Help picking out components for DIY Router build

A

AEracer7

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
119
First off, I think this is the correct forum for this, but if it is not, mods feel free to move. And Thanks for your help in advance, and sorry for the long read, I tried to organize it into something other than a wall of text.

I have established that my current router, is inadequate, and I have long wanted a UTM, so I have decided to make my own router.
Initially I was planning on using an old p4 pc, but when I went to play around with Sophos, the hard drive crapped out, meaning all I can reuse now is cpu and motherboard (maybe ram).
I do not want to dump any more money into that pc, especially since it was the bare minimum system requirements for Sophos.

As far as usage, I received a free upgrade to 20 or 25 mbps internet from my isp recently (can't remember which). Point being I don't need anything crazy for bandwidth, latency is more of a concern.

Priorities for this build are as follows, from most to least important:
Low power- main reason I'm ditching my P4 (it outpaced my gaming rig as far as idle power)aside from money. I would like to keep idle power of this at 30 watts or under. The lower the better, also I do plan on undervolting to achieve more efficiency
Low Cost- 100 is max budget, but I would prefer to keep it around $50 for core components (mb, cpu, ram)
Expandability- This entails the motherboard having multiple (at least two) pci-e or legacy pci ports for nic’s. And possibly a third for wifi cards. Also I would like bios features such as undervolting.

Parts I need help picking out:
I mostly need help choosing an energy efficient socket for a basis.
I was thinking of using 775, am2, fm1, or I would stick with 478 if someone can suggest a cpu which is efficient. VIA is not out of the question either, but I am not that familiar with their designs.
All suggestions will be entertained, including atom and similar amd designs.

Two NIC’s- I want something with good latency. If I use legacy pci, they will be 100mbps card, pci-e will be gigabit.
Wifi- If it's a card, it must be wireless N. Although, I don’t actually know if I can use an internal card as an AP with any of these os.
If I can not I would like suggestions for routers or AP’s which work well for this purpose.

Other parts I plan on using, but have an idea what I want:
PSU: something 80+, either a pico psu or CX430 or similar
RAM: at least 2gb, dependent on socket I choose
Hard drive: at least 30gb, I might use an ssd, cf card, usb stick.
Network switch: already own an 8 port gigabit.

Parts I will not need:
Case
Video card
Sound card
Disk drive
Any additional add-on card

I plan on using Sophos or Untangle as my OS, but it’s not 100% set yet.
I also plan on buying everything used, as it is mostly out of production, and I live in the US.

I do believe that I answered all the questions from the general build guide. If there is anything else you need to know, do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks again!
 
$100 budget is WAY too low if you plan on buying new parts. You can barely get a half decent consumer router for 100.

I suggest an i3 and a mini itx mobo with 4GB of RAM and dual Intel NICs. Get a PCIe nic if you can't find a 1156 board with dual intel NICs. Also you could go with a supermicro board with an Atom and dual inboard intel NICs.

A better budget for a low power, silent, and powerful router using new parts would be 250-350.


I highly recommend not using the router as an AP. you will be severely limited in features and range and compatibility with the router os. I suggest getting a unifi AP and hanging it off the switch. They cost roughly 80. You could even reuse a regular wireless router as an ap.
 
Agreed. OP, your price range is unrealistic even for used hardware. You need to dig a little deeper in your pocket.
 
For a hundred dollars just head over to Mirkotik and pick up a model that best fits your needs/budget. That budget is barely enough for a crappy consumer router much less building a decent router with longevity and features in mind.
 
Budget is unrealistic.

More info required.

Why kind of through put do you need?

What features do you plan to use? VPN (crypto is cpu intensive without crypto card) Load Balance? voip ?

What software do you plan to run? pfsense or something else?

You could look at http://store.netgate.com/ for a turnkey solution that is low power.
 
My planed build was very low end core 2 duo (20 ish) , cheap used 775 motherboard (30), 2gb ddr2 (not sure of the going rate of ddr2 now) , 2 nic (10 each) , and a decent power supply that I see for sale on Newegg every so often for about 20. Plus a low capacity hard drive.
I didn't think my budget was too bad. And 250 is way too much. Plus an i3 is overkill considering the family pc in the living room is only a later generation core 2 duo.

Instead of staying within my budget, can I get suggestions of setups that are pre core i series, and am3 or earlier that have the potential to be efficient.

As far as throughput. My Internet is only 25mbps (yet never reaches close to that on speedtest). I do a lot of in home file streaming and have a network tuner. My gigabit switch can manage most all of that unless I use wifi.

I plan to run Sophos, but really don't know what features I would want to use besides port forwarding, file sharing, and utm. However I do want the opportunity to use everything that is available with these distros in order to learn more about networking.

So basically, my needs right now are quite basic, but I anticipate them expanding.

Also what is crypto? I have wanted a vpn, but never purchased one because I wanted to run it on my router and router all my Internet traffic through it.

As far as wifi AP. I have a linksys wrt54gs I can use temporarily, but would like something with N instead of G capabilities.
 
