Help me decide on some components

[Razenko]

Hi,

For a while now I've been planning to buy a new system.
However, I'm still not entirely sure on some of the components.

I'm thinking about getting a I7 2600K system with an Asus P8P67 Deluxe.
The machine will mostly be a gaming rig, So I'll need a decent videocard.

However, I'm not sure on what I should get, many people seem to be recommending SLI or Crossfire setups, since two midrange cards seems to outperform a single high-end card for the same price.
But since I never ran with a dual-gpu setup, I'm hesitant to go that route, especially with problems such as micro-stuttering often being an issue on such setups.
I'm also not sure if I want to include ATI in that list of options, Since my current 4870 has given me much driver related and compatibilty issues.

Also, I'm also still having troubles deciding which SSD to get, I initially thought of getting a Vertex 3 when its released, but I'm hearing a lot of negative stuff in terms of reliability with OCZ's SSD and Sandforce based SSD's in general.
The other option would be an Intel 510, which doesn't perform quite as well as the Vertex 3, but reliability is far more important to me then maximum performance.

Finally, I'm looking for a decent cpu-cooler, my friend recommend's the Corsair H50/H70, but I'm not sure if I want wantercooling with the posibility of leaks and such, personally I think Noctua coolers seem like a nice solution as well.

Hopefully I can finally settle on which components to get, so any help or feedback on these questions is greatly appreciated

 

[Dangman]

It would help if you answered the stickied "ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FIRST!" so that we can help you better

 

[Razenko]

It would help if you answered the stickied "ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FIRST!" so that we can help you better

Ah, seems I've missed that, even though I only had some questions regarding specific components, and thought this was the appropriate section of the forum to post it.


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Mostly gaming, but I also mess around with other cpu-intensive tasks such as emulators.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Around 2000 euro's, thats with tax and shipping.

3) Where do you live?
The Netherlands

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

A whole new machine so:
Case, PSU, Cooling, Mainboard, CPU, RAM, HDD & SDD, VGA, Possibly a dedicated soundcard.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Will not be reusing any parts of my current system, since I will be using it for music production once my new rig arrives.

6) Will you be overclocking?
Well, Probably not right away, but I might OC the system later on.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
I currently have a 22" Dell 2209WA.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
As soon as possible.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.
Sata 6 GB/s, USB 3.0, RAID/Firewire & SLI/Crossfire.

I have pretty much decided I'm gonna get an Asus P8P67 Deluxe (B3), seems like a solid choice with plenty of options.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, I can get a legit copy of Windows 7 Professional from my school (64-bit).

Here's a full list of components I was planning to put into my machine:

1 ASUS P8P67 Deluxe (B3)
1 Corsair Obsidian 700D
1 Corsair HX850W
2 Corsair XMS3 8GB DDR3-1600 CL9 kit
1 EVGA GeForce GTX 580 SuperClocked 1536MB
1 Intel Core i7 2600K
1 Noctua NH-C14
1 OCZ Vertex 3 120GB
1 Optiarc AD-7260S Black
2 Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB (SATA3)

Anyway, I hope the additional info will give you a clearer picture of the machine I was planning to build .

 

[E4g1e]

There are a few nitpicks about that build:

1) Did you know that that particular Corsair kit needs all of 1.65V just to run at its advertised speed and timings? The Sandy Bridge CPUs have some issues when running memory at above 1.60V, IIRC. And if you use two kits, you would likely have to drop down to DDR3-1333 or DDR3-1066 speed in order to work properly.

2) That WD Black drive is a bit overkill as a storage drive. Unless you're going to be running performance-critical programs off of that drive, you can save about €50 or so by going with a slightly slower 2TB hard drive, such as the Hitachi 5K3000 or Samsung F4EG.

I'll let Danny and the others to find other niggling problems with this list.

 

[Razenko]

1) Did you know that that particular Corsair kit needs all of 1.65V just to run at its advertised speed and timings? The Sandy Bridge CPUs have some issues when running memory at above 1.60V, IIRC. And if you use two kits, you would likely have to drop down to DDR3-1333 or DDR3-1066 speed in order to work properly.

