HELP!!!! Deal gone bad! this is the 1st one...need help!

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rtmbp4l

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 23, 2000
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500
This is bad and by far the worst sitution i have even been in over the 7 years I have been trading on forums!
Read it all as the end is the worst part and I need help as i have never had to deal with something like this

Ok backround on me: 6 years on the board, old school AGN, pretty well respected as well as never having a unresolved deal in 500+ transactions, 8 years of my own computer consultant company.100+ pos heat etc..


ok here is the situation. MY grandma (family friend, 80+ years old) I promised her I would get her a laptop so she could check her email and do some other little tasks for cheap (she only gets SS) around $300...well i boosted that up to $350 and told her i would deliver it to her (she is in LA, CA and im in las vegas, NV).


April 29th:
ok on to the deal. i percastonated for a bit then i realized it was getting close to the time i was suppost to deleiver it so i posted on the 3 big boards looking for a laptop. I got an offer from (X - will add later) for a laptop but i had to buy the battery for it and it but its perfect other then that: it ended up that time ran out and i didnt get it that and couldn't go out to LA. oh well i told her next weekend i would.

ok no big deal the deal was called off before anything happened so its fine

***

ok now its may 9th and i reinitiated contact with him to ask if he still had it and he said yes so we agreed on a deal and here is the 1st PM of this set of contacts:

"So, take $350, pickup the battery (it's for a Toshiba Tecra 8100) then PP to [email protected] the difference between $350 and the cost of the battery. I will ship, insured to $400, as soon as I receive the payment. If I receive payment before 330PM CDT (130PM PDT) then I will ship that day. I will e-mail you tracking info the night it ships out."

that was on monday

on tuesday (may 11th): I paypaled
Date:
May 10, 2005
Time:
13:06:36 PDT
Status:
Completed

and his statement: "I will need to receive payment by 130 PM Pacific for same day shipment. Thanks."

at the same time i ordered the new battery for $66 + handling

ok well this is the PM i got (may 11th - after paypaled):

"This is an update to let you know you haven't been trolled, but I did screw up.

You will get one today. I forgot that I didn't install the copy of Windows 2000 Pro that's licensed for it. Since this is purely a product of my being lazy, I will upgrade your shipping to Air service at no extra charge. Once again, sorry for this mishap. I'm installing 2000 Pro right now, there's a COA for it on the bottom. I will load SP4 on it before it ships out today."


((((OFFERED TO SHIP IT AIR TO MAKE UP FOR THE TIME LOSS)))))


and this one: (this is wed may12th - 2 days after paypal)

"A couple of things. I had to get a video driver for it from Toshiba, as one did not ship with 2K SP4. Also, I had a problem that caused it to not POST after the reboot during 2000 setup. I moved the RAM to the other slot on the mobo, and am running MemTest86 on it as we speak. As I write this, it is 30% complete with zero errors, and hte setup also completed error free after the switch.

I realize that it has cost quite a bit of time, but I want to ensure that your experience is trouble free. I have installed 2000 w/ SP4, set the installed name to 'Rick Brown,' Area Code to 702, and your username to 'Administrator' with no password.

There is a USB port on the back of it, it has a plastic cover over it that has the USB logo on it. Give me two more hours to provide tracking info, or I have trolled you. Thanks for your trust."

Im a little frightened as this is getting close to the time im going ot need it. I would like ot have it for the weekend and it should have been but now it wed and he gives me the tracking anumber and i look i tup and its a UPS GROUND! he said he would ship it air, its coming from indy.


NOW IT GETS BAD: wed was my birthday and thursday was when i was going to LA, made lots of plans in LA including my gma was so excited that i was bringing her the laptop finally. ok well i got it in the mail WED! that is more then a week (8 days) since i paypaled! i go to boot it up and its DEAD. also i was told that the laptop screen and "hard drive" was mint! i had no idea what the hard drive means but i assumed it was the hard drive. it was scratched and 1/2 the screws on the bottom where stripped! well either way it was DEAD. no screen, no backlight, with the new battery in or the old...etc..just DEAD!

so now my trip is screwed as well as my trip to LA!...oh well

now i PM him and he runs through some different troubleshooting things....i have tried them all (its what i do for a living) but i just did it to go through the hoops for him! nothing! still DEAD.

