• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Help selecting new NAS setup

JayCTN

n00b
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
12
Ok, I'm looking for some input on a new NAS setup for my home office, I'll go over my current setup, space requirements, and my thoughts for a solution. Any feedback is more than welcome...

First, I want to keep the cost reasonable, less than $1000 for sure before storage... Also keeping in mind that this is a 3 to 4 year solution with Seagate's recent announcement of 60TB drives being on the market by 2016, I don't want to go crazy and build too much storage on 3Gb and 6Gb technology with 10TB to 60TB on the not to distance horizon.

So, today I have 20TB's of raw RAID5 storage, on my network most of this is using Synology 4 disk appliances, plus a very small file server. The synology boxes run 4 2TB WD 5400rpm drives, for a total of 24TB's of storage, these are great little boxes, and have handled drive failures very well over the last couple of years, with no data loss. Having so many separate mount points spread across the network is a bit of a pita.

My file server running mirrored 1TB 7200 WD hard drives, running on a T100 Dell, with 2 Intel 1gb nics. This system is my biggest headache on the planet today, constantly slowing my network down, and the biggest reason I'm looking to upgrade to a bigger better NAS.

A little bit more about how the storage is used... first, I have a small XCP (Xen Cloud Platform) cloud, with a Dell XS23-SB server with 64 megs of memory, this runs my primary production VM cloud, currently I have about 45 VMs running on this system using the file server via NFS, we're in the process of adding a second XS23-SB in the not to distance future, and adding another 50-100 VMs (hence the reason to upgrade storage). I have 2 Dell T110's running a small test VM cloud also running XCP, and a single Dell T110 running vmware esxi 5, running some odd and end VMs, and for building VMs to be migrated to remote colo DC's.

My network is fairly straight forward, and should be robust enough to handle this additional load. I have a Dell 6024 L3 switch acting as the brains of my network, this allows me to seperate the home network, and the work network. The rack where all of the storage equipment will sit is connected to the L3 switch via 2 1gbit fiber connections to a Dell 2724 .

The XS23's have 4 'blades' in them each with 2 1gbit NICs one of which is dedicated to VLAN access for the VM's, the other acts as a management/storage network. These ports are currently set to 9K jumbo frames.

Sorry to go into all of this detail, but I feel all this background information will give folks a better feel for what my data storage needs are. Also, I'm very comfortable using both Windows and Linux based operating systems, including messing with the command line, but I want a stable solution that largely does not require a lot of care and feeding.

So, that explains the network, and my current storage, let me explain the different types of data I have, I'm going to break this down into different 'datasets'.

dataset #1 - VM data stores, XCP can handle either NFS or iSCSI, VMware I believe is limited to NFS, this data needs to be much faster, it will have 8 systems with single 1gbit nic's banging away at it 24/7 plus a test cloud with 2 1gbit nics, and the vmware esxi box. Right now I'm getting about 400mbits out of the current system at peak, this is obviously way to slow. Today I move about 200-250 GB of data in a 24 hour period, I'd like to build for triple that in a 24 hour period with the new system. So say 750+ GB every 24 hours. I currently use thin provisioning, and since I have a number of windows and linux VMs, a lot of data is duplicate data... I figure I need 4TB of usable space if I stick with thin provisioning (before data de-duplication), or 8TB if I need to do thick provisioning for speed(again before de-duplication).

dataset #2 - This is VM backup images, 2 times a week we run a script, that exports the VMs as .xva files, these are large single file backups of the VMs, ranging in size from 4GB to 50 or 60 GB each, 2 per week, and we keep them around for 4 weeks. Today this represents about 3TB of data, obviously this data screams for de-duplication and would drastically save on needed disk space. Obviously as we grow the number of VM's this space will also grow, so figure 6-9 TB's of pre-de-duplicated backups. Speed isn't much of an issue here, as long as we can spool out the entire backups over a 24-36 hour period, without impacting the cloud's performance, we only read from this data once a month to make an offsite backup, and if we have to restore a VM for some reason. I know somebody is going to suggest using snapshotting, that just isn't an option because of administrative controls issues... I know how much slower running a program that exports data from a NAS and then copies that data back to the same (or another) NAS, but we need the .xva files instead of snapshots.

