Help designing new SFF mATX Based Build

[1Wolf]

Hello,

Was hoping to recruit some help, opinions, and advice on a new mATX based build. I've spent the past few days determining my budget and setting some requirements and I think I'm close enough now to put this post up and ask for a little help.

I've pasted the stickied "Build Advice" Q&A below. As mentioned in that post, I'll include as many details as I can, so please forgive the wall of text.

With regards to case selection, there is a running discussion here that covers my space and case requirements. I had previously asked for some help in case selection and received some great responses.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1768606

With regards to component selection I'd like to stick with an intel CPU/ASUS mobo combination. I've had great luck with those combinations in my last builds and would like to stick with it.

1. What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming, Photoshop (or other intensive programs), Web browsing, strictly HTPC/Playback, etc. (If you have multiple things you want to do with the system, make sure you rank them from most important to least important).

There will be multiple family members using this PC. For my own use...mostly gaming. For my wife....the things she'll be using this PC runs the gamut from gaming, to Photoshop, to movie editing, to 3D animation. Her uses are always extremely CPU and memory intensive.

2. Will you be overclocking? (If so, are you looking to watercool?)

Yes. Most likely a small to moderate overclock. I'm not looking to set any records or anything though. For the CPU/Motherboard/Cooling combination if there is an "easy" overclock that is commonly used...I'll most likely just go with that and tweak/test to be stable on my system.

I will definitely be using an All-In-One watercooling solution. Most likely a Corsiar H Series 120mm or 140mm kit like the H90 or H90 depending on case selection.

3. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?

Budget is roughly $1200-$1500 give or take. That budget is just for parts, tax and shipping not included. Cost is not a driving factor in component selection. Lower is better, but I'm much more concerned with ease of assembly & reliability.

4. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?

Near Naperville, IL. There are Fry's, Microcenter, & TigerDirect within reasonable drive near me. Often I simply order from NewEgg or Amazon.

5. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need (especially if you will need 3.5" hard drives or expansion cards as these may restrict case options).

Intel CPU - I'd like to go with Intel. I need an unlocked CPU and I will be needing Hyperthreading. I'm not sure whether I should go with Haswell or Ivy Bridge. The price difference between them isn't, in my opinion, huge so I'm leaning towards Haswell.

CPU Cooler - All in One Water Cooling. Something along the lines of a 120mm-140mm Corsair H Series.

ASUS Mobo - Z87 or Z77 (depending on CPU choice above) mATX Mobo (I need the 4 slots of RAM if I'm going 32 Gigs).

Case - So far, based on the discussion folks have been contributing to in the thread linked above, I'm learning towards a Silverstone Sugo SG10, or TJ08-E. To summarize the requirements from that thread. I'm looking for something that would fit in an area around 14-15 inches tall, by 16-18 inches deep, by 12-13 inches wide. It needs to have at least one 120mm to 140mm exhaust to mount the All In One Watercooling, and at least one other good intake to bring in some air.

Video Card - I'd like to stick with nVidia GeForce series here. Single Card solution only. As for which model, I'm open to suggestions. My wife will probably be using this machine more than me, and the games and uses that she puts it through are usually not quite so cutting edge and are much more CPU & Memory dependent than GPU dependent. Also, for my own uses, this won't be my "main" machine. My main full-size machine uses a GTX690 which has been more than sufficient for all of my uses.

PSU - Modular PSU only. I don't like to "skimp" or mess around with "budget" PSU's. For my own experience, that only results in hard-to-identify quirks and problems. I'm willing to pay the money for solid, reliable, bulletproof PSU's. My last builds I've had excellent luck and am a happy customer of some Seasonic and Corsair PSU's.

RAM - 32 Gigs. In the past I've had good luck with G-Skill and Corsair, and pretty bad luck with Mushkin.

SSD - Something fairly inexpensive and very reliable. It doesn't need to break any speed records.

Optical - Depending on the case selected, I may need a slim line or non slim line DVD reader.

6. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.

