Help requested around a crappy Realtek

[Sawak]

Good evening..

I've registered because.. i surrender, i cant get my head over this problem thereby I ask for help, maybe someone can..

So my pc has the classical realtek with 7.1 audio integrated in the MoBo.

External audio stuff are:
Alcogi BF378 amplifier from the 1985 with 2x speakers (8ohm channel A) and a passive woofer (8ohm channel B); also on parallel with the speakers some extra twetter (but really who cares).
Technics A700mk3 amplifier, middle's 90, with 2x speakers (2ohm, dont question, will be changed sooner or later with 8ohms ones).
A random subwoofer-amplifier with not-so-much power but works ok for home theater I suppose, trademark is unknow, bought it for 20€..

So there we go, I try to configurate the system in 5.1 but either I get the later speakers to just squit around fragments of sounds (while frontal speakers does the work),

or i get the subwoofer not working that much (even with +10db from setup) and emitting a low trbrtrbrtrbr sound.

or the subwoofer sound is waaaay too low to be any useful even at max amplification.
So far I cant get out this problem, any suggestion to fix this in order to.. boh.. listen everything at proper sound? My aim is mostly for watching movies and playing some random video game (NFS, MK9, wow, etc, random games).
Sooner or later, maybe september/october will get my hand on some new 40-46 inches TV (kinda samsung) to eventually attach another audio exit (the pc-in for the TV as central speaker). Will depends by my work and pocket (and police and taxes and my personal war Vs italian govs).

Thanks!

More details?
Pc is a quad core q9300 4gb ram ddr 666mhz (ok oc 700), internal drives 500+200gb, external drives 200+1000+2000+2000gb,
Monitor 22" samsung syncmaster 223bw
Windows 7 64bit ultimate, a random microfone inserted in.
Lastest realtek drivers.

Ps. do you need the photos?

 

[Krispy Kritter]

First, how is everything connected? (ie: PC to Receivers)

Second, both of those amps are stereo (from the information that I can find). So the input will be stereo and the output will be stereo. Thus the PC configuration should be for stereo audio, not 5.1. For 5.1 audio you need to use the three analog 3.5mm audio ports (which those receivers do not have analog 5.1 inputs), or a digital optical or digital coaxial input (they also don't have digital inputs).

Subs typically connect to a sub output of the amp, not a standard speaker output.

To test the PC output, connect a set of PC speakers or headphones. Then you will know if the PC is working properly or not. Aside from that it sounds like an audio gear configuration issue.

 

[Sawak]

First, how is everything connected? (ie: PC to Receivers)

Second, both of those amps are stereo (from the information that I can find). So the input will be stereo and the output will be stereo. Thus the PC configuration should be for stereo audio, not 5.1. For 5.1 audio you need to use the three analog 3.5mm audio ports (which those receivers do not have analog 5.1 inputs), or a digital optical or digital coaxial input (they also don't have digital inputs).

Subs typically connect to a sub output of the amp, not a standard speaker output.

To test the PC output, connect a set of PC speakers or headphones. Then you will know if the PC is working properly or not. Aside from that it sounds like an audio gear configuration issue.

Ok It seems I did solve the problem, thereby I guess it's great if i post it, maybe someone in future will find it useful:

the problem aint the amplifiers being stereo or not, because you got consider them.. or better, to not consider them at all, they are just increasing the volume of the speakers connected to the PC.
The matter revolves around the crappy Realtek audio integrated 5/7.1 card.

What I thought was that any output was the same since I could setup them working in specified directions (like now, I can give the black output a "frontal speakers" direction and it will blow the audio like the green output with also "frontal speakers").
Instead, even if does work this way with the frontal speakers doesn't work for the other speakers aswell!!

Thereby there you go the solution:
Green out: Frontal Speakers
Black out: Rear Speakers
Gray out: Side speakers.
Orange out: Central and Sub Speakers

Also:
Pink out: Microphone in
Blue out: Line In

So it's 2+2+2+1+sub (7.1)
Every jack (even blu) can be set for "Frontal Speakers" (and Stereo mode) but only the dedicated ones can be set for Quadriphone or 5/7.1 modes.

If you setup the Rear speakers while using any other but the Black output, you will get the problem of mine. If you pinch them into Orange, you will get NOTHING at all. This even if the beep sounds while testing them in the RT audio panel.

So problem was solved, still the core remains the same, the audio comes from a crappy audio card, which setups the outputs as it prefers thereby you may have songs or movies or games that sounds great, or that sound terrible and you are enforced to turn everything to "Frontal speakers" (so a mere Stereo).

For example I've watched some Daria cartoons (beavis and butt-head spin off) where some sounded great with cars on the rear speakers, and different sounds well-spreaded.
Some other did total shit with a range of frequencies (rather than specified classes of effects) on some speakers. Also some had the rear speakers totally silenced.