You could just use that older core 2 duo rig as your router and build a new better rig as your desktop as an option. Just get a dual Intel NIC.

I would personally go with one of the recently released ivy bridge celerons for the CPU and find cheap used parts on here for the rest of the build. This could get you a build around $100-$150 depending on the parts used or reused parts you already have.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...CODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE



For the AP I would just buy a used gigabit router that can run dd-wrt or Ubiquiti Unifi since pfsense doesn't have support for wireless N yet. I'm sure some of the other free firewall builds do have support for it though.
 
Last edited:
rekd0514 said:
You could just use that older core 2 duo rig as your router and build a new better rig as your desktop as an option. Just at a dual Intel NIC.

I would personally go with one of the recently released ivy bridge celerons for the CPU and find cheap used parts on here for the rest of the build. This could get you a build around $100-$150 depending on the parts used or reused parts you already have.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...CODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE



For the AP I would just buy a used gigabit router that can run dd-wrt or Ubiquiti Unifi since pfsense doesn't have support for wireless N yet. I'm sure some of the other free firewall build do have support for it though.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what he said.

I use a g540. Dont get the low end g440 or ivybridge version. They are bottom of barrel celeron and do not support EIST, so no downclocking and use more power at idle then the g540.
 
open box asus or mikrotik is the best you can do for $100 unless you use some older pc hardware to which you will have to add wireless.
 
The cpu in the core 2 is an E6300. The pc was however not built by me and has an oem motherboard. The pc idles at 55 watts and peaks at 95 with full cpu load.
Does anyone think a new smaller motherboard (m atx or itx) can bring this down enough?

And as far as a new build for this pc it would probably be fm1 based, as minor gaming is done on that pc now by other members of the house. But I am good there.

So basically what is the lowest I can get this pc to on power consumption?
 
I have 64 bit Untangle on an Atom D525 with 4GB RAM and a 160GB 2.5" disk on a 60/3 VirginMedia connection.

Never breaks a sweat, usage never shows above "low". The D525 is Dual core 1.8Ghz. Pulls 19 watts from the wall...

 
AEracer7 said:
The cpu in the core 2 is an E6300. The pc was however not built by me and has an oem motherboard. The pc idles at 55 watts and peaks at 95 with full cpu load.
Does anyone think a new smaller motherboard (m atx or itx) can bring this down enough?

And as far as a new build for this pc it would probably be fm1 based, as minor gaming is done on that pc now by other members of the house. But I am good there.

So basically what is the lowest I can get this pc to on power consumption?
Click to expand...

Getting a micro or itx will definitely help power consumption. With the celeron I posted I would think idle numbers would be around the 20-25W range for the system, but a lot of that depends on the power efficiency of the PSU at those low loads. You could also lower the memory voltage to save maybe another watt. If you selected all the right components you could probably see under 20W idle.

EDIT: Here's a good thread I just found that will show you what to expect. http://forums.tweaktown.com/asrock/51734-asrock-h77-pro4-m-unreasonable-high-power-consumption.html
 
Last edited:
Bigbadai where did you find an atom board with 2 expansion slots? Or are your using on board plus only one nic?
Good read there, and gives me a good idea for target efficiency, but by default newer architectures are more efficient.
Also I'm not going to use an ivy bridge for a router while others use a c2d for a pc, and I'm also not going to retire the c2d yet.

So I'm either making a new living room pc or using even older parts for the router. I will work out price differences later after work.

But in order to determine efficency with this cpu, what does you advise? Looking up itx 775 motherboards which were especially efficient, or others results with undervolting this specific chip?
 
The Supermicro x7spa-h-d525 has 2x onboard Intel Gb nics, I also have a dual port Gb Intel expansion card, yet to be used.
 
Oh alright, what interface is that card, only dual nic cards I've ever seen are pci x.
 
Yes I agree that atom is underpowered for what it is, but used atoms intrigue me.
Anyone heard of an Ampro might board 800?
It's itx and has a ultra low voltage celeron. Seems like it could be efficient and cheap. But I can't find much on them. They seem to be 1-1.4ghz, so I don't know if it can still handle utm duties.
 
the celery would be about twice the speed of the atom as far as number crunching goes
 
Mmm celery. Haha.... But really even at a single core versus dual core?
These mb cpu combos are 40.
They are itx with dual 10/100 nics.
Think they can handle what I will use the for with a 25/5 (never above 1mbps up though) connection?
 
AEracer7 said:
Mmm celery. Haha.... But really even at a single core versus dual core?
These mb cpu combos are 40.
They are itx with dual 10/100 nics.
Think they can handle what I will use the for with a 25/5 (never above 1mbps up though) connection?
Click to expand...


When we're talking about low-end, low power solutions to a DIY firewall w/UTM capabilities the Atom will do just fine generally. But the Celeron is the more "high-end, low-end" CPU (mind blown) where the double performance can be noticeable when you have UTM features fully turned on and a network decked out.

