: target `/install/etc/network/' is not a directory: No such file or directory

kind of stuck here. any suggestions? Going to bed for now.
 
ClariorHincHonos said:
Hmm...you know I did / the first time, but I got dumb and tried /root the other tries. Don't think it will make a difference (because of my RAID), but I'll try it.
Click to expand...
Changing this didn't help. I'm sure I was doing it wrong, but for whatever reason if I created one partition in the GUI install deal it would mark the rest of the drive as unusable.
 
Ubuntu supports software RAID1 which is built into the kernel if you use the "alternate cd" and is for superior than hardware RAID IMO. I have never had luck w/ nVidia RAID controllers as plug and play - you will need to load the modeules into the kernel yourself which seems pointless and time consuming when every Linux OS supports mdadm (Software RAID) into the kernel.

Take advantage of what is already provided.
 
I recommend not using RAID at all. This is your first foray into Linux, so keep it simple.
 
Well, while I appreciate the advice, I had to put in a bit of work to get the drives there for the RAID 1, so I'd like to use it. Besides-it seems like it's working so far-I just got stuck at the point above.
 
If you're hellbent on using RAID, then I advise not using the nVidia RAID functionality. Use Linux software RAID instead. Quite a few posters here use Linux RAID and will be able to help you.
 
If the default kernel supports your raid controller, shouldnt the array just show up as unpartitioned space? I don't see what the reason is to be copying things to /install or whatever, because you don't have anything installed at that point.. you should be able to boot off a live cd, and then run the install app, and let it do its thing. Unless I'm missing something?

I would get to the point where it asks about partitions, and try just letting it partition the whole drive as / just to see if it will install instead of trying to partition it yourself.
 
It does show up once I load dmraid-I have it partitioned and partially loaded-however the GUI install won't work, so I have to do it by command line. I'm following a guide made for this-however I believe I might have run into an error in the guide or need some updated information for 7.04 since the guide was written for 6.06. http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_dapper_raid_system

The steps at the bottom of page two (which are up above in my posts) are what are giving me errors. As far as I can tell it's trying to copy the files but either it's not reading from the cd, or the directories on the cd have changed in the new version. It really seems like a simple problem, I just don't have the knowledge to fix it.
 
Cryptic1911 said:
If the default kernel supports your raid controller, shouldnt the array just show up as unpartitioned space?
Click to expand...

Yes, the kernel would be able to see the RAID, but the Ubuntu installer might not be programmed to pick up the dmraid device nodes, or activate the array after boot. There just isn't much support out there for dmraid as compared to mdraid, which is why I tried to discourage the OP from using it.
The steps at the bottom of page two (which are up above in my posts) are what are giving me errors.
Click to expand...
What errors are you getting? It would be nice if you could cut'n'paste your terminal session into a post.
 
Bones said:
Yes, the kernel would be able to see the RAID, but the Ubuntu installer might not be programmed to pick up the dmraid device nodes, or activate the array after boot. There just isn't much support out there for dmraid as compared to mdraid, which is why I tried to discourage the OP from using it.

What errors are you getting? It would be nice if you could cut'n'paste your terminal session into a post.
Click to expand...
I did...about 5-6 posts ago. I posted the commands and then the results I get from inputting those commands. Also-then machines is still on-has been the whole time. So if you need more I can cut and paste. Here it is again:

cp /etc/resolv.conf /install/etc/
cp /etc/hosts /install/etc/
cp /etc/hostname /install/etc/
cp /etc/apt/sources.list /install/etc/apt/
cp /etc/network/interfaces /install/etc/network/

gets me:

root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/resolv.conf /install/etc/
cp: target `/install/etc/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/hosts /install/etc/
cp: target `/install/etc/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/hostname /install/etc/
cp: target `/install/etc/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/apt/sources.list /install/etc/apt/
cp: target `/install/etc/apt/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
root@ubuntu:~# cp /etc/network/interfaces /install/etc/network/
cp: target `/install/etc/network/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
 
I was fishing for the output of that bootstrap utility. It should have made the appropriate directories in /install.
 
This part was enlightening:
Code: 
root@ubuntu:~# debootstrap $SETUP_UBUNTU_VER /install
E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/fiesty
That bootstrap script apparently doesn't support a "fiesty" target. Either the script is expecting something else, or it simply doesn't support the latest Ubuntu. Don't take this the wrong way, but you should have stopped there; continuing to blindly issue commands, as root, after an error seldom results in a happy ending.

I suggest taking a look at that bootstrap script, and try to figure out if it supports the latest Ubuntu with some other name (not "fiesty"). Also, that article was walking you through manually installing Debian/Ubuntu. If you're willing to go that far, you may as well install Gentoo ;)

There is another approach you can take to installing Ubuntu to your RAID. You could install to a separate disk, and then copy that installation over to your RAID set. Of course, that would require an extra disk. Or you could avoid all of this pain by not using dmraid.
 