Nothing reused.

7. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Thunderbolt? Crossfire or SLI support? How many USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.

No particular "needs" here that I can think of. I won't be using RAID, or SLI, or Thunderbolt. Certainly will need some USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s.

8. What resolution output do you need? 4k playback, 1080p playback, etc for HTPC or give a vertical/horizontal resolution for gaming SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?

Output to 1920x1080 120Hz 3D LCD. Multiple Monitor output would be handy but not mandatory. Whatever comes on the card is probably more than sufficient.

9. Does this system need to fit into a particular space and do you need an optical drive? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc. Many modern SFF cases have either removed the optical drive or have been constructed so that removing the ODD increases the configuration possibilities immensely.

14-15 inches tall, by 16-18 inches deep, by 12-13 inches wide. I can probably go an inch taller if I have to, I'm just trying to keep it shorter if at all possible. If dumping the optical drive will increase my configuration possibilities immensely...then I can ditch it. Otherwise, I'd like to have one.

10. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?

Not very...I'd like to stay away from modding if I can. I'd like this system to be simple.

11. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care

Quiet is always nice, but its at the bottom of my priority list. It doesn't really make a difference to me.

12. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?

This system will very often be moved from a downstairs "den" to an upstairs "office" and back and forth. Once in a blue moon it may get carted out of the house. Something more mobile and lighter than a mid-tower, but it doesn't need to be an X-Box or anything.

13. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards

No. I'd really like to go with and OEM Windows 7 64-Bit but I had no idea that there was some sort of issue with new motherboards I love my Windows 7 so I'm not sure how to respond to that question. I really would rather avoid Windows 8. I'm sure some love it, but for myself, I'm not a fan. If thats my only choice though...I guess I'll swallow the bitter pill.

14. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?

Within the next 2-3 Weeks.

 

[tiraides]

$280 - Intel Core i7-4770K
$140 - Asus Gryphon Z87 TUF Series (MC in-store bundle special)
$60 - Corsair H60 CPU water-cooler
$238 - Two sets Corsair Vengeance CMZ16GX3M2A1600C9 2x8GB DDR3 1600 (on sale at $119 each, using 15% discount promo code EMCXPVR27, expires 7/1)
$260 - Gigabyte GV-N760OC-2GD GTX 760 2GB
$15 - Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE OEM SATA DVD burner (using $3 discount promo code EMCXPVW92, expires 6/27)
$170 - Samsung 840 250GB SSD
$120 - Seasonic X650 Gold 650W full modular PSU
$63 - Lian Li PC-A04B (using 30% discount promo code LIANLI30, expires 6/30)
$130 - Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OEM DVD
=====
$1476 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

Basically, you grab the motherboard and processor at Micro Center (they are in-store prices, not online), the SSD and OS from Amazon, and everything else from NewEgg. You can also grab a cheap DVD burner (under $20) from Micro Center if you miss the NewEgg deal or are a bit impatient.

I went with Windows 7 Professional as Windows 7 Home Premium is limited to 16GB of total system memory. Windows 8 (non-Pro) doesn't have that limitation.

If you want to cut some cost corners, one way to do so is to switch motherboards. The Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H is considerably cheaper than the Asus Gryphon yet has most of the same features.

Another corner you could cut is on the CPU cooler. If you're only performing a modest overclock, what can the Corsair H60 do that the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO can't?

The GTX 760 just recently came out and it outperforms the GTX 660 Ti (based on initial reviews). If you want to cut corners on the video card, you could "downgrade" to the "plain" GTX 660 or the GTX 650 Ti Boost.

I didn't include a hard drive in this build as I was already coming close to your budget limit. Do you need one (or several)?

I chose the Lian Li PC-A04B due to its promo code. You can mount the Corsair H60 onto the top 120mm fan (the rear fan is, I believe, 92mm). Other cases to consider are the Arc Mini and the Define Mini, both from Fractal Design. Of course, the Silverstone TJ08B-E (if you prefer to stick with that) is as good as advertised.