VPN's, ACL's, and UTM will kick the shit out of even the top end gear sold on the markets. The performance hit can be anywhere between 5-10x less performance with everything turned on compared to an empty router config out of the box. CPU and memory are musts when it comes to offsetting those realities, which is one of the reasons why people were hesitant to help you build a router for so cheaply to do everything you want to the max potential possible. With a dual core Atom (older ones) you could struggle to get 25Mbps of bandwidth coming in with just VPN's enabled for instance. Don't know how well it'll take UTM which is almost as if not more CPU intensive.
 
I just picked up a Dell R200 on Ebay for $70 plus shipping = about $110 and threw in a dual port Intel NIC, works great and is quite. This replaced my old untangle box which was a Dell Dimension 4700.
 
Junior82 said:
I just picked up a Dell R200 on Ebay for $70 plus shipping = about $110 and threw in a dual port Intel NIC, works great and is quite. This replaced my old untangle box which was a Dell Dimension 4700.
Click to expand...

it's quite what?
 
Alright so I have done a bit of research lately and I decided I will probably make a vpn to connect to while I am away from home for both a secure connection on open wifi and access to shared folders on my home network. However that vpn won't see more than perhaps 3 simultaneous users (usually just one). A remote subscription based vpn is also a planned purchase but not any time soon. So I don't think that I will require a lot of processing power.
I have narrowed my choices down to just a handful.
1: Mightyboard 800 itx with a 478 1ghz celeron ultra low voltage. Has 2 integrated 10/100 nics. $40
2: Via Epia lt10000eag mini itx with a 1ghz c3 cpu. Also has dual integrated 10/100 nics. $50
3: AMD e-350 type board. More expensive and also requires an add on card.

First Choice is cheapest and more powerful than 2nd, but second choice is more power efficient. 3rd choice is most powerful but also more expensive.

If nothing else will my first two choices be powerful enough for router and utm purposes only?
 
Honestly the Ubiquiti Edgerouter lite is better/faster for the money.

Its linux based and can be modified as such.

Its just not all that user friendly at the moment, but the performance is there.
 
AEracer7 said:
Alright so I have done a bit of research lately and I decided I will probably make a vpn to connect to while I am away from home for both a secure connection on open wifi and access to shared folders on my home network. However that vpn won't see more than perhaps 3 simultaneous users (usually just one). A remote subscription based vpn is also a planned purchase but not any time soon. So I don't think that I will require a lot of processing power.
I have narrowed my choices down to just a handful.
1: Mightyboard 800 itx with a 478 1ghz celeron ultra low voltage. Has 2 integrated 10/100 nics. $40
2: Via Epia lt10000eag mini itx with a 1ghz c3 cpu. Also has dual integrated 10/100 nics. $50
3: AMD e-350 type board. More expensive and also requires an add on card.

First Choice is cheapest and more powerful than 2nd, but second choice is more power efficient. 3rd choice is most powerful but also more expensive.

If nothing else will my first two choices be powerful enough for router and utm purposes only?
Click to expand...


It's a pretty tough decision. The Via is an outdated chip not even really even competition to Intel's older Atom's (not upcoming ones) for about the same power envelope and price. If energy is what you're aiming for and you just want something that'll work and sit in the corner, but not be great. It's a good choice.

I'm not a big power efficiency individual so I'd probably go with the Celeron. The last one isn't that bad if you were willing to shell out a few bucks for performance, less heat, and energy efficiency, but for a few bucks more you can beat that AMD solution with an Atom or Dual Celeron (Celeron 847) set up that will make the best damn consumer router you've ever built for your home.

For a router and firewall, they'll work great. For a UTM you need to be specific on the key features you want turned on. One feature you could say, sure no problems, others can show you just how weak the hardware is. VPN's are also something to consider. I would not even bother with the Via option if having it as a VPN server was a thought. The other two or a decent Atom (D Series) would do great though.
 
For vpn the Via chip would be better than Atom or Bobcat due to the hardware encryption block it has.
 
shiznit said:
For vpn the Via chip would be better than Atom or Bobcat due to the hardware encryption block it has.
Click to expand...


True. Although it depends on the encryption type since it only really speeds up AES. The best benchmarks were 1.5Ghz model showing a max of ~55Mbps (VPN AES) and ~15Mbps (VPN 3DES). That model is 50% higher clocked than the build he's looking at and it's a single core part, whereas the Intel Atoms may have to try a little harder, but they are clocked higher than the 1.5Ghz parts and are dual core parts. Reports I've seen show show real life results of it maxing peoples connections (40Mbps+). Hard to find newer ones since we have faster connections now and people are moving to different non-Atom parts for DIY router builds.

Either way you can't go wrong with either 3, seriously, they will make any consumer $200 piece look childish.
 
Mackintire said:
Honestly the Ubiquiti Edgerouter lite is better/faster for the money.

Its linux based and can be modified as such.

Its just not all that user friendly at the moment, but the performance is there.
Click to expand...
Do you have numbers for vpn throughput? I'm a little concerned about 500 MHz MIPS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top