Help on new Rig!

S

Smoov

n00b
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
17
Hey, I'm new to these forums. [H]ard|Forum has been very helpful so far. I've been reading a lot on here the past week. I'm looking to buy a new PC for hardcore FPS gaming. I know the basics about building pc's but not to deep with knowledge about it. I'm in need for a new rig but want to make sure it will last me a little while before dumping money into upgrades. I was just needing some feedback on this new build, please.

CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115002
I had in mind from the beginning to spend around $500 on a CPU. From browsing CPU's on this forum, I've seen that the price drops for Intel is about to happen on 4/22/07. Will there be a CPU around this price that will be more bang for the buck after the price drops?

MOBO
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131073
Going with a SLI mobo for in the future. I'm sure I will have to spend a little bit of money for a GPU now. In the future, when prices drop more, I wouldnt mind trying out SLI.

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146690
I know that I will need 4GB of RAM when I end up getting Vista! I know that I cant use all of the 4GB without Vista, but will be buying Vista probably in the 4th quarter of 2007 or 1st quarter of next year.

GPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079
This is where I'm having trouble. I dont know if I should wait a month or two on what might come out. I have no clue. But I did realize from this forum is that a lot favor the 8800GTS. I've heard of the 8800 Ultra coming out but not sure when. I have a evga 6800 Ultra at the moment and really had no problems with it.

PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002

MONITOR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096

What about a sound card? Is a sound card a waste of money? I of course do the music & movie thing. Mainly play a lot of video games though. I'm transferring my Pioneer DVD drive & 2 Raptors RAID 0 to the new rig. Should be fine in that category. It would be much appreciated for feed back. Thanks for your time.

-smoov
 
Hey, welcome to the forums. There are lots of friendly knowledgeable people here, but you need to post new threads in the correct area. This one in particular is for issues with the forum software, and general workings. If you go back to the main page at http://www.hardforum.com, you'll see a sub forum called General Hardware. You'll want to repost your thread there, and an admin will close this one up for you since it's in the wrong spot.

Thanks
 
Well they were kind enough to move it to the right spot, so you don't need to repost.

One pointer for you though, it looks like Intel prices are coming up for a big drop in about a week. I would definitely hold off until they come down.
 
Yup! I saw that thread someone posted on this forum. I'm trying to hold off until the end of next month.
 
Hi there,

Here are my thoughts...

CPU: I would wait until the price cuts next week, as by then you should be able to get a quad core Q6600 for $530. That would be a much better chip for your money than an E6700, which itself isn't worth the several hundred $$ more than the currently $315 E6600.

Mobo: If you go quad core and want SLi, then definitely get the eVGA 680i A1 model--no questions asked. In mine and many people's opinion, it's the best motherboard money can buy, and unlike the ASUS models, the eVGA A1 has no trouble overclocking a quad core. Furthermore, eVGA is known to have better support these days than ASUS. For the warranty, just be sure to register your board within the first thirty days.

RAM: 4Gigs can be tricky due to the technical limits of 32-Bit XP and 32-Bit Vista. If you get 4Gigs of RAM, then you'll need to run 64-Bit XP or Vista in order to utilize it all. Otherwise, at maximum, (32-bit) XP and Vista will only see and utilize 3.2 Gigabytes of RAM. If you actually put two GTX cards in your machine, then you'll only be able to use 2.5 Gigabytes...leaving almost half of your RAM useless.

GPU: There is a lot of speculation about what the Ultra is, as the only thing known is it's $999 price point. That's a hell of a lot for a GPU, and if the card turns out to be what people think it is, then you actually won't be seeing any for use in custom built machines (nVidia would only build a very limited number and sell them to ultra-boutique builders such as VooDoo.) If you want the best, 2 8800 GTX cards are the way to go.

PSU: You'll want a top of the line unit to run a powerful SLI GTX rig. Visit nVidia.com for recommendations. My Silverstone Zeus 850 Watt has been perfect for me and problem free. The Enermax Galaxy 1000W unit is also a popular choice.

Monitor: If you want GTX SLI, then you'll want a 24 inch or larger monitor to take advantage of it. Otherwise, the second card sits twiddling its thumbs for most games. Look at the Dell or HP, as both are great models for their price.

Soundcard: An X-Fi is a great card if you running XP, much less so if your running Vista (due to the sorry state of Vista's drivers.) If you have some cash left over, then pick one up for about $130, especially if you have a surround sound speaker setup. Otherwise, your other components should take precedence.

Let us know if you have questions and best of luck with the build,

Mark.
 