EDIT: NewEgg has a 48-hour special on an OEM copy of Windows 7 Professional. Use promo code EMCYTZT3685 to get it for $120.

 

[1Wolf]

Great! Thank you Tiraides

I'm thinking I'll probably want to bump the H60 cooler to an H80i. I believe the H80i adds a second over-under push-pull Fan with the radiator so I'll either need to make sure the whole thing will fit in the case, or I can probably mount it so that the second fan is outside of the case.

If you want to cut some cost corners, one way to do so is to switch motherboards. The Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H is considerably cheaper than the Asus Gryphon yet has most of the same features.

I've never used a Gigabyte board before. How does it compare to the ASUS when it comes to a "novice" level builder? I tend to prefer boards that allow me the simplest and easiest overclocks and minimize the chance of me doing something "bad". I'm definitely a "novice" level builder and have only a couple overclocks under my belt. I chose the ASUS because I'd had good luck with it and the featureset helped me to get pretty decent overclocks fairly easily. If the Gigabyte is comparable in that regard, as well as reliability and support...I'd certainly consider it.

The GTX 760 just recently came out and it outperforms the GTX 660 Ti (based on initial reviews). If you want to cut corners on the video card, you could "downgrade" to the "plain" GTX 660 or the GTX 650 Ti Boost.

Yes, I can probably cut the corners a bit on the video card. CPU and memory I can't skimp on...but I probably don't need to go cutting edge on the video card.

I didn't include a hard drive in this build as I was already coming close to your budget limit. Do you need one (or several)?

For now, I can probably skip on the HDD completely. The SSD should give me all the storage I need. In the future, down the road, if there is room in the case maybe I'll add a big platter drive and let this new SFF serve double duty to store backups for other machines.

Aside from deals available through Newegg or Microcenter...money aside...what is your favorite SFF case that might meet my footprint and cooling requirements?

 

[tiraides]

I've never used a Gigabyte board before. How does it compare to the ASUS when it comes to a "novice" level builder? I tend to prefer boards that allow me the simplest and easiest overclocks and minimize the chance of me doing something "bad". I'm definitely a "novice" level builder and have only a couple overclocks under my belt. I chose the ASUS because I'd had good luck with it and the featureset helped me to get pretty decent overclocks fairly easily. If the Gigabyte is comparable in that regard, as well as reliability and support...I'd certainly consider it.

I can't vouch for the overclocking capabilities of the Gigabyte board since I'm not much of an overclocker myself. Depending on the BIOS/UEFI design, and sometimes even among the different board models, a Gigabyte board may or may not overclock as well or as easily as an Asus board.

However, the Asus Gryphon seems designed for overclocking whereas the Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H looks like every other mid-range or upper-entry-level board. If overclocking is a priority for you, the Asus Gryphon appears to be the better choice.

Reliability and support is about the same for both manufacturers. Of course, each manufacturer has its share of fans and detractors.

For now, I can probably skip on the HDD completely. The SSD should give me all the storage I need. In the future, down the road, if there is room in the case maybe I'll add a big platter drive and let this new SFF serve double duty to store backups for other machines.

If this system is to be your wife's primary machine, you may want to plan your storage "needs" for the long term with her in mind. If you have the spare cash and find the opportunity to do so, you should buy a second (ideally identical) SSD so she could either use it as a swap disk or store some of her other frequently-used programs and games onto it. You should also look at a 3TB or 4TB HDD for a storage drive. (Periodic sales can drop the prices down to around three or four cents per gigabyte.)

Aside from deals available through Newegg or Microcenter...money aside...what is your favorite SFF case that might meet my footprint and cooling requirements?

I've used the TJ08-E and its predecessor in the past. I eventually decided that I wanted a smaller system, so I followed up with the SG08. But I'm not just a Silverstone fanboy as I'm currently using the Lian Li PC-Q25B for my file server.

