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Help jumping into Virtualization

B

burninlemons

n00b
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
4
Alright, I been digging around and need some clarification on opinions. My goal is to setup a web server(s) and learn more about hosting (light - medium traffic).


As I understand it, I need a NAS or SAN for the VMs to live on (A NAS or SAN is not need but optimal). Then use a 2-3 Dell C1100 to run the VMs. The idea is to use them as redundancy boxes (if one dies the VMs migrate to the next box). I like this idea, but I don't know what kind of storage setup to use on C1100s (4 - 3.5 bays, No RAID)

I'm leaning towards Xen, but would love to use KVM. I just don't know the limitation of KVM vs Xen.

I'm up in the air right now, as far as what opinion(s) to go with... I'm open to any and all suggestions.


Thanks in advance



EDIT:

Links for others interested in learning:

Virtualization
Intro in to Virtualization - Youtube - Eli the Computer Guy <- Gives some good visual representation on virtualization with a little IT experience sprinkled in.
Introduction to Type 1 Hypervisor Virtualization - Bare Metal Virtual Servers - Youtube - Eli the Computer Guy
Introduction to Virtualization Infrastructure Design - Youtube - Eli the Computer Guy

Cluster
Server Clustering - Skullbox.net
High-availability cluster (aka - HA cluster) - wiki
 
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Is this a learning environment or production? It's not clear from your post. Sounds like a crapload of hardware for a lab setup, but you seem pretty inexperienced to be setting up a production environment.

If it's your first try with virtualization, you don't need nearly the lab environment you're looking at. Just get comfortable with the tech and the software first. Proxmox is a great way to get started with KVM, since it gives you a full WebGUI to use while you are learning the command-line management tools. You only need one machine to get started, but you can add shared storage and multiple hosts for clustering at any time. Once you have a platform down, then start exploring the additional hardware necessary to transition to production.
 
Thanks for the replies!

A Learning environment into production is the end goal. Now I do have a C1100 with 2 - 1TB 7.2k HDD, spares I just had laying around. What's the best option for a proper installation setup or optimal installation? I don't mind picking up parts/equipment, if needed or recommend.

With Proxmox, there is no hidden cost? (Besides, if you want support)
 
No costs with Proxmox, you can also step it up to a two node HA cluster but for that you would need some sort of fencing device.

I don't think it plays nicely with software raid so get a raid card if its within your budget, nothing needed for install really except download the iso and install it :)
 
DigitalDaz said:
I don't think it plays nicely with software raid so get a raid card if its within your budget, nothing needed for install really except download the iso and install it :)
Click to expand...

I was wondering about software RAID. That's why I ask about installation setup, good to know.
 
I wouldn't worry about it too much initially as Proxmox has a great back up utility built in that will allow you to reconfigure and import/export vms fairly easily.
 
It really depends what your end goal is, but for learning start with a single host and local storage. Get comfortable with that then expand out.

I would stick with one of the majors if your end goal is production...VMWare, Hyper-V, Xenserver, Xen, KVM. All have free versions to play with.

I started with a single host with Xenserver, played with it and broke it plenty of times learning. Since have run VMware (what we use at the office), and Hyper-V which I now use as my stable environment.
 
Grentz said:
It really depends what your end goal is, but for learning start with a single host and local storage. Get comfortable with that then expand out.

I would stick with one of the majors if your end goal is production...VMWare, Hyper-V, Xenserver, Xen, KVM. All have free versions to play with.

I started with a single host with Xenserver, played with it and broke it plenty of times learning. Since have run VMware (what we use at the office), and Hyper-V which I now use as my stable environment.
Click to expand...

I agree with all you are saying with respect to the single host / localstorage start.

Proxmox is KVM with a GUI that is very easy for the beginner to master.

All the others that you name are OK for single host / local storage maybe but as soon as you start to expand you need to start parting with your $$$ and in most of the case lots and lots of it.

With Proxmox you can go to a full two node HA cluster, including storage redundancy for just the price of commodity hardware. Not the easiest of set ups by any means but well within the reach of most IT savvy people on the learning curve.
 
Hyper-V and Xenserver both have free versions you can cluster.
 
Hypothetical situation:

Lets say, I have 2-6 C1100 (nodes, starting small) and I want to setup a cluster with a NAS (Hope, I got the terminology correct). Now my question is what kind of storage to use on the nodes themselves, does it need the best of the best, full SAS configuration (maybe even SSD) or can I get away with SATA? common practices? Using them as hosting/web servers.


Side questions:
How are external RAID boxes used? are the attached to the network directly (over ethernet) or through a server? useful if cluster situations? been finding them along my travels through the internet and just want to know more about them (common practices?).

Can you have a cluster of servers(nodes) attached a clustered NAS? common practices?

Is it worth going down the cluster road, for web servers/hosting? common practices?


Sorry, I have lots of time at work to research this stuff, but it's always in pieces. And I don't know the connecting information and/or have a lack experience too completely understand it.

If you have links send away, please! I don't mind reading/figuring things out. I'm not a IT professional by trade, but I understand/pick-up quickly how it all works (Graphic designer by trade).
 
If you are using shared storage (NAS/SAN/etc.), the local storage does not need to be much of anything. A lot of places actually use a simple internal USB memory stick to run ESXi for example.

An external SAN (Storage Area Network) can be connected to the hosts in many different ways. iSCSI, NFS, even SMB. They will usually be connected by a dedicated storage network which can range from regular gigabit ethernet to full fiber.

Clusters are helpful for redundancy and uptime. Host clusters will require shared storage so that the VMs can migrate between the hosts pointing to the same storage. This obviously leaves your storage as a point of failure so there are clustered storage options as well.

It comes down to redundancy and resiliency, all of which costs more money the more you go for.
 
For a web server I would think SAS drives would be better and using a raid 10 array so that access times don't drop off. For redundancy, or high availability, I would say have 2 separate nodes, or clusters, one as main and one as fail over. And if I believe correctly, external raid boxes are the same as DAS where they get directly connected to a host.
 
Just jumping in? Starting playing around with VirtualBox. You can host some Linux machines on your desktop as virtual guests.
 
If you are familiar with linux or want to be, KVM with CentOS is probably the best bet. The plus is that it would be a fully functioning OS that you could use for other things if you install the desktop, it's essentially regular linux with virtualization packages. If you have a copy of Windows Server Standard or equivalent, you can do the same with Windows Server, but it doesn't virtualize all linux clients very well.You could move to Proxmox later after you understand setting up your KVM hosts.

Citrix XEN is probably the easiest of the rest to use with only one system although ESX is close. ESX would be the most compatible. The downside is that to visualize anything, you have to connect from another system.
Virtual box is great to run on a desktop, but I find Vmware Workstation to be as well. You can virtualize with Microsoft desktop hyper-v, but it's not very easy to use in comparison and doesn't host linux vms as well as Virtual Box or Vmware Workstation.

I find the licensing for VMWare for free versions more complicated than it needs to be or I'd rate it higher.
 
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