Markyip1 said:
Hi there,

Here are my thoughts...

CPU: I would wait until the price cuts next week, as by then you should be able to get a quad core Q6600 for $530. That would be a much better chip for your money than an E6700, which itself isn't worth the several hundred $$ more than the currently $315 E6600.

Mobo: If you go quad core and want SLi, then definitely get the eVGA 680i A1 model--no questions asked. In mine and many people's opinion, it's the best motherboard money can buy, and unlike the ASUS models, the eVGA A1 has no trouble overclocking a quad core. Furthermore, eVGA is known to have better support these days than ASUS. For the warranty, just be sure to register your board within the first thirty days.

RAM: 4Gigs can be tricky due to the technical limits of 32-Bit XP and 32-Bit Vista. If you get 4Gigs of RAM, then you'll need to run 64-Bit XP or Vista in order to utilize it all. Otherwise, at maximum, (32-bit) XP and Vista will only see and utilize 3.2 Gigabytes of RAM. If you actually put two GTX cards in your machine, then you'll only be able to use 2.5 Gigabytes...leaving almost half of your RAM useless.

GPU: There is a lot of speculation about what the Ultra is, as the only thing known is it's $999 price point. That's a hell of a lot for a GPU, and if the card turns out to be what people think it is, then you actually won't be seeing any for use in custom built machines (nVidia would only build a very limited number and sell them to ultra-boutique builders such as VooDoo.) If you want the best, 2 8800 GTX cards are the way to go.

PSU: You'll want a top of the line unit to run a powerful SLI GTX rig. Visit nVidia.com for recommendations. My Silverstone Zeus 850 Watt has been perfect for me and problem free. The Enermax Galaxy 1000W unit is also a popular choice.

Monitor: If you want GTX SLI, then you'll want a 24 inch or larger monitor to take advantage of it. Otherwise, the second card sits twiddling its thumbs for most games. Look at the Dell or HP, as both are great models for their price.

Soundcard: An X-Fi is a great card if you running XP, much less so if your running Vista (due to the sorry state of Vista's drivers.) If you have some cash left over, then pick one up for about $130, especially if you have a surround sound speaker setup. Otherwise, your other components should take precedence.

Let us know if you have questions and best of luck with the build,

Mark.
Click to expand...

He said better than I could have. I don't think you need to wait for some 8800Ultra video card, the GTX is already enough card for most people, and 2 8800GTX's are only for those with HUGE monitors or people who enjoy overkill ;)

Go with what Mark said, he hit every nail on the head, and that would be one sweet computer (as long as you don't mind having the same computer most people on here have, haha)

All I would say is that if you want to save some money, after the price cuts the E6600 would be more than enough, and is supposed to be the price of the current E6400, around $222. But if you have the extra cash, then a quad core would be great, it'll last you quite a while... That's something I would say you'd be safe with calling "future proof"
 
CPU? Why do I need a Quad? I understand the price comparison your talking about. $500! With what I can actually use it for compared to price, maybe your right, E6600. Am I going to get the most out of the Quad with just gaming? But then again, you made me feel comfortable by saying "future proof". :)

RAM? I will be using the 64-Bit xp.

GPU? $999 is crazy! The only reason I was thinking of going SLI is down the road when I should upgrade to a better GPU, I could maybe slide by on getting a second GPU. But with getting a 22" monitor for now, I wouldnt even be able to utilize the second GPU from what you said. So maybe I wont do SLI since I really dont need a 24", plus it seems once you get above 22", monitors jump in price.

I'm really just wanting some eye candy but a fast performing rig. I'm not into the overclocking side of things. Shouldnt mess around with it since I know very little about it. Having the same rig as a lot of people on this forum is fine with me. Means when I have a problem, more people can help.

Thanks for the help though. I can use as much as possible.
 
Let's see, where to start...

You don't have to spend tons of money to get great performance! One of the main reasons people come to this forum is to learn about overclocking and how to get great performance out of budget parts. While spending hundreds less, you can build a system that out-performs the combination of parts that you have currently listed.

For instance, I see you have a $500 CPU listed. If you wait a week, the E6420 will be out for around $200. When overclocked, it should basically match the performance of that E6700 you listed, but cost $300 less. Look for budget quad-cores to drop to ~$300 in Q3 of this year, and upgrade then if you feel like you need more performance (overclock it too, of course).

Also, you list a $200 motherboard. However, there are perfectly good motherboards available for $100 less. Let me point you to this article - link.