MAy 19th! thursday! the day i was suppost to leave for my trip was the last time i heard from him!....i sent him a bunch of PM's asking what do we do now. he said I should shipit back to him and then he will TRY to fix it and split the shipping cost...so then i pay even MORE for this laptop that is shaky at best! he also wants me to open it up! what? i get paid $100/hr to do this kind of stuff and i dont have time with my compnay to mess with this laptop! i already spent 2 hours on it!

ok finally after a good 5 PM's i got this resopnse TODAY! (may 26th thurs)

"Why have I been hiding from this?

Well, it just seems that you haven't been all that interested in resolving this. You haven't (and said you won't) looked inside, you didn't act at all interested in shipping it back...at that point, what am I supposed to do?

When it comes down to it, there was never a no DOA guarantee agreed to. As I've told you before, that was the reason for the shipping delay - I used that time to verify that a working product left my hands. You can look at the contents of the hard drive and verify that I indeed installed Windows and SP4 for you - the registered owner is 'Rick Brown' and I set the area code for the modem to '702' There are too many variables between here and Henderson NV that I cannot be held responsible for.

I am prepared to offer you a refund in the amount of $40.00 for the discrepancy between the promised air shipping and the actual ground shipping you received. That is at least partly my fault, and I will step up and cover MBE's goof up. You may also leave feedback - whatever you like - on HeatWare for XXXXXXXX. I will leave positive feedback for you for prompt payment and good communication. If you don't use Heat, I will leave that feedback with whatever service you may use, or if this gesture means nothing to you, I apologize."


WHAT? is that serious? i have put $66 in the battery and my time, messed up my trip....and NO DOA? what is that?



Someone help me! im sure that dosent make 100% sense as its long! what do you think I should do!


HELP!



RTM
 
I think from your version of the story, this is a bad trade, and he has not acted in good faith. You should not have to take apart the laptop. I bet he pulled the H/D out, installed Win2K on it through another machine and put it back in. Was it packed well? If I were in your shoes, I would be heading to him for a refund or another working laptop period. Did you check him out well before dealing with him? $40.00 refund is bull. For the price you paid on the laptop and having to buy a new battery, it should be working. I guess it really depends what the actual communications between you both reflects. It is not your place to ask for a non DOA guarantee, it is his place as the seller to advise he cannot or will not guarantee it.. Bad Trader IMHO.. Report him, and take steps to get a refund.
CTSxViper
 
Not falmin ya or anything. But this post belongs in the troll section. Forum mods can help and give you some suggestions if you'll post there.
 
agreed, ask a mod to move this to the troll section,
also ask them to get involved -
can you get a refund (did you pay via paypal or cc or some other protected way? cancel check?)
let him know immediately after cancellation of payment
no guarantee of DOA? Then what was all that talk about "you will only need a new battery?"
wise not to post the "presumed offender's" name yet...
best of luck with a bad situation...
If he his scamming you - report him to the proper legal authorities and press charges.
 
ok well then mods can you move this over? thanks and i would appreciate any help you can give me
 
Pay to ship it back out of your pocket. That is the end of your obligation. If he receives the laptop back in similar packaging, using similar shipment, in a condition that indicates it has not been physically abused, he is obligated to refund your payment (minus actual shipping charges).

If he doesn't, contact trollhunters and moderators on the forums where you made the purchase immediately. Post negative heat on his account immediately linking to this thread. Provide the tracking information of the return shipment to paypal in your dispute that you need to file before 30 days transpire. Did you send payment to a verified paypal address and from a verified paypal address? If so, did you purchase buyer protection (was it offered)? If you paid paypal with a credit card, withdraw any remaining funds.. when they clear from paypal to your bank account, dispute the $350 charge with your credit card company and stop using paypal forever.

It is the responsibility of the seller to get the goods to the buyer in the condition stated. If the sale is AS-IS or No-DOA, that must be disclosed up front.

Good luck!

EDIT: Before I forget, PM me his heatware and userid's so I can add him to my DNT list so I don't have to deal with him in the future.
 
TechnoButt said:
EDIT: Before I forget, PM me his heatware and userid's so I can add him to my DNT list so I don't have to deal with him in the future.
Click to expand...
If he's not a troll, post his name, PM him a link to this thread, and he can come explain himself and save his reputation
If he is a troll, post his name, PM him a link to this thread, and he won't come.
Either way, it is in the best interest of the community to know who the offending member is; it helps protect everyone by allowing people to decide not to trade with him until this is resolved.
 
