Help me build a balling Ivy Bridge watercooled system in a TJ11 :-)

Yes a 4x140mm radiator is the longest you will be able to fit internally in the bottom section.

As far as pump accessories, there are reasons to use them. They typically give better flow and higher pressure, but also important is allowing G1/4 threading. Just know that adding a new top on yourself typically voids the warranty.

With that said I am happy with my Swiftech MCP35X2. Expensive and while I definitely don't need dual pumps, I can keep them turned down pretty low without affecting temps and it's redundancy.
 
Now I kind of want the MCP35X2, thanks a lot!!

Seriously, I think the MCP35X2 might be the way to go. The official Swiftech heatsink just came out for it, and I believe there is an official res on the way too. Does anyone know ETA on that res? I thought about it, and instead of buying extra bling for my MCP655 pump, I can just buy the MCP35X2 and run it stock, and it will look decent/compact with the integrated Swiftech heatsink/res parts. Plus I can keep my warranty. I don't mind the price on the MCP35X2, it is not that much more considering I can run it at slower speeds, it has the digital control via the mobo, it should perform good as it is a dual pump, and it has the redundancy.

Question though, how do you know if one pump fails? Does an alarm or light go off? Kind of pointless if you have to have both pumps fail to know if its broke.
 
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If you have both pumps fail, you better go buy some lottery tickets.
 
Still, there has to be a way to know if half of that MCP35X2 fails. Perhaps a flow meter or something.

Learning away. Decided to use Silver Coil instead of PT Nuke.

Going to use bent copper pipes instead of tubing. Here is my inspiration:

SDC10513-1.jpg


Video of this awesome sauce case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8W7-TDY_eo

And the crazy good build log of this case: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=204450

Getting an early list of watercooling parts assembled. I will post them in a bit for review.
 
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Neo Zuko said:
Question though, how do you know if one pump fails? Does an alarm or light go off? Kind of pointless if you have to have both pumps fail to know if its broke.
Click to expand...

Since they report RPM to your motherboard you can tell as long as you monitor it with software. Depending on the software used, I'm sure you can set a custom alarm to go off if one falls below say 1300 RPM. I think 1300-1400 is what they report even set at 0% so under that should be a flag.
 
TheGardenTool said:
Since they report RPM to your motherboard you can tell as long as you monitor it with software. Depending on the software used, I'm sure you can set a custom alarm to go off if one falls below say 1300 RPM. I think 1300-1400 is what they report even set at 0% so under that should be a flag.
Click to expand...

sweet
 
Now I have to see which fittings will even allow me to use the copper pipes, I read a few post stating not all will fit.
 
This is starting to turn into a learning journal, but really, If I don't post it here I would forget all this info. And I am sure it will help anybody new to water cooling like me. Sometimes I need to reread this thread just to keep all this stuff straight.

I just called Swiftech, and they had some interesting things to say. The new res for the MCP35X2 will be a bay res, so the pump will go in the bay. I questioned had they considered the pump vibrations, and they claim to have isolated it and thought of that ahead of time, all while in the bay. Sounds like something they would do to have a marketing/performance advantage. I mean that in a good way. They also said of course the single MCP35X res will work. Also related, I asked about vibrations on the Apogee Drive II, and they said that is not true, and that it was a common claim, but their design is ok for that, that noone bothered to test it yet on youtube. He said that the MCP35X2 plus an Apogee Drive II might be overkill, but it would not hurt, but he would do the MCP35X2 plus an Apogee HD, or a single MCP35X plus an Apogee Drive II.

When questioned about the MCP655 vs the MCP35X2, he said that MCP655 was a very very old pump, that it is basically outdated, an even a single MCP35X would beat it, stating he has tests to back up everything he told me. I noted this before, they seem really really proud of there R&D and what their products bring to the table. The compression fitting white paper shows this as well, it states they looked into all the issues and created a better product. I kind of believe them, I have no reason not to yet. And they are very convincing. It's not like the products are not popular and what not, the rep is there. I've also read comments online praising the Swiftech CPU block mounting system, which is very important to me. I mean, what good is the best block on Earth if the mounting system is meh?