In my humble opinion (IMHO), SLI is something that should really only be considered if you have a very high resolution monitor (think 30" Dell). For a 22" monitor with a max resolution of 1680 x 1050, or even a 24" monitor one 8800GTX will be quite sufficient. The trouble with SLI is that the latest single cards will give you great performance, and when you want to upgrade you won't want to put old hardware in - you will want to sell your old hardware and buy the newest card. This ends up being less expensive than investing in old tech down the road for SLI.

That 8800GTX is a good choice. You could get away with an 8800GTS with 640mb of RAM for $150 less, but if you have the money the GTX has the performance to justify the extra expense, and will also hold its resale value.

You choice for system memory... this is what you should get. This is just-as-good/better memory for $150 less than what you listed (assuming you order 2 sets of this). The key is that these use Micron D9GHM chips, all of which can overclock past 1000MHz, and some go past 1100MHz! You just have to catch them when they are in stock.

Your PSU - You don't want to get a cheap, crappy Powmax/Deer/Raidmax/etc. PSU that will destroy your $1000+ computer. However, there are some really good deals to be had in PSU's these days. I'd recommend this Antec 500w PSU to you - link. JonnyGuru is one of the most respected people in the PSU industry, and he gave this PSU a good review - link. It will be sufficient for your current needs. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say this might be the best bang for your buck on the market, and for $40 it's a steal. It also saves you $100.

edit: If you just absolutely have to be excessive, here's a great ThermalTake ToughPower 700W PSU for $120, no rebates - link. However, realize that the 500W Antec is actually more efficient, and therefore will save you money on your power bill.

So, right there I saved you over $650. You can take me out for a steak or something... :)
 
CPU: For most of today's games, a higher clocked dual core will beat a lower clocked quad core, but that won't be the case for long. This year, we're seeing game developers make the switch to multi threaded programming models, which means that more cores == more performance. Already, Supreme Commander utilizes four cores to great benefit, and some of the most anticipated games of the year, including Alan Wake and Crysis, will make use of four cores.

If you want to spend $500 on a chip that will go the furthest for your money (and for the longest time,) get a quad core. If you want to spend less, then wait for some of the faster dual cores to reduce in price (I'd look at the E6800 for example.) The E6600 is a great chip indeed, but we particularly like it because it has tremendous overclocking potential (see my sig as an example.) If you don't want to overclock, and want a dual core, you may want something faster than 2.4Ghz.

RAM: If you use XP-64 for gaming and are happy with it, then more power to you. I use XP-64 as my main development machine at work, and I've found it to be an odd duck (since it's really a hybrid of XP and Server 2003.) I have no experience with XP-64 and games, as I run Vista-64 at home. From a compatibility and ease of setup & use perspective, I've actually found Vista 64 to be the superior OS. Perhaps you might consider using Vista 64 immediately, or dual boot Vista 64 for daily use and XP-32 for games.

Good luck,

Mark.
 
heh, yah, what everyone above me said, lol.

The GXS700 ripples over spec, which kills components over time. Go with the Silverstone Olympia/Zeus 650W or 700W if you want a high quality PSU. Though, the Corsair 620W from ZZF suits your needs (yes, even if you SLI two GTX's, lol).
 
I know nothing about overclocking. So its probably safe to say I wont be doing it. So going with the Q6600 will be better in the long run for now?

I wont be doing SLI now that you have told me more in detail about how SLI works. In monitor size, 22" is big enough. I played on 23" Samsung for a bit & it was almost too big.
 
Overclocking is easy now, and these C2D chips have so much headroom that they're stable even if OC'd 1Ghz over their stock clock speed. We can help, just ask whatever questions you may have. I had some links to some guides, but cant find them right now. Maybe others can post some.
 
enginurd said:
Overclocking is easy now, and these C2D chips have so much headroom that they're stable even if OC'd 1Ghz over their stock clock speed. We can help, just ask whatever questions you may have. I had some links to some guides, but cant find them right now. Maybe others can post some.
Click to expand...

It is easier, actually just look at it this way:

The Core 2's are rated at a 1066 bus speed stock, which actually means you only need RAM rated at DDR2-533 to run the processor at stock speed. But the norm usually now is DDR2-800.

Here's what it means.... Take the E6600 for example. It has a 9x multiplier, which multiplies the RAM, speed of 266Mhz. 9*266=~2.4Ghz. Now, If you put DDR2-800 ram, which runs at 400 Mhz, 9*400=3600Mhz. 3.6Ghz! And you don't even have to overclock the ram. It's actually really easy.