A) I am totally at fault for the missed ship date. I did run into an issue with it during the installation of Windows 2000. It took some time to resolve the issue, due to procrastination on my part.
B) When I went to MBE to ship it out, I requested Air service for delivery on Tuesday (this was the Thrusday before). Their computer was broken, so I had to scribble the tracking number on my receipt and hope for the best. The best didn't happen.
C) The unit was working when it left my care. It passed MemTest86 3.1 100% error free, and successfully installed Windows 2000, and ServicePack4 network. I installed a third party display driver, as one did not ship with 2000 or SP4. I set the installed UserName to his PP name and the phone and modem area code and time zone to his locality.
D) I am personally disappointed that another user would suggest that I installed Windows on to the hard drive while it was in another system. If this was true, how would I have been able to install the display driver?
E) There was never a no DoA guarantee agreed to. We agreed to $350 for the system, carrying case, AC Adapter, and a new battery. I only received payment for the system, adapter and case. The cost of a new battery was deducted from that $350, as he acquired it from a dealer. If I was out to troll this member, would I have admited that the system needed a new battery and agreed to, in effect, purchase the battery for him?

Yes, I was faced with a dilemma before I shipped it out. Make the ship date with an item that I could not verify worked, or miss the ship date with a product that I had verified as working. I chose the latter. It is the fault of the carrier (it ended up being UPS Ground, even though my MBE receipt says FedEx) that it arrived non functional.
 
You say there was never a DOA agreement.


Did you openly state in the thread or in conversation you are not offering DOA insurance?
 
no DOA is a copout. unless you stated this is sold AS-IS or this is broke as hell then he has no reason not to think the product works. so if you claim to be selling a working product and he receives a non-working product then you damn well need to do something about it. if you thought- hey, hopefully this will work, but i'm not sure- then you should have made that clear in your dealings with him and he probably would have offered less . . . or not. who knows, but he'd be aware the thing might not work.

you say that the fault lies with the carrier. guess what. that makes it your problem, not his. for one, the buyer never received a working product. so why are you saddling him with dealing with UPS? he didn't get what he paid for so he should get his money back. secondly, i am fairly certain (having gone through this a few years ago) that the shipper is the one who needs to initiate the claim with UPS. the person who received the item cannot do that. at least this was the rule 3 or 4 years ago.

how would you feel in his shoes? would you feel you got treated fairly? i wouldn't.
 
4b5eN+EE said:
DougLite
Moderator

o.0
Click to expand...

^^ What he said.

big daddy fatsacks said:
no DOA is a copout. unless you stated this is sold AS-IS or this is broke as hell then he has no reason not to think the product works. so if you claim to be selling a working product and he receives a non-working product then you damn well need to do something about it. if you thought- hey, hopefully this will work, but i'm not sure- then you should have made that clear in your dealings with him and he probably would have offered less . . . or not. who knows, but he'd be aware the thing might not work.

you say that the fault lies with the carrier. guess what. that makes it your problem, not his. for one, the buyer never received a working product. so why are you saddling him with dealing with UPS? he didn't get what he paid for so he should get his money back. secondly, i am fairly certain (having gone through this a few years ago) that the shipper is the one who needs to initiate the claim with UPS. the person who received the item cannot do that. at least this was the rule 3 or 4 years ago.

how would you feel in his shoes? would you feel you got treated fairly? i wouldn't.
Click to expand...

^^ Him too.
 
maybe off topic but can you answer some questions for me?

"now i PM him and he runs through some different troubleshooting things....i have tried them all (its what i do for a living)"

SO I guess you troubleshoot hardware problems for a living? Who exactly do you work for that pays 100/hr just to troubleshoot hardware?

" i get paid $100/hr to do this kind of stuff and i dont have time with my compnay to mess with this laptop!"


Ok so now i'm really confused... you get paid 100/hr to troubleshoot hardware problems "For a living" but yet you don't even know what a hard drive is?!?!?!?

"also i was told that the laptop screen and "hard drive" was mint! i had no idea what the hard drive means but i assumed it was the hard drive."

I know this doesn't have to do with resolving the post, but please, my head hurts... make the pain go away...
 
Some Llama said:
Ok so now i'm really confused... you get paid 100/hr to troubleshoot hardware problems "For a living" but yet you don't even know what a hard drive is?!?!?!?

"also i was told that the laptop screen and "hard drive" was mint! i had no idea what the hard drive means but i assumed it was the hard drive."