I also questioned if their fittings will work with copper pipes, and they said that no, it is for tubbing only, you need special fittings for copper pipes, and they pointed out that the cost would be high for copper pipes. Not so sure on that but that is what they said.

I also mentioned that I want to avoid plasticizing, and they said that Tygon is by far the way to go, lasting about 18 months, and they sell Tygon if you order the tubing from them in the 3/4" OD x 1/2" ID size, which I'm told is the the size that works with all their fittings, cpu blocks, and pumps. Strangely they have two other sizes, but he pointed out that those are not Tygon and not really useful. One was not really even sold. I think the website was not updated. Speaking of updates, the new MCP35X2 Bay Res will be up on the site in about a week or two.

Also, I was bummed that I could not use the Copper Pipes without some serious fitting searches, and while I still might, I might be swayed into Tygon tubbing, as I did kind of want to SEE the water perhaps and it will be easier, but the Tygon was only clear or black or silver or whatnot, no real cool translucent colors, and as you can see on Sidewinders page, there are quite a few different Tygon tubbings to chose from even with just those limited colors, leaving me confused as to which is "best".

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tubing.html

Swiftech could not tell me what kind of Tygon tubbing they picked, only that they picked a decent one with minimal plasticizing and tested it. I will call up sidewinders and a few other places to get a feel for which is the best Tygon tubbing to go for. Also while I was bummed you could not get a decent color like red or blue, I did come up with a great idea. Why not color the tubbing myself? There has to be a paint or a film I could use, and then the options would be even better. Hell, I could use something really unique, instead of say just the basic colors. Like carbon fiber film, or some sort of reflective or metalic properties. But you again would not be able to see the water. It would have to be something I could like melt on, but there are products of interest. The Carbon Fiber film here is an idea, and that can be formed around things both flat and curved:

http://www.mnpctech.com/CarbonFiber_Gunmetal_Titanium.html

I may still bend copper pipes for my watercooling, chrome the up silver, thinking it over, but I need to figure out the fittings, and I may need to do both options really, as even pipe builds have some small tubbing runs out of sight or between graphics cards.
 
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If I'm not mistaken, you could color a clear tubing by using RIT ( I might have the spelling wrong) dye. Theis dye comes in a zillion colors, it is dissolved in water. You can buy it all over. It's generally used for cloth.

A guy did this with the plastic cables on his power supply and the result was awesome.:D

You'd just buy some clear Tygon and some dye varieties and experiment until you found the right color. Done correctly, you'd still be able to see the liquid inside.

Also, in using solid metal piping.........it might be great for one set-up, but if you want to upgrade or swap out a component....especially a motherboard.....what a pain in the ass to have to rig up new solid piping.
 
Wait, so you're saying a company rep is proud of its products and says its most expensive parts are the best and you should buy them? No way!!
 
Cruiza said:
Wait, so you're saying a company rep is proud of its products and says its most expensive parts are the best and you should buy them? No way!!
Click to expand...

At least it does not feel like Monster Cable Snake Oil tactics, they seem to be pushing for solid testing and facts. Plus they do seem to have this Bang for the Buck value thing down. And nice touches like a good mounting system, function over form fittings. I'm not on my knees for them, but I do like what I see.
 
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featsdontfailme said:
If I'm not mistaken, you could color a clear tubing by using RIT ( I might have the spelling wrong) dye. Theis dye comes in a zillion colors, it is dissolved in water. You can buy it all over. It's generally used for cloth.

A guy did this with the plastic cables on his power supply and the result was awesome.:D

You'd just buy some clear Tygon and some dye varieties and experiment until you found the right color. Done correctly, you'd still be able to see the liquid inside.

Also, in using solid metal piping.........it might be great for one set-up, but if you want to upgrade or swap out a component....especially a motherboard.....what a pain in the ass to have to rig up new solid piping.
Click to expand...

Good point, I do like to upgrade once and a while.