You speed it up and run windows until it's unstable, up the vcore.. until you're at 3.6Ghz. w00t!

That's just an example..
 
Nice, that helped out a lot.

Since I'm not going with SLI now, what MOBO would you suggest? Would it still be the eVGA 680i A-1? On one of the two A-1's, I see the Memory Standard:1200. The other one has Memory Standard:800. I take it that means the RAM that you pick needs to be one of those 2 standards? Or does it mean the RAM can go up to 800 or 1200. Which would mean its "future proof"?:) At this point, you guys have steered me to get the 8800GTX, The monitor I posted & the Q6600. Just wondering still what to get to build around this.
 
Smoov said:
Nice, that helped out a lot.

Since I'm not going with SLI now, what MOBO would you suggest? Would it still be the eVGA 680i A-1? On one of the two A-1's, I see the Memory Standard:1200. The other one has Memory Standard:800. I take it that means the RAM that you pick needs to be one of those 2 standards? Or does it mean the RAM can go up to 800 or 1200. Which would mean its "future proof"?:) At this point, you guys have steered me to get the 8800GTX, The monitor I posted & the Q6600. Just wondering still what to get to build around this.
Click to expand...

Well, IMHO the Q6600 is not worth it at the moment - there just isn't that great of an advantage to having quad core. In the 3rd quarter of this year, the price will fall another $200, and then maybe stuff will be out to actually use the quad core's power. Then, all you'd have to do is buy the processor and put it in place of old one - it's the same socket and all.

RAM standards - when motherboard manufacturers put out specifications, they list the maximum rated speed officially supported. However, they will support RAM that is under this speed as well. Also, the boards that we recommend will all probably support overclocking, which is running things at speeds higher than "officially" supported.

Overclocking is really easy - use a program like Prime95 or Orthos to test for stability. You keep bumping things up at 100MHz or so at a time until you find the max stable speed for your system without getting errors in these programs. But, that's the subject for a different thread.

"Future proof" - I'm not sure there is such a thing, really. The term implies that industries will have standard interfaces and specifications for relatively long periods of time. However, there are so many parts of a computer, each with changing standards, that it is pretty rare to see a whole year pass without an important standard changing. Socket 478 -> Socket 775 (Intel CPUs), Socket 754 -> Socket 939 -> Socket AM2 (AMD CPUs), DDR1 -> DDR2 (memory), AGP -> PCI-E (graphics), IDE -> SATA -> SATA II (hard drives), ATX 1.0 -> ATX 2.0 (PSUs), 10/100 ethernet -> Gigabit (onboard LAN) etc. You catch my drift.

The current standards are what you need to focus on: DDR2, at least one 16x PCI-E slot, 1333 FSB support, IDE and SATA II, Gigabit ethernet, has a couple of PCI slots for legacy cards, and of course has a chipset that will support quad-core processors. There are many motherboards that have all of these. If you look here you can find what many [H] members are currently using. I also find it helpful to look places like here and here to find up-to-date information on what's the latest and greatest in motherboards. There are also tons of "which motherboard" threads in this forum - just have a peek around. It really boils down to cost, overclocking ability, features, and personal preference.
 
SEALTeamSix said:
The current standards are what you need to focus on: DDR2, at least one 16x PCI-E slot, 1333 FSB support, IDE and SATA II, Gigabit ethernet, has a couple of PCI slots for legacy cards, and of course has a chipset that will support quad-core processors.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of that, basically except for the IDE part, haha. I have to use some IDE cables in my computer because I still have to use a floppy drive for work :rolleyes:

I also got one DVD drive with an IDE cable cause I was afraid of incompatability with a SATA drive, but there wasn't one, and this is on a rather cheap mobo. I think any new mobo will support SATA DVD drives.

My opinion is: don't get IDE drives. Stick with SATA hard drives and DVD drives. The cables are like 1/10 the size, you can hide them so much easier, it looks a lot cleaner. And of course, apparently SATAII is ultra-fast, not that it makes a difference right now.

IMO
 
Citizen86 said:
I agree with most of that, basically except for the IDE part, haha. I have to use some IDE cables in my computer because I still have to use a floppy drive for work :rolleyes:

I also got one DVD drive with an IDE cable cause I was afraid of incompatability with a SATA drive, but there wasn't one, and this is on a rather cheap mobo. I think any new mobo will support SATA DVD drives.

My opinion is: don't get IDE drives. Stick with SATA hard drives and DVD drives. The cables are like 1/10 the size, you can hide them so much easier, it looks a lot cleaner. And of course, apparently SATAII is ultra-fast, not that it makes a difference right now.

