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Help selecting watercooling components

N

n64man120

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
3,498
I've done tons of research on websites and searching the [H], and now I've managed to narrow down my choices.

Basic Idea of What I'm looking to do:
  1. Watercool my 3700+ San Diego and 6800GT to yield a good overclock
  2. Keep total price range around $200-$250 if possible
  3. Quietest setup without sacraficing much performance
  4. Aesthetically pleasing, looking for big tubes and pump/rad out of sight

That being said, so far I've purchased a 77' Bonneville Heatercore. I plan to put it along with 2 120mm Panaflos, and a shroud, in the upper 2 5.25" drive bays. Air will be pulled off rad and out the top of the case.

I have heard lot's of good feedback about the TDX block for my CPU, and a Maze4 for my GPU. I'm open to any feedback on these, but I hear them repeated over and over.

Any reccomendations for the pump? I've heard good things about the D5 and DDC-12V pumps. Swiftec makes same ones, just rebranded, as well? I like the DDC-12V for it's size and noise, but I wouldn't want it if it hindered the performance too much.

Below is a picture of my case, with some MSPaint of what I thought would be the best routing.

water_loop.JPG



That being said, here's a few questions and thoughts I currently have:

  1. Accellerator nozzels on the CPU? What do they do and should I bother?
  2. 1/2" OD, 1/2" ID, 3/8" ID? I've seen lots of sizes, and I like the look of big tubes but I don't want it to kink. Thinking 1/2" ID?
  3. Importance of fan shroud size? My calculations show if it's bigger than 3/4" I'll end up using part of the 3rd drive bay.
  4. Tygon or Clearflex, this has been beaten to death but I figured I'd throw it in there.
  5. Which pump should I go with? DDC-12V looks great, but is it strong enough for my loop?
  6. If not the DDC-12V, what pump should I use? If I use any other, I'll have to either mod or remove that floppy bay for it to fit, but I can manage that if needed.
  7. What is needed in the fluid, just distilled water and a cheap additive? I saw that MCT-5 stuff on the DD site for free with $100, should I even bother with it?

Well that's everything in my mind right now, let me know what you think would be the best picks.

Thanks,
Eric
 
1. Accelerator plates found on the TDX & RBX can essentially adjust the block's impingement design to fit your pump, ie use a more restrictive plate that will cool better if you have a powerful enough pump.
2. 1/2"id is dead right now, and you should not use tubing with this id. As Cathar has enlightened us, current pumps don't utilize the extra flow benefits from using 1/2" instead of 3/8" fittings, but loops will still receive extra flow by using tubing larger than 3/8"id. The compromise is to use tubing with a 7/16"id that will slip over 1/2" barbs easily (giving a nice snug fit) and 3/32" walls for a 5/8"od that will be very flexible, won't kink except under extreme turns. Basically, use 7/16"id-5/8"od tubing, unless you like really big tubing that will be pretty difficult to route unless you get Tygon 3603.
3. The PA160 uses a 10mm or 0.4" tall shroud, and I'd suggest not making one shorter than that above the fins.
4. Tygon won't stain for much longer than Clearflex and flexes better, but CLearflex is cheaper and turns just about as well as Tygon. When looking for 7/16"id-5/8"od tubing, at McMaster-Carr part # 5233K44 is $0.37/foot, while Tygon 54047 is $2.18/foot. Your decision really.
5. A DDC will likely work very well, but the D5 is about the same price and gives more flow while being just a tiny bit louder. The D5 is bigger, so that may have some impact on your decision, and the DDC can have greatly increased flow with this mod.
6. As said before, a D5 will give more flow unless you have an extremely restrictive loop, but the DDC does take up less space and is a little quieter.
7. MCT-5 is supposed to be the only fluid in your loop, and if you get it for free, why not use it? The classic alternative is simply uisng 90% distilled water & 10% antifreeze to prevent any corrosion, and maybe some aquarium algaecide if you don't think antifreeze will be able to kill anything trying to grow in your loop.
 
1. the accelerator nozzles on a TDX are GOOD, get them
2. I would get 3/8" ID because it is more readily available than 7/16 (sold at DD). As he said, 1/2" ID is a waste and looks bad
3. You can run without a shroud if you want. I would buy one so that you can use the drive bay.
4. Tygon, doesn't cloud or kink.
5. Get the DD D5. It will power your loop well, even if you get the extra nozzles. Also, you can get the D5 and TDX for a combo price of $108 on DD (BIG savings)
6. ditto^
7. MCT-40 has the same deal, I would get that. MCT is everything you need in a water additive, AND it's free, AND it's a huge bottle so it will last you forever. GET IT.

Get the Maze4 for your GPU block.

o, and please check out my thread in my sig. It has a detailed and linked list of a good performing but cheap watercooling setup, including prices. The total is like $260 and it includes a GPU block:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=898255
(My setup is pretty much the same as yours, TDX/D5 bundle, possible double heatercore (or BIP2).
 