This is the Tygon Tubbing Sidewinders said I should buy,he said it was Plasticizer free Tygon, and the best one so far, a newer type that is softer and more clear.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ty1id3odulso.html

And he said that Copper Pipes would be bad ass. LOL everyone likes em. Still, I think I have more options with the Tygon plus coloring the outside of the tube. I was thinking today that I could do parts of the tube one color, and fade into another, or have a design with lighted water showing in designed gaps. The art options are pretty endless. Still thinking it all over though.
 
I think copper piping for your first time out is a little...ambitious, to say the least. Plasticizing is not really a big deal. You'll probably change your loop out before it really becomes an issue. Also, I find tygon to be just a bit too soft and flexible for my tastes. I've used it in my last 2 rigs and both required anti-kink coils to make even the most moderate of bends. To be fair though, I did use 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD, which is a little thin walled.

If the mounting system for the current swiftech blocks is anything like the old apogee blocks from about 4 years ago - no thanks. I swear they made that hunk of crap out of pot-metal. The screws would strip through the mounting bracket on the second install without fail.

Oh, and my Swiftech MCP 655 has been running since 2007. It may be an older design, and a little on the bulky side, but the thing is a workhorse.
 
True, but no matter when I bend my first pipe, it will still be my first time pipe bending, its all done via tools anyway, and I could always bend another - be diligent in my leak tests. More worried if I decide to cut into the case for a mod say, as you don't get take backsies with that.
 
I have a MCP655 manufactured in 2005, which I bought second-hand in 2010. Still just chugging along.

Once again though, your money and your preferences. Watercooling is mostly about the looks and desire to tinker with different things, and creating your own unique thing.
 
Holy shit!! That Tygon is mucho expensive!!:eek:

I'll tell you though, I used a clear Tygon one time and the shit turned cloudy on me almost overnight..........and all I use is distilled water and silver. It was not what you have linked however.

Currently I use either Black Tygon or White Primochill.:D

Honestly I dont fret over plasticizer, I change my tubes about every 6 months anyway.:D
 
BTW, my loop will be a 3770K CPU (with an Apogee HD or a Raystorm Copper CPU block), dual AquaComputer full card waterblocked 680 Lightning GPUs, the Swiftech MCP35X2 pump with possibly the Swiftech MCP35X2 reservoir, possibly another AquaComputer AquaPort fill port reservoir up top (or I may just use this reservoir without the Swiftech one), a 4x140mm Black Ice SR-1 Rad, possibly another 2x140 Black Ice SR-1 Rad if it will help temps or noise any, cooled via bitspower 140-120mm adapter shrouds and 4-6 120mm GT AP-15 fans depending on if I get the second rad or not. The rads will all go on the bottom compartment of the TJ11 case.

Having trouble picking between the Apogee HD and the Raystorm All Copper edition.
 
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featsdontfailme said:
Holy shit!! That Tygon is mucho expensive!!:eek:

I'll tell you though, I used a clear Tygon one time and the shit turned cloudy on me almost overnight..........and all I use is distilled water and silver. It was not what you have linked however.

Currently I use either Black Tygon or White Primochill.:D

Honestly I dont fret over plasticizer, I change my tubes about every 6 months anyway.:D
Click to expand...

Cloudy water/tubing is pretty much always from plasticizer.
 
Just learned that in a copper pipe water build you should still use Tygon to and from the pump due to vibrations. Makes sense.
 
It has been suggested that I get a matching AquaComputer Kryos CPU Block (my GPU blocks are AC), anyone second this, over the Raystorm Copper or Swiftech Apogee HD? If so, which variation of the Kryos?

In addition, I will be giving AC some more love by acquiring the AquaComputer AquaPort Res, I plan on modding the TJ11 to mount the AquaPort on the top TJ11 panel - like in the Project White TJ07 case (pictured in my above post a few posts back) so I can just poor the water in. I can get the white version and shine a light threw it to give off a cool Iron Man effect. I don't think I need another reservoir on the MCP35X2, but I may just for looks perhaps.

Also, just talked to Silverstone USA, the TJ11 should be coming back in stock on Amazon within 2 weeks, which was by far the cheapest way to buy it in the USA, and the safest for returns should it be damaged upon arrival. I expect $575 delivered.
 
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You're better off getting the screws from a local hardware store like Home Depot, Osh, or Lowes. Whatever radiator you get will come with screws, so all you need to do is just match it up.