dataset #3 - PC Backups, once a day we move some PC backups to central storage, this is a lot of very small files, maybe 400-600GB of storage almost never accessed, and most done over slow VPN links. But probably doesn't lend itself to deduplication.

dataset #4 - Software and odds and ends storage, not sure data de-duplicaton would help much, but storage of linux/windows iso's, software, etc... Today *maybe* 250-300GB total.

Everything below here is for personal use :)

dataset #5 - This dataset is made up of avi, mp4, and mkv files, the range in size from 350 megs to 5 or 6 GB, no need for data de-duplication. write speed is largely not an issue, read speed needs to be in the 6-10 MB range, we have 4 rooms with media players so just enough to play 4 1080p's direct via CIFS shares. Today this is about 2.5TB of disk usage,

dataset #6 - This is a critical dataset, it's mostly pictures and home movies, today this is well under 100GB of storage, it will slowly grow over time, little need for data de-duplication, this dataset gets rsync'd to Amazon S3 once a week right now to automatically move the data offsite.

So, I was hoping to build 1 monster NAS/SAN for the entire storage, sometimes I worry about putting all my eggs in 1 basket. But, eher si what I'm thinking:

OpenIndiana with ZFS.

I have a couple of these SAS enclosures from a previous project: http://www.unixsurplus.com/product/...d-bay-sas-sata-ssd-san-array-35-nas-jbod-good

They're only 3 GB/s SAS/SATA, but I think this should be fast enough.

I don't have a front end for the enclosures thought, I'd like to stick to rack mounted, if at all possible. I was thinking maybe one of these two boxes:

http://www.unixsurplus.com/product/rackable-asus-kfsn4-dual-dual-core-2214-32gb-2u-server

or

http://www.unixsurplus.com/product/rackable-nm46x-dual-dual-core-2214-32gb-1x-250gb-2u-server

I have experience with sgi/rackable systems and they're pretty good for older tech system. Not too loud for my garage, and with 32 gb of ram should help with ZFS memory caching and de-duplication. I'm not sure how compatible they would be with OpenIndiana, and would be limited to just 2 onboard 1gbit nic's since the single PCI expansion slot would have to hold an HBA card. Not sure if this will present a major bottle neck or not.

If these won't work with OI, then I'd end up having to build a rackable case system to link to the enclosure above. I'm open to suggestions on cases, cpu, and motherboard specs, something that can hold a lot of inexpensive memory would be great.

For an HBA card I was thinking this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118101

But, I'm open to suggestions, I just need something that I can connect to the enclosures I have access to.

Anything else you can think of?

As for the pools:

pool1 - VM live storage, starting with a mirrored pair of 7200rpm 3TB drives, with a 60gb MLC SSD for l2arc. As I need more space I'll add pairs of 7200rpm 3TB drives. de-duplication turned on.

pool2 - VM backups plus pc backups, and software storage, RaidZ2 with 6 2tb 7200 RPM drives to start, adding 6 2tb drives as vdev's as there is a need for more space. de-duplication turned on.

pool3 - media storage and personal data (pictures/home movies), 10 5400rpm 2tb drives in RaidZ2, I'll still move the personal stuff to S3 every week for offsite safety. No de-duplication, just nice slow data storage.

pool4 - 4 7200rpm 1tb drives, stripped for temp space.

Ok, let me have it, what am I doing completely wrong? Where am I missing the boat?

Thanks for the feedback.
 
For an HBA card I was thinking this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118101

But, I'm open to suggestions, I just need something that I can connect to the enclosures I have access to.

Good cards, tho you can get them cheaper on eBay...