I have to say that it's kind of disappointing to see this much trouble with nVidia raid. With so many enthusiasts using RAID these days, you'd think it wouldn't be this hard. Does Ubuntu support PCI controller cards? Or is it just as much of a pain?

I'm really going to have to think about this. I may just throw S2003 on this and be done with it. The sole purpose of this machine is to be a game server for LAN parties. I originally intended to put S2003 on it, but decided I'd try Ubuntu for kicks and to learn a bit more about linux for work (we use CentOS there, but I figured working with any command line would be helpful). I spent a few hours playing musical hardware to get these drives into this machine, and had my main media server lose it's OS along the way. So after all the work and pain, I'd like to see it work.
 
I have to say that it's kind of disappointing to see this much trouble with nVidia raid. With so many enthusiasts using RAID these days, you'd think it wouldn't be this hard.
Click to expand...

Linux RAID is not hard. NVidia RAID, and several other so-called "fake RAID" controllers, can work in Linux using the device mapper (dm) driver. However, as you discovered, dmraid is not very well supported, especially compared to the alternative - multiple device (md) RAID. Both mdraid and dmraid are software RAID, and you won't find an appreciable performance difference between them. If you think that nVidia RAID with dmraid is somehow better than mdraid, you are mistaken (especially from a support standpoint). Dmraid's main advantage is that it can use an array that can also be seen by Windows, which only matters if you dual-boot that box.

The dmraid support situation is not an issue for anybody with some Linux experience. However, it is an issue for a newbie trying to install a distro. You aren't doing yourself any favors by using unofficial installation methods in an attempt to use a RAID type that is not well supported by your distro of choice. Which brings me back to my original advice, to not use RAID at all, or use md RAID instead (which has Ubuntu installer support, if I'm not mistaken).

Does Ubuntu support PCI controller cards?
Click to expand...

Linux supports true hardware RAID controllers, like the Areca and 3ware offerings. Anything else is software RAID via dmraid or mdraid. This isn't unique to Linux, either - your nVidia RAID controller is also software RAID in Windows.

Or is it just as much of a pain?
Click to expand...

If there is a distro out there that supports one-click installation to a dmraid set, I don't know of it. I'm sorry if I'm coming across a bit harshly, but I've seen too many people try to do Linux "the Windows way" and wind up frustrated. I'm trying to save you that aggravation by giving you sound advice.
 
I appreciate your input and assistance Bones. I tried to do some reading on mdraid but had a hard time finding a basic explanation of how it works exactly. From what I've gathered from you and bits here and there is that mdraid is essentially an OS RAID setup, all controlled by the processor? If this is the case what kind of performance hit will I have in overall operation?

I should probably voice my concerns so I make a bit more sense. I have a X2 3600 Brisbane, 1GB 667 (for now) and a pair of 36GB Raptors. I'd like to run two game servers (say CS:S and BF2) at the same time. I've also got two PCI GbE NICs along with the onboard GbE NIC. Basically I'm going to try to split the system down the middle and run both of the servers. I'd like to have a RAID 1 for this, as I think that would be best for read performance. I'm sure something like a raid 5/10 or better would provide better performance, but I'm working with what I have. My worry is that if I use the software RAID it will slow things down. I will admit this might be foolish-dmraid might do the same thing-but in my experience it worked ok. At this point I'm considering a PCI controller. I'd like to avoid any extra cost, but it might be the only sensible thing to do.

But then again-since Linux runs a lot lighter maybe any performance hit I would see with software RAID would be negated?

I'd really like to get this installed as I need to learn about Linux. I like working in the datacenter I'm at now and would like to continue to work in that environment-so learning Linux will help. If it's not workable on this system I'll probably get something else setup, or buy a secondary drive for this.
 
mdraid is what most people mean when they say "Linux software RAID". It is RAID implemented at the kernel level. When initializing an md array, the setup utility writes information (called a RAID superblock) to each drive in a predetermined location. When booting, the kernel md driver scans each disk for such a superblock, and activates any arrays it finds automatically. An mdraid array is given its own device node, and looks just like any normal disk to the kernel and userspace.

For dmraid, the superblocks are created by the fakeraid BIOS utility when the array is first initialized. A different kernel driver (the device mapper driver) is involved in handling the array, but it is software RAID just like mdraid.

dmraid will have the same CPU hit as mdraid (they are both software RAIDs). On a fast system like yours, the overhead of software RAID-1 is essentially zero. An aftermarket PCI controller won't change anything unless it is true hardware RAID, in which case you should check for kernel drivers before purchasing... although I think it would be kinda pointless to use an expensive hardware RAID card just for RAID-1.
 
Well, mdraid it is I guess. I looked at controller cards and it was little under $200. Pricey for a RAID 1. Any links for a guide or instructions for mdraid? I think it needs the alternate cd correct? (Good thing I downloaded it)
 
I believe Ubuntu's alternate install cd supports mdraid, but I'm not 100% sure. I haven't done an Ubuntu install since version 6.something.
 
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