Each company tends to use their own threading. I know Black Ice uses M4 screws, which Sidewinder does not have. Also, each radiator comes with 4 sets of screws per fan space, so you have the option of using two screws per fan if you do push/pull. 2 screws per fan is more than enough to hold them in place if you attach them diagonally.

Edit: The hardware store might not have the lengths you need, so some washers would be a good idea, unless you want to cut the screw yourself. My hardware store had 25mm and 30mm screws. 25mm is too short for 25mm thick fans, while 30mm is long enough to puncture into the radiator. Screws that come with radiators are ~27mm long, so some washers would easily do the trick.
 
I guess I can just contact hardware labs for the diameter/length/threading of the screws I need or match them up like you said, I thought they did not come with any. Black screws would be nice.

I thought about doing push/pull, however I don't think I will based on my assumption that the gains are not quite worth it, that money would be better off going to a secondary rad in the system, I am using bitspower 140-120mm shrouds and may not have the room for it anyway.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bi12to14fana.html

I've used these before, they work great for using 120mm GT AP-15 fans in 140mm spaces and put some performance enhancing distence between the fan and the rad. Last time I used black, this time I plan on clear so I can have the option of a LED mod. I might still use black, not sure.
 
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This would be a good thing to look over. Shrouds do basically nothing for Gentle Typhoons, and can even hurt performance.

You can spray paint your screws black.
 
Well in that case I can get these flat 140-120mm Koolance Fan Bracket Adapters:

http://koolance.com/120mm-to-140mm-bracket-adapter

I could even use these adapters with rubber gasket style spacers for silence and to give it a smigden of breathing room - while maintaining a decent seal. However now adapter costs might be out weighing the gains. Makes you wonder how much more effient the 140mm rads would be over the 120mm rads with a bit of it basically covered up by the Koolance bracket. I could use 140mm fans but I already bought six new GT AP-15s. I've been using these fans in all my builds for a while, they have a great sound signature, are quiet yet powerfull with nice static pressure, and they undervolt well with a fan controller. Plus I've read nothing yet to suggest I would like any 140mm fan better, but there might be a few 140mm gems. I could stand to explore a bit more in 140mm fans.

Even if there are great 140mm fans out there, I'd have to sell off my GTs and buy them. I suppose I could just buy 120mm rads instead, save money. I could fit a 4x120 and a 2x120 in the bottom alone for sure, plus another 2x120 or 3x120 somewhere up top. A 120 at the exhaust is possible too but I'm not sure I want to partly block my only exhaust. And I would have room for push/pull on these rads without a thicker style adapter. Even though the Bitspower one is very low profile, it's just thick enough to preclude push/pull. But I could fit the Koolance adapters both ways even with a small rubber gasket shroud like this:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&cPath=59_457_335_986&products_id=29693
 
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If you're going to use a 140mm rad, why use 120mm fans? If you're going to use 120mm fans, why use a 140mm rad? Does the case you're using natively fit 140s?

Sorry, I haven't kept up with the entire thread, so I may have missed your reasoning.
 
I guess I can just contact hardware labs for the diameter/length/threading of the screws I need or match them up like you said, I thought they did not come with any. Black screws would be nice.
Click to expand...

HWLabs rads use M4 screws. www.McMaster.com has all the screws you could want. Choose the size based upon your fan's thickness +5-7mm or so.
 
Frozen CPU also has a decent selection of screws as well; most of the more popular threads - M3, M4 & 6-32. They tend to be pricey though.
 
baldrik said:
If you're going to use a 140mm rad, why use 120mm fans? If you're going to use 120mm fans, why use a 140mm rad? Does the case you're using natively fit 140s?

Sorry, I haven't kept up with the entire thread, so I may have missed your reasoning.
Click to expand...

Already bought six GT AP-15 fans, plus I think 120mm fans are generally better quality. So I want my cake and eat it too - bigger rad and nice GT fans. But I think I may just go with 120mm rads just to keep it simple.
 
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Did some loop planning today:

TJ11+Water+Cooling+Plan.jpg


As Doc Brown would say, Sorry... I didn't have time to build it to scale or paint it!!!!