Russ said:
1/2" ID is a waste and looks bad
Click to expand...
ikellensbro said:
1/2"id is dead right now, and you should not use tubing with this id.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
Did you see the OP's statement
n64man120 said:
Aesthetically pleasing, looking for big tubes
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with using 1/2" tubing.... it won't decrease performance, and if he thinks it looks nice, then by all means get the 1/2". The only bend that will even be close will be the GPU to the CPU... and it's still doable, especially with Tygon.
 
ikellensbro, would that that 1/16" less ID really not be a problem on a 1/2" system. Im thinking about using pretty much all danger den components, but i dont see what the problem is with 1/2". does anyone else agree that 7/16" ID would be better than 1/2"
 
Light1984 said:
does anyone else agree that 7/16" ID would be better than 1/2"
Click to expand...
7/16" is the new rage because it's a nice blend of 3/8" and 1/2". It works just as well as 1/2" in terms of performance, is a little easier to route, and some people think it looks better. But whether big tubs are good or bad is definitly subjective. To each his own
 
I like the sound of the 7/16", especially since I'm in a Mid-Tower case so it's not huge.

I saw someone meantion MCT-40 instead of MCT-5. Well I'm not phase changing, so I wont be at either of those temps. And benches show a light temp increase with MCT-40.

I'll probably pay the premium and get Tygon, better than being fustrated in the end.

So my main thing still is the D5 or the DDC-12V. Both are out of stock at DangerDen...? How's a guy supposed to get a pump around here :confused:
 
7/16" ID tubing fits on 1/2" OD barbs.

what blocks did you decide on?
 
TDX with Accellerator nozzles, and Maze4 for 6800 series. Provided I don't hear any negative feedback on them.
 
good choices. If you wait until the D5 comes back in stock at DD, then be sure to get the combo of TDX + D5.
 
Yea definitly. That's another plus of going D5, the price. But...

DDC-12V = toss in and works
D5 = either hack apart floppy bay, or remove it and fabricate aluminum holdster there, and make it not look crappy. So it can be done but will be a bit more of a pain.

How much better is it, like I guess it's hard to say but with my setup any guesses and the *C drop from one to the other?

Also, if I was to get a D5 or anything but DDC-12V with my setup, how would I mount the pump? Since normally 1 barb is going up, and theres drive bays above that :eek:

Can it just go on side or something? Not sure how that would be managed but sounds easier.
 
You could either mount it upside down from the edge of the 5 1/4" bays that overhang the floppy bays or on the floor of the case
 
Bottom of case is a no-go, something about the look annoys me. That was my thought to mount it on underside of 5.25"s. I'd probably do soemthing like the floppy bay to hide the pump.

But mounting upside down is ok, once it's primed and such?
 
I'd go bottom of the case. That seems to be a very popular option.

edit: I see you just posted you don't want to do that. Well if I can't convince you.... Yeah, I think it should be fine to put the pump upside down. I'm not sure if you could put it in absolutely any direction you wanted, but directly upside down should be fine.
 
Alright, I know what can be done and my options if I go with a D5.

I'm liking the DDC-12V for it's size more and more however, but if it's going to make a big difference in the loop I won't compromise with it.

Edit: Just thought of something else. The hose clamps should be able to be found at Home Depot correct? Also is there any other little things I'm neglecting to think about?
 
Two questions, If I'm going 7/16" ID tubing, do I want to get parts with 3/8" barbs, or 1/2" barbs?

Also, I've been offered a TDX block with Nozzel #5 on it which is most restrictive, or so I've been told. Is this the right one for my setup?
 
#4 and #5 have been shown to have equally the best TDX performance by procooling.

Sure if you are getting the block cheap then get that #5 only. With the D5 you should have the pump power to effectively use the #4 or #5 nozzle.

DEFINIETLY 1/2" barbs. 7/16" is bigger than 3/8" so it will slip off. Common sense, no?
 
I thought that, but I also thought perhaps the hose clamps could just tighten it on there so I wasn't sure. Thanks
 
I'm trying to figure out which tubing to buy. You guys reccomended Tygon 7/16" with thicker walls for routing, which sounds good to me. Someone above linked to this which appears to be it. But I noticed that theres a billion different categorys of Tygon tubing, and the one that link is in doesn't seem to be the same type on Dangerden and other sites.

I wanted to make sure before buying, is that what I want, and if not, which?
 
n64man120 said:
I'm trying to figure out which tubing to buy. You guys reccomended Tygon 7/16" with thicker walls for routing, which sounds good to me. Someone above linked to this which appears to be it. But I noticed that theres a billion different categorys of Tygon tubing, and the one that link is in doesn't seem to be the same type on Dangerden and other sites.

I wanted to make sure before buying, is that what I want, and if not, which?
Click to expand...


If you want 7/16" ID with 3/32" walls, then get part number 54047 on that page you linked to at US Plastics.
 
I'm not exactly sure what I want, but some people were pushing the 7/16" saying how its a good mix and I have to agree with that. Since it's a different style,model line, whatever than the stuff that commonly seems to be bought... I wasn't sure.
 