Either search for the LSI card SAS3442E-R or Search for "HP SC44Ge"... which is the same card and USUALLY cheaper.

Tho if you prefer MiniSAS SFF-8087 cables instead you can also go for the HP SC08Ge card. Which will give you 2 x external ports instead of only one external. Around the same price point also.

Hope it helps.
Actually, just looked

You can get 7 of those cards for not much more than 1 x NEW one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-x-HP-LSI-SAS3442E-HP-416155-001-SAS-SATA-Pci-E-Host-Controller-Lot-of-7-/320894872089?pt=US_Disk_Array_Components&hash=item4ab6d32a19

;)
.
 
Last edited:
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
For some awesome hardware ideas, go here... http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0

They are all using an amazing NAS mass storage technology called unRaid. This IS the one place to look, when your looking for an "all in one safe mass storage nas" for this type of request...

http://lime-technology.com/home/51-digital-media-storage-solutions

The current built can take up to 60 terabytes with 21 drives. Only ONE drive is needed to protect the array. I have been using this for over 3 years after I moved from a large raid 5 array. This system is not hardware dependent, so if you lose a controller, just replace it and resync. The options are endless and the customer support is amazing. Since i have built my array, i have switched mobos, sata, cards, ect. The OS doesnt care, it just cares about the data, which I have never lost. The ONLY way to lose any data is by losing 2 drives at the exact same time. The worst case is the lost data is limited to those drives only. Raid5 is not so lucky...

I have had 1 drive start to tick out on me and the array notified me before it died. All I did was replace it with a larger drive and synced the array... done...

You can start small and expand on it with ease. Put those extra drives in if you can, when your ready to upgrade it, pull the crap drive out and replace it with a larger one, turn on the system and sync it up... bling... more space.

Also... you will not find a faster NAS to pull from or write to. I use a really fast 10k drive as a cache drive which makes uploads go at full network speed. Pulling down will go at full network speed also.

it also support plugins...
http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Plugins

I can not say enough about how awesome this system is.

You can download a demo on a flash drive and see what its all about before spending 75 to 150 on a license.

Gooood luck!!! Tell us how it goes.
 
You're joking right? First, my proposed built is more than 21 drives day 1... Second performance would be a serious issue... Third, no iscsi support?

No de-duplication support...

Please more serious suggestions.. unraid is probably good for small setups(frankly I'd rather use freenas or openfiler instead they're better and don't cost $120 for a license), but I need more speed that it can handle, and the ability to grow.

For some awesome hardware ideas, go here... http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0

They are all using an amazing NAS mass storage technology called unRaid. This IS the one place to look, when your looking for an "all in one safe mass storage nas" for this type of request...

http://lime-technology.com/home/51-digital-media-storage-solutions

The current built can take up to 60 terabytes with 21 drives. Only ONE drive is needed to protect the array. I have been using this for over 3 years after I moved from a large raid 5 array. This system is not hardware dependent, so if you lose a controller, just replace it and resync. The options are endless and the customer support is amazing. Since i have built my array, i have switched mobos, sata, cards, ect. The OS doesnt care, it just cares about the data, which I have never lost. The ONLY way to lose any data is by losing 2 drives at the exact same time. The worst case is the lost data is limited to those drives only. Raid5 is not so lucky...

I have had 1 drive start to tick out on me and the array notified me before it died. All I did was replace it with a larger drive and synced the array... done...

You can start small and expand on it with ease. Put those extra drives in if you can, when your ready to upgrade it, pull the crap drive out and replace it with a larger one, turn on the system and sync it up... bling... more space.

Also... you will not find a faster NAS to pull from or write to. I use a really fast 10k drive as a cache drive which makes uploads go at full network speed. Pulling down will go at full network speed also.

it also support plugins...
http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Plugins

I can not say enough about how awesome this system is.

You can download a demo on a flash drive and see what its all about before spending 75 to 150 on a license.