I guess comes from the coding of the audio of movies and so on aswell. For example WoW sounds great, just tried TotC for a try and had even the enhanced "arena" effect without need to set it myself.

mp3s are random by the coding.. for example some Black or White (Jackson) sounds great.
Then you take the next song (dunno author, it's "Yes" the title and comes from 1980 and arounds) and rear speakers are silenced.
Then you take another song and it reproduces some stuff yep, some other not here and there


Hope this will be of any aid for the future for other people! Ofc I suggest to get a dedicated (decent) audio card.

Since I spoke alot about the audio I have, there you go

Amplifiers (in the cube) and the frontal speakers (yep the white one + side one). Also the dedicated subwoofer. Frontal speakers are attached to the Alcogi (below).


Rear speakers (no need to specify it's 1 of two stereo attached to the technics amp).

Ever had problems while setting up cables on your tower?
Consider I got 4 external HDs, 4 audio cables and tons of stuff connected..

 

[Sawak]

In the next future probably, I will complete the set this way:

TV screen instead of the current 22" monitor, while jacking in the Central/Sub outout to the TV (so generally Central is for dialogues thereby it's ok for the weak speakers of a TV). Sub will be connected in the outline of the TV, directly.

A third amplifier and another pair of speakers for the side speakers.
Already trading for the speakers, getting some old-style speakers (ok i stink of old all around I do know).

So will have 3 dedicated amplifiers for every pair of speakers, and central+sub out of the TV

 

[Krispy Kritter]

It's not totally a "crappy chipset" but a lack of understanding how it works.

To even use 5.1 or 7.1 audio, you need to be using a 5.1/7.1 source. If you are not using a surround source (ie: DVD movie or most games), then you will need an audio chipset or audio chipset software which will take a stereo input and produce a surround output. The most important part of using surround audio is that all of the outputs are NOT equal. The majority of audio is from the front center/left/right speakers. All other speakers are positional and only have a signal when audio is present in the "space" or position of the source. So it's not surprising that in your setup, you were getting "normal" audio from the front output, and little or none from the other outputs.

I will also point out that it sounds like you are trying to connect a stereo amp to each ouput. In which case you would need three (3) stereo receivers for 5.1 audio or four (4) stereo receivers for 7.1, not two (2).

Green = front left/right
Black = rear left/right
Orange = center/sub
Grey/Silver = side left/right

Combining the channels together in some way by cables or whatever may (or not) work to simply reproduce the audio, but you lose the positional affects. At which point, you are back to simply having stereo front and rear. In which case it would be more beneficial to simply configure the audio for stereo in the first place. You would then at least have all of the audio present on each output (ie: the channels and frequencies would not be filtered).

Quality can be the product of the source material, the audio chipset, chipset configuration, or the output device (ie: recevers and speakers).

 

[Sawak]

It's not totally a "crappy chipset" but a lack of understanding how it works.

To even use 5.1 or 7.1 audio, you need to be using a 5.1/7.1 source. If you are not using a surround source (ie: DVD movie or most games), then you will need an audio chipset or audio chipset software which will take a stereo input and produce a surround output. The most important part of using surround audio is that all of the outputs are NOT equal. The majority of audio is from the front center/left/right speakers. All other speakers are positional and only have a signal when audio is present in the "space" or position of the source. So it's not surprising that in your setup, you were getting "normal" audio from the front output, and little or none from the other outputs.

I will also point out that it sounds like you are trying to connect a stereo amp to each ouput. In which case you would need three (3) stereo receivers for 5.1 audio or four (4) stereo receivers for 7.1, not two (2).

Green = front left/right
Black = rear left/right
Orange = center/sub
Grey/Silver = side left/right

Combining the channels together in some way by cables or whatever may (or not) work to simply reproduce the audio, but you lose the positional affects. At which point, you are back to simply having stereo front and rear. In which case it would be more beneficial to simply configure the audio for stereo in the first place. You would then at least have all of the audio present on each output (ie: the channels and frequencies would not be filtered).

Quality can be the product of the source material, the audio chipset, chipset configuration, or the output device (ie: recevers and speakers).

Yep I noticed while experimenting..

For example on the "Star trek" movie i have in DVD, audio was great except the lack of power for the highs for the voices (i lack the central speaker after all).
Curious thing, Central and Subwoofer shares the same connector, thereby left channel goes to one and right channel to the other..

I guess I could be bridging them each other in next future.. mah.

Anyway I am not disappointed

The idea is to keep the current 2 amplifiers, +1 the active subwoofer (the bazooka on the ground), add a third amplifier (for middle speakers) and use the TV screen audio as amplifier for chaning central and subwoofer

 

[Comixbooks]

The New Realtek on my AMD board is great it beats my creative sound card...