Honestly, I like all of the cases I mentioned earlier. The features of each case are pretty similar to each other. Then again, TJ08-E has two noticeable differences: an upside-down motherboard mounting setup and a 180mm front intake fan instead of two 120mm fans.

You may have to go with your gut on this choice.

 

[1Wolf]

Thank you Tiraides again for the help, advice, and links to the discounts. Looks like my list is mostly complete

I can't vouch for the overclocking capabilities of the Gigabyte board since I'm not much of an overclocker myself. Depending on the BIOS/UEFI design, and sometimes even among the different board models, a Gigabyte board may or may not overclock as well or as easily as an Asus board.

However, the Asus Gryphon seems designed for overclocking whereas the Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H looks like every other mid-range or upper-entry-level board. If overclocking is a priority for you, the Asus Gryphon appears to be the better choice.

Reliability and support is about the same for both manufacturers. Of course, each manufacturer has its share of fans and detractors.

Thanks for the insight. I've decided to stick with the ASUS Gryphon.

If this system is to be your wife's primary machine, you may want to plan your storage "needs" for the long term with her in mind. If you have the spare cash and find the opportunity to do so, you should buy a second (ideally identical) SSD so she could either use it as a swap disk or store some of her other frequently-used programs and games onto it. You should also look at a 3TB or 4TB HDD for a storage drive. (Periodic sales can drop the prices down to around three or four cents per gigabyte.)

Actually this will be my wife's "secondary" machine as well. Her primary has a ton of storage. In the future though, if I stumble on a good deal, I might actually add that 3TB or 4TB Platter drive you mentioned to the new SFF machine and use it as an additional destination for backups for other machines.

I've used the TJ08-E and its predecessor in the past. I eventually decided that I wanted a smaller system, so I followed up with the SG08. But I'm not just a Silverstone fanboy as I'm currently using the Lian Li PC-Q25B for my file server.

Honestly, I like all of the cases I mentioned earlier. The features of each case are pretty similar to each other. Then again, TJ08-E has two noticeable differences: an upside-down motherboard mounting setup and a 180mm front intake fan instead of two 120mm fans.

You may have to go with your gut on this choice.

After doing quite a bit of reading and googling last night, I think I've decided to go with the TJ08B-E. It seems alot of reviewers of the SG10 have had issues with certain PSU's in the case, and that the case is a bit tricky to stuff all that inside of and get closed. In addition, I read about a few people that also attempted an H80i in the SG10 and did get it to fit, but it was so tight that they later reconsidered and swapped it out. The TJ08B-E is very comparably sized and everyone seems to be puzzled by the flipped motherboard, but then later says that it really works out well. It really appears to be a nice setup with plenty of room on the backside of the mobo to cable. Lots of nice reviews on that case. The Gryphon Mobo has all its RAM slots on one side of the CPU and so, provided the assorted "stuff" surrounding the CPU isn't too "tall" then I should be able to fit the H80i there nicely. I've looked at some photos of folks with that same setup, just not that same motherboard so it seems very likely it'll work fine. If not, I think I could always mount one of the H80i fans outside of the case. That 180mm front fan as an intake, and setting up the H80i as exhaust should work pretty good I'd think.

 

[1Wolf]

tiraides,

Just wanted to say thanks again for the help

Parts ordered. Only made a few small changes.

Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5Ghz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core
ASUS Gryphon Z87 LGA1150 Intel Z87
Corsair Hydro Series H80i Water Cooler
Corsair Vengeance 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600
Seasonic X650 Gold 650W full modular PSU
MSI Gaming N760 TF @GD5/OC GeForce GTX 760 2GB
Samsung 840 Series MZ-TD250BW 250GB 2.5" SSD SATA III
Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE OEM SATA DVD Burner
Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E
Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit OEM
​

 

[tiraides]

The only thing I don't see is the PSU. What did you get?

 

[1Wolf]

Oops....I just forgot to add it to the list above.

I went with the exact one you recommended. The Seasonic X650. I edited my post above to add it.

 

[tiraides]

Looks good.

Please show some pictures of the completed build whenever you can.