Alright, wasn't aware of that.
Lets say I want a 16 GB memory setup, which RAM setup would you suggest I get?

2) That WD Black drive is a bit overkill as a storage drive. Unless you're going to be running performance-critical programs off of that drive, you can save about €50 or so by going with a slightly slower 2TB hard drive, such as the Hitachi 5K3000 or Samsung F4EG.

Well, I intended to use the SSD purely as boot drive, and perhaps for one or two often played games, it does not have enough space for every installed game/program (For instance my steam folder is already bigger than the whole 120 GB SSD).

Thats why I choose the WD Black drives, since they offer better performance then most cheaper 'green' drives.
I also thought about putting two faster 1 TB HDD's in RAID 0 for my installed games and programs, and using a slower and cheaper 2 TB drive purely as storage (while still using a fast SSD as pure boot drive).
I'm just not sure if thats possible with the controller on board the P8P67, since you would need to put the controller in RAID mode (?) and I'm not sure whether the Vertex 3 would still work and boot.

 

[E4g1e]

Alright, wasn't aware of that.
Lets say I want a 16 GB memory setup, which RAM setup would you suggest I get?



Well, I intended to use the SSD purely as boot drive, and perhaps for one or two often played games, it does not have enough space for every installed game/program (For instance my steam folder is already bigger than the whole 120 GB SSD).

Thats why I choose the WD Black drives, since they offer better performance then most cheaper 'green' drives.
I also thought about putting two faster 1 TB HDD's in RAID 0 for my installed games and programs, and using a slower and cheaper 2 TB drive purely as storage (while still using a fast SSD as pure boot drive).
I'm just not sure if thats possible with the controller on board the P8P67, since you would need to put the controller in RAID mode (?) and I'm not sure whether the Vertex 3 would still work and boot.

The Vertex 3 would still work when the controller is in RAID because in newer controllers you can't have RAID without also having AHCI. And newer versions of the Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver support TRIM in non-RAIDed SSDs even if the host controller itself is set to RAID (in this case, any drive not in RAID would run in AHCI).

 

[Razenko]

The Vertex 3 would still work when the controller is in RAID because in newer controllers you can't have RAID without also having AHCI. And newer versions of the Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver support TRIM in non-RAIDed SSDs even if the host controller itself is set to RAID (in this case, any drive not in RAID would run in AHCI).

That's good to know, I really like the idea of having a faster RAID 0 setup for installed applications, but was worried I had to go mess around with external controllers and such to accomplish that.

I have to wait a while until the new Sata 6GB/s SSD such as the Vertex 3 become available anyway, so got some time on my hands to research a bit.

I'm still worried about reliability with Sandforce-based SSD's though, considering I've seen a lot of people having issues with failing Vertex 2 SSD's, makes me wonder if it is a smart move to get the Vertex 3, maybe getting an Intel 510 would be a safer option, but it's not quite as fast though.

As for RAM, would a 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance Kit work well with the Sandy Bridge? (Corsair's memory finder recommends this kit)
Seeing as its 1.5v it should work without any issues correct?
Or should I get something slower (<1600 mhz)?

Any advice, comments or other remarks about the setup I posted are highly appreciated, I want to be sure I got the best possible configuration before I spend that cash

 

[Dangman]

1 EVGA GeForce GTX 580 SuperClocked 1536MB

Unless you're planning on upgrading to a 1920x1200 monitor within a month from now, this video card is complete and utter overkill for 1680x1050. You'll be fine with the GTX 560 Ti (Still overkill a bit) or the HD 6870 1GB (Just right) or the HD 6950 1GB (Slight overkill). All in all, spending the extra cash for the GTX 580 with your low resolution is a poor idea.