This plan has three rads. One 2x120 Black Ice SR-1 up top, another 2x120 Black Ice SR-1 below besides the PSU, and a massive 4x120 Black Ice SR-1 besides both of those. All with push/pull GT AP-15 fans undervolted with fan control. I can run the fans extra slow as the system will have a total of 17x 120mm GT AP-15 fans plus 2x 180mm Silverstone AP-181 fans. Plenty of reserve cooling power if I want to crank the overclock up. 19 fans... That's a lot!! Perhaps I don't need push pull. Any thoughts on that?

I designed the loop for maximum aesthetics under the assumption that it really does not matter which part is connected to which rad first, as I read the temps balance out in the end and the difference is minimal. I just tried to put as many 120 rads in as possible while keeping the airflow unhindered for the mobo area, as I don't have heatsinks on the ram and I don't have watercooling for mobo or the ram. I also kept the reservoir higher than the pump and generally tried to keep the water flow/gravity going in a nice boxed circle.

I forgot to draw it in, but I will put a T-Line Drain down below and T-Line Fill at the AquaTube for easy filling/draining operations. The AquaTube is not in an ideal orientation for filling, however for now, I gave up on cutting a hole in the top of the case for the AquaTube. That's very a perminate, slightly dangerous mod, and it's not a flat surface. Plus for the effort involved (obtaining and using a hole saw, not ruining a $600 case) the visual/practical benefit is low.

I could go with bent nicked plated copper pipes for the main windowed lines except for the lines to and from the pump due to vibrations, or use platicizer free Tygon tubing. If i go Tygon only, I would use ample colored lights to color my clear tubing and water instead of cleanup heavy dyes and plasticizer laced colored tubing that needs changing far too often. I found clear outlet plugs from Bitspower that will hold a LED, I can lace the lines with outlet ports to give it some color. I'm ordering 12-feet of Tygon, I hope that's a good amount. Here is link to that Bitspower product:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bicrstfiiuvb.html

Every bay is used except for the two above the Blu-Ray Burner, where I will use vented bay covers so that the lower part of the nearby rad array can suck in some fresh air. This is also where the Swiftech MCP35X2 pump will be isolated and suspended via bungee cords, padding, or something like that. The pump should get plenty of cooling between the vented bay covers, the Swiftech heatsink, and that nearby GT fan. I'd rather have the Blu-Ray Burner up top, however I have a lot of bay equipment to juggle here.

Surprisingly, I can't fit a second hot swap cage like I wanted without cluttering the main mobo area with the pump/res. I actually ran out of room in the massive TJ11!! I'll just have to hot swap more often. While the rig will only take only four 3.5" HDs in the hot swap bay and three 2.5" SSDs on the Silverstone SSD mounts, the main compartment will have a clean look. And I could always wire up more SSDs just about anywhere really.
 
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Now that I've taken it all in, I think I do in fact have room to put the Blu-Ray Drive up top - then I can move everything else down a bay unaffected. I suppose that will depend on if I will be placing this tower on the floor or a desk.
 
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Okay just some thoughts for you to check into more.

When I was planning my TJ07 it didn't seem wide enough to run 2 radiators with push/pull on both in the bottom chamber. I'm not sure off the top of my head if the TJ11 is wider but just consider the measurements. Although I also think the SR1 is slimmer than the GTX I'm using so maybe it will work for you.

The 3rd radiator is probably not needed at all. I'd honestly save the money and just let the fan pull air over the drives, and into the case. The other 2 radiators are likely more than enough for your setup.

I know the mockup isn't perfect but do note that there are currently no single slot 680s. The Lightnings you plan on using are going to take 2 slots each just like if they have an air cooler on them.

Your best bet might be to get the case first, then take measurements, double check the measurements and then take them again.
 
Thanks for the info :)

My biggest issue now is that I need to pick out some fittings. This is a lot of work :(

When I get beyond the learning stage, I will start posting in a streamlined build log.
 
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The best part of that case is the GPU's have zero flex on the pci-e slots due to block weight. Hope you get your build done with no big problems.
 
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