IMO
Click to expand...

Agreed, but IDE is still the standard for optical drives and there are literally tons and tons of IDE hard drives, one of which he might come across in the form of an old computer with a working hard drive for some free storage / data backup. (happens to me all the time, every other week I find an old but working 5-20gb drive) Then again, if you need to, you could always use a PCI card to add this support...

Yeah, get this drive for your DVD/CD needs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106070
 
Yeah, I think it's safe to say that you will probably get flamed for NOT overclocking a Core2Duo chip.

Also, stay away from Superclocked stuff. Just a waste of money.

For CPU, I would probably get a E6650 when it becomes available or the Q6600.
 
belmicah said:
Yeah, I think it's safe to say that you will probably get flamed for NOT overclocking a Core2Duo chip.

Also, stay away from Superclocked stuff. Just a waste of money.

For CPU, I would probably get a E6650 when it becomes available or the Q6600.
Click to expand...

E6650 will have a 1333MHz FSB natively, which means it will be harder to overclock than current 1066MHz chips due to the FSB limits of current motherboards. E6650 is a step forward at stock speeds, but a step backward when it comes to overclocking.

Also, what FPS games benefit from quad-cores? I don't know of any... but I could be out of the loop.
 
SEALTeamSix said:
E6650 will have a 1333MHz FSB natively, which means it will be harder to overclock than current 1066MHz chips due to the FSB limits of current motherboards. E6650 is a step forward at stock speeds, but a step backward when it comes to overclocking.

Also, what FPS games benefit from quad-cores? I don't know of any... but I could be out of the loop.
Click to expand...

None now, I think SupCom is the only game that actually FULLY utilizes multiple cores right now. It's the future everyones thinking about...

E6600 would be an awesome proc. I'm just saying, if I had $500 to spend on a CPU, I'd wait and get the Q6600. 4 cores would just be so.... responsive! ;)

Just think of Alan Wake and Crysis...
 
Smoov said:
Nice, that helped out a lot.

Since I'm not going with SLI now, what MOBO would you suggest? Would it still be the eVGA 680i A-1? On one of the two A-1's, I see the Memory Standard:1200. The other one has Memory Standard:800. I take it that means the RAM that you pick needs to be one of those 2 standards? Or does it mean the RAM can go up to 800 or 1200. Which would mean its "future proof"?:) At this point, you guys have steered me to get the 8800GTX, The monitor I posted & the Q6600. Just wondering still what to get to build around this.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest the Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 or Asus P5B-E. Both are great boards whether you'll be OC'ing or not.

Newegg's "Memory standard" field just means that the board supports that speed. To get a full list of what the board supports, check out its manufacturer's page instead. Keep in mind, you won't need DDR2-1200 if you're running a CPU with a high multiplier, unless you want to lower that multiplier -- which would be somewhat of a waste, but not really. It all depends on what you want to run the CPU at. If you want a modest OC, then no need for expensive DDR2-1200 ram, just go for DDR2-667 ram instead. Most people go with DDR2-800 since its not much more expensive over DDR2-667.

I wouldn't get the Q6600 until it drops to $266 in the 2nd half of '07.
 
SEALTeamSix said:
Buy these now - they will not stay in stock: http://www.directron.com/fsx800d2ck2g.html

This RAM will OC to at least 1000 MHz.
Click to expand...

Agreed. DIMMs that utilizes the Micron D9 chips make for great RAM, and those Firesticks are selling at a great price too.

As for overclocking, it really is easier now with the right parts. I remember when overclocking meant switching some jumper on the motherboard to take a Pentium from 200 to 233Mhz. These days, you can go from 2.4Ghz to 3.6Ghz from the comfort of the BIOS screen. Still, there is a definite process you should follow to ensure your system is running at max-speed while remaining stable. The up shot is that they're some great guides available and some great advice to be found right here on these boards.

If you're still uncomfortable overclocking your rig, then you might as well get the Quad Core now, as that will serve you better in the long term than a non-overclocked Core 2 Duo. Another option, however, is to buy a budget Core 2 Duo now, (an E6300 or E6400, as the E4300 is a chip you really should overclock to get value from,) and wait until the Q6600 falls to $266 in the fall. That approach should save you some money in the end.

Also, if you're not going to do SLI, then you can easily go with a cheaper motherboard. One of the most popular models is the Gigabit DS3, which is based on Intel's 965 chipset.

Good luck,

Mark.
 
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