1 Intel Core i7 2600K

Nothing you've described or said so far has shown that spending the extra cash for this CPU over the Core i5 2500K is worth it. From what you've said, you'll be just fine with the Core i5 2500K.

1 Noctua NH-C14

That HSF isn't that good for the money. Even if you are planning on overclocking, this HSF will do just fine:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156

I have to wait a while until the new Sata 6GB/s SSD such as the Vertex 3 become available anyway, so got some time on my hands to research a bit.

I'm still worried about reliability with Sandforce-based SSD's though, considering I've seen a lot of people having issues with failing Vertex 2 SSD's, makes me wonder if it is a smart move to get the Vertex 3, maybe getting an Intel 510 would be a safer option, but it's not quite as fast though.

Considering OCZ's past history and their level of customer support, I'd avoid OCZ for SSDs until it's been fully proven that the OCZ Vertex 3 SSDs are actually solid. They're definitely fast, no doubt about that, but OCZ's SSD's past issues of stability and continued/sustained performance over time makes them not that great of a choice. Yes, go for Intel or Crucial's C300 or C400 line of SSDs.

Alright, wasn't aware of that.
Lets say I want a 16 GB memory setup, which RAM setup would you suggest I get?
....

As for RAM, would a 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance Kit work well with the Sandy Bridge? (Corsair's memory finder recommends this kit)
Seeing as its 1.5v it should work without any issues correct?
Or should I get something slower (<1600 mhz)?

It should work just fine without issues. However you're not gonna notice a difference between DDR3 1600 and DDR3 1333 RAM. So if you want to save money and get the same performance, just go with the cheapest 1.5V 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM sticks you can find. You don't even need to buy them as a pack of 16GB. You can always buy 4 individual 4GB sticks of DDR3 1333 RAM of similar timings and you'll be fine. Here in the U.S, it's often cheaper to do it that way then get the actual 16GB RAM set. You still get the same performance but at a much lower cost.

 

[Razenko]

Unless you're planning on upgrading to a 1920x1200 monitor within a month from now, this video card is complete and utter overkill for 1680x1050. You'll be fine with the GTX 560 Ti (Still overkill a bit) or the HD 6870 1GB (Just right) or the HD 6950 1GB (Slight overkill). All in all, spending the extra cash for the GTX 580 with your low resolution is a poor idea.

Depends on which games you are playing, most current titles probably won't need such a powerful GPU, especially at lower resolutions.
There are a few exceptions though.

An example would be RIFT (a game I'm currently playing), even at 1680x1050 it can crush any single-gpu card.
The GTX570 for instance can only manage to run it at 34 FPS average with the settings turned all the way up (benchmark here).

When I'm building a system I want it to be future proof, and it to be able to run games released 1 or 2 years from now with all the bells and whistles turned on.
And I'm not exactly keen on having to upgrade my videocard every year either

Nothing you've described or said so far has shown that spending the extra cash for this CPU over the Core i5 2500K is worth it. From what you've said, you'll be just fine with the Core i5 2500K.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I know I've said my new machine would be used mostly for gaming, but I'll be using it for a variety of other tasks as well, such as running cpu-intensive emulators, perhaps encoding some big x264 files, I don't know.
I'm pretty much thinking the opposite way you are, the price difference between the 2500k and 2600k isn't big enough to justify going for the 2500k and regretting it later on.

That HSF isn't that good for the money. Even if you are planning on overclocking, this HSF will do just fine:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156

Yeah, the Noctua is a bit pricy, does have some rather positive reviews though, but probably a bit overkill for my use.

Heh, I'm not sure if I want a Cooler Master though .
When I built my current system (C2D 775) I ordered a Cooler Master Hyper TX along with it. Unfortunately the bloody thing almost caused me to kill my cpu and motherboard when I tried to install it .
Turned out one of the plastic feet had a manufacturing defect, ended up installing the Intel stock cooler instead (same mechanism), it went flawless .

But on a more serious note, I do think ease of use and built quality are rather important, rather not have that same fiasco over again.