If you really want the best tubing, then go with Tygon. If you're like me & like things not to cost a ton, then get part #5233K44 at mcmaster.com. 10' cost me $8 shipped :D
 
Well, if your getting a $200+ setup, I figure you might as well spend the $20 more on tubing since that's the part you will see/work with most.
 
Calling all watercooling [H]er's for an educated guess on this one...

I cannot decide between a DangerDen D5, DDC-12V, or DDC-12V modded.

With my setup of 7/16"ID tubing, TDX CPU, Maze4 GPU, 2x120mm Bonneville Rad, and fillport... what do you suggest.

Mainly, what is your guess at the temperature difference I will have between the 3 options. I realize this is very hard to say, but if you have any thoughts it would be very helpfull. The stock DDC-12V would be totally easy to setup, and the headaches only go up from there.
 
Get the D5 because it is the most powerful, and you can get the TDX/D5 combo at DD for $108. If you take the block separately to be $53, thats $55 for the pump! Savings of $20 for top notch performance.
 
Russ said:
Get the D5 because it is the most powerful, and you can get the TDX/D5 combo at DD for $108. If you take the block separately to be $53, thats $55 for the pump! Savings of $20 for top notch performance.
Click to expand...
Sold out right now :(
 
The way I see the 3 options right now:

DDC (stock) is the quietest (modded shouldn't be much louder, if any) & smallest, but comes only with 3/8" barbs. It has the most head of any DC pump currently, but will only give higher flow than a D5 in extremely (read: AC 1/4" loop ;) jk) restrictive loops, otherwise it will have the least flow of the 3.

Modded DDC can have nearly as high of flow as a D5, but has a higher risk of leaks because of cutting & eopoxying, but leaks shouldn't be a problem if the mod is properly done. Other disadvantages could be cosmetics, nearly doubling the effective area the pump will take over the DDC, and the time to perform the mod in the first place.

D5 has the most flow (variable depending on your noise vs. flow preferences), is easyn to mount with the included mounting bracket, and is Laing's latest major DC pump, so it should last a little longer than the older DDC (although if either were to fail, it would likely be during the first few weeks of use), and can be had for cheap with the TDX combo (when the D5 is back in stock @ DD). Drawbacks include the larger size, slightly increased noise, and current availability.
 
Yea, I emailed Danger Den and the D5 should be back some time this week. But I can also get the swiftech branded ones if I must, same thing. That said, I'll have to take some pics of my cardboard models, and what I have planned, so you can see why I'd like the DDC-12V but I don't want to cut down on my performance any significant bit. No guesses on temperature difference?
 
Alright, I came across this link http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=73675

D5 - 8.9 LPM
DDC-12V Mod 8.6 LPM
DDC-12V Stock 6.0 LPM

That's a guy's test of flow rates. I had to fudge it a bit because he didnt have TDX/Maze4GPU loops for everything, but the ratios should be the same now atleast.

How much of a real world difference are these flow rates, temperature and overclocking wise, when considering the DDC-12V has a higher head rating, on these rather restrictive water blocks.
 
You could probably be fine just buying a foot or two of 3/8"id tubing on the bearbs, then using whatever you want to expand to 1/2' fittings for 7/16"id tubing. Then again, if you do the flow mod, then you would be using a 1/2" barb, so you would only have 1 3/8" fitting to worry about.
 
Regarding flow directions...

Pump -> Rad -> CPU -> GPU

or

Pump -> GPU -> CPU -> Rad

Will either of these be ok? It seems to me you should go from pump to cpu, but it's not the best choice routing wise in my situation
 
Whatever gives you the shortes lengths of tubing without any kinks restricting flow. The water temperature will vary at most a degree depending on the order of your components, while using a full 10' of tubing instead of an order that could use just 5' would restrict your flow enough to negate any temperature gain from that order.
 
Alright, that's what I thought regarding doing some crazy loop that's "technically" best but will just look crappy with tons of tubes. But pump into the rad, or pull from the rad?
 
what? It will do both. It's a closed loop. If you look at it, its just water moving in a circle with the pump pushing it and the water blocks and rad delaying it. Everything like heat and flow evens out quickly, so you don't need to worry about arraging the loop any particular way. A lot of people like to have their res (if they have one) right before the pump though.
 
Alright, i suppose it doesnt matter, just thought one way may have more force into the rad. Anyways, T-Line here, but putting it by the pump would still help for bleeding. I'll just do what looks nicest though.

Last Question: Maze4 or Low-Profile? If I'm not going SLI and have lots of room, whcih should I use?
 
they are both Maze4 blocks, and they are very similar. As far as I can see, the only difference is the height. You might get a new mobo and SLI in the future, in which case the low profile would be a good choice. Since they are the same price I'd get the low profile.
 
Eh, I went with the norm. since I figured if nothing else it will look beefier and maybe cool a bit more. Bigger is better tehy say...

But if I do go sli, i'll be kicking myself in the arse :D
 
Just stick the normal Maze4 on the bottom (or top if your case has BTX mobo mounting) and you'll be fine as long as you leave the pci slot bloew (or above) that block free. If all else fails, just sell it, as Maze4 gpus have been out for a long time now, and still are keeping a lot of their value.
 
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