Gooood luck!!! Tell us how it goes.
 
I thought sff-8087 was for internal wiring? And sff-8088 was used to connect to external enclosures like the one I have?

Good cards, tho you can get them cheaper on eBay...

Either search for the LSI card SAS3442E-R or Search for "HP SC44Ge"... which is the same card and USUALLY cheaper.

Tho if you prefer MiniSAS SFF-8087 cables instead you can also go for the HP SC08Ge card. Which will give you 2 x external ports instead of only one external. Around the same price point also.

Hope it helps.
Actually, just looked

You can get 7 of those cards for not much more than 1 x NEW one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-x-HP-LSI-SAS3442E-HP-416155-001-SAS-SATA-Pci-E-Host-Controller-Lot-of-7-/320894872089?pt=US_Disk_Array_Components&hash=item4ab6d32a19

;)
.
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
OpenIndiana with ZFS.
..
For an HBA card I was thinking this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118101

I would avoid SAS 1068 based cards. They are limited to 3 Gb/s and do not
support disks > 2TB

Use LSI 9211 with LSI 2008 chipset instead (+ external bracket when needed) or a 9200-8e or 16e (external Version)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118112

If you want to save money, the IBM 1015 HBA is quite similar after flashing to IT mode
You can buy them cheaply at Ebay
 
Last edited:
I would avoid SAS 1068 based cards. They are limited to 3 Gb/s and do not
support disks > 2TB

Use LSI 9211 with LSI 2008 chipset instead (+ external bracket when needed) or a 9200-8e or 16e (external Version)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118112

If you want to save money, the IBM 1015 HBA is quite similar after flashing to IT mode
You can buy them cheaply at Ebay

The systems I'm looking at above, only have a single slot to use, so a external bracket really isn't an option... and they don't have pice 2.0 slots... so would I really see any performance increase by using these types of cards? Also the external SAS enclosures I have are 3Gb/s as well.

Also, I thought I read that 1015 HBA support in OI is lacking?

So is there a 4i/4e 3Gb/s card that can support 3TB drives on OI?
 
Last edited:
The systems I'm looking at above, only have a single slot to use, so a external bracket really isn't an option... and they don't have pice 2.0 slots... so would I really see any performance increase by using these types of cards? Also the external SAS enclosures I have are 3Gb/s as well.

Also, I thought I read that 1015 HBA support in OI is lacking?

So is there a 4i/4e 3Gb/s card that can support 3TB drives on OI?

4e/4i HBA is LSI 9212
http://www.lsi.com/channel/products/storagecomponents/Pages/LSISAS9212-4i4e.aspx

There is a speed difference, not because of your slots but because of 3 Gb vs 6 Gb with newer disks where disks are faster than 3 Gb/s
Also think about disks > 2 TB where LSI 2008 is needed. 3 Gb disks are also supported with newer SAS2 adapters

The 1015 is supported out of the box after flashing to IT mode

For the Whitebox server systems (OI but also ESXi) I would strongly suggest SuperMicro mainboards (Intel server chipset based)
like the uATX X9 series for 1155 CPU's
 
Last edited:
The systems I'm looking at above, only have a single slot to use, so a external bracket really isn't an option... and they don't have pice 2.0 slots... so would I really see any performance increase by using these types of cards? Also the external SAS enclosures I have are 3Gb/s as well.

Also, I thought I read that 1015 HBA support in OI is lacking?

So is there a 4i/4e 3Gb/s card that can support 3TB drives on OI?

Yes 4i/4e supports > 2TB disks.

I have it in my OI box with Supermicro motherboard and chassis (SAS expander based), flash it to IT firmware and works like charm. I connect SSD cache to 6G internal SAS ports.

Unless you want to use SSD, no need to worry about 3G or 6G. My SAS expander is 3G and external link is 4*3G=1.2GB/s, plenty enough for what I use, 2*4Gb FC and a few Gb enthernet.
 
Back
Top