Considering OCZ's past history and their level of customer support, I'd avoid OCZ for SSDs until it's been fully proven that the OCZ Vertex 3 SSDs are actually solid. They're definitely fast, no doubt about that, but OCZ's SSD's past issues of stability and continued/sustained performance over time makes them not that great of a choice. Yes, go for Intel or Crucial's C300 or C400 line of SSDs.

Yeah, I was afraid of that, I'd rather not end up with all the hassle of sending my SSD back, and worrying all the time that there's a good chance my SSD might die at any given moment.

It should work just fine without issues. However you're not gonna notice a difference between DDR3 1600 and DDR3 1333 RAM. So if you want to save money and get the same performance, just go with the cheapest 1.5V 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM sticks you can find. You don't even need to buy them as a pack of 16GB. You can always buy 4 individual 4GB sticks of DDR3 1333 RAM of similar timings and you'll be fine. Here in the U.S, it's often cheaper to do it that way then get the actual 16GB RAM set. You still get the same performance but at a much lower cost.

Well, over here kits actually seem to be a bit cheaper then single sticks, If the difference between speed doesn't really matter I might as well get the DDR3 1333 XMS3 1.5V sticks.
I don't really like those big heat spreaders on those Vengeance sticks anyway, worried they'll get in the way of the CPU cooler for instance.

 

[Dangman]

Depends on which games you are playing, most current titles probably won't need such a powerful GPU, especially at lower resolutions.
There are a few exceptions though.

An example would be RIFT (a game I'm currently playing), even at 1680x1050 it can crush any single-gpu card.
The GTX570 for instance can only manage to run it at 34 FPS average with the settings turned all the way up (benchmark here).

The problem with that link is that he does not describe whatsoever how he measured the FPS, how many run throughs he did, what areas or events he did, how long the run-through was, etc, etc. So in other words, those number cannot be trusted without knowing what the exact methodology was used. In addition, as shown with countless games in the past, not all games see a significant improvement in graphics at max over high or even medium settings. All increasing the settings to max do sometimes is just severely impact performance with little to no improvement in graphics.

When I'm building a system I want it to be future proof, and it to be able to run games released 1 or 2 years from now with all the bells and whistles turned on.
And I'm not exactly keen on having to upgrade my videocard every year either

Yeah you can't future proof any piece of hardware man. In any case, if you're unwilling to keep with up hardware and don't care about best bang for the buck value, then stick with the GTX 580 then.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I know I've said my new machine would be used mostly for gaming, but I'll be using it for a variety of other tasks as well, such as running cpu-intensive emulators, perhaps encoding some big x264 files, I don't know.
I'm pretty much thinking the opposite way you are, the price difference between the 2500k and 2600k isn't big enough to justify going for the 2500k and regretting it later on.

AFAIK, CPU-intensive emulators do not take advantage of HT. But I guess if you're really that unsure about your future usage, then yeah spend the extra cash.

Yeah, the Noctua is a bit pricy, does have some rather positive reviews though, but probably a bit overkill for my use.

Heh, I'm not sure if I want a Cooler Master though .
When I built my current system (C2D 775) I ordered a Cooler Master Hyper TX along with it. Unfortunately the bloody thing almost caused me to kill my cpu and motherboard when I tried to install it .
Turned out one of the plastic feet had a manufacturing defect, ended up installing the Intel stock cooler instead (same mechanism), it went flawless .

But on a more serious note, I do think ease of use and built quality are rather important, rather not have that same fiasco over again.

Yeah the Coolermaster HSF I recommended doesn't use the plastic feet installation. It uses a very similar mounting bracket to the Noctua.

Well, over here kits actually seem to be a bit cheaper then single sticks, If the difference between speed doesn't really matter I might as well get the DDR3 1333 XMS3 1.5V sticks.
I don't really like those big heat spreaders on those Vengeance sticks anyway, worried they'll get in the way of the CPU cooler for instance.

Yeah, the XMS3 1.5 sticks should be fine.