I know this doesn't have to do with resolving the post, but please, my head hurts... make the pian go away...
Click to expand...
^^ what he said

o.0
 
if he shipped with 400$ in insurance, you should get (douglite?) to give you the insurance money in the total of which it was insured.

you can ship him back the craptop which was not working, and get the insurance money.

douglite, it is dishonest. ive bought and sold MANY laptops from people online, and i NEVER couldnt turn it on due to "bad shipping." and how the hell are the screws missing?

when you installed everything onto the laptop, you inturn had made the assumption that it was... dare i say it... working! you believe something happened between your location and his, great, but screws falling out, displays totally not working. and you can install drivers even with it being hooked up to another computer.
 
1. rtmbp4l, please explain what this means: "also i was told that the laptop screen and "hard drive" was mint! i had no idea what the hard drive means but i assumed it was the hard drive."

2. Things sold on forums generally are assumed to come with a non DOA warranty unless stated specifically that it is broken. It's sort of an unwritten moral code. There have been lots of people banned from various forums becuase they sold dead hardware as working.

3. There is no way that UPS will accept an insurance claim on an object whose packaging is in good condition. rtmbp4l, please show us some pics of the packaging.
 
It was working when it left my care. I would never sell deadware. I have worked too hard, put in too much time, and acheieved too much here to ruin it by deliberately scamming a member. You may choose not to believe this assertion. If the community does not believe me when I say that and calls me a troll, I am prepared to walk away from all that I have accomplished/contributed here. It is simply not worth posting in a community where you are identified as a liar. Yes, I did make errors. Yes, this deal did not go as planned. Yes, my part of this deal could have been better executed.
 
I don't think anyone thinks you are a "liar"...just that you may not be an ethical trader.
It has always been an accepted policy on trading forums that the seller is responsible for an item until it has reached the buyer in the agreed upon condition. It is also generally accepted that an item is in working condition unless otherwise specified.
The item in question appears to be inopperable and there apparently wasn't an "as-is" stated....IMO, the buyer should get his refund and you get the item back.
 
BBG: Why do you assume that they will even ask to look at the packaging. I've had a claim before from UPS, and they never even asked to see the box.

DougLite said:
And yes, I have items that I personally have had to accept as DoA - I have two doorstop SCSI hard drives that I paid good money for. That's one of the reasons for the substantial discounts for FS/T trade items. They do not have the guarantees of new items.
Click to expand...
:shrug: I wouldn't stand for that as a buyer. I raise hell if stuff comes broken unless I bought it "as-is" "untested" "broken" because those statements always shift the burden of working-ness, if you will, to the buyer.

Synth3t1c said:
if he shipped with 400$ in insurance, you should get (douglite?) to give you the insurance money in the total of which it was insured.

you can ship him back the craptop which was not working, and get the insurance money.

douglite, it is dishonest. ive bought and sold MANY laptops from people online, and i NEVER couldnt turn it on due to "bad shipping." and how the hell are the screws missing?

when you installed everything onto the laptop, you inturn had made the assumption that it was... dare i say it... working! you believe something happened between your location and his, great, but screws falling out, displays totally not working. and you can install drivers even with it being hooked up to another computer.
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He shouldn't have to give up that insurance money until a claim is paid.
As for you never having a shipping damage experience, why does that make it impossible and "dishonest" when someone else does? Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean shit doesn't happen to other people in other trades. Missing screws? Again, that could easily be an honest oversight. And of course had the assumption that it was working. He has stated numerous times that it worked when he had it and even spent extra time ensuring that it worked before shipping it out.

DougLite & rtmbp4l: What was the condition of the battery that you shipped with? 100% dead? Was there an AC adapter with the laptop? If so, have you tried that?

rtmbp4l: The battery cost is yours and yours alone. The only thing you are out is the cost of the laptop - shipping costs. It is unreasonable that you are unwilling even to open up the laptop and try some troubleshooting. What if something simple just got knocked loose or disconnected in shipping? If you ship it back to DL, and it works, you'll have a bit of 'splainin to do. 8 days from Paypal to your door is *not that bad* at all. He was willing to refund you the difference between the promised shipping and what actually occured. You can't fault him for that

Both sides need to conceed a little bit and try to compromise in this situation.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
BBG: Why do you assume that they will even ask to look at the packaging. I've had a claim before from UPS, and they never even asked to see the box.
Click to expand...

I've filed claims with UPS and USPS and they both wanted to see the packaging.
 
It has been consistently stated by me, even in past FS/T threads I've had with this laptop in them, that the battery that I got with it is no longer capable of holding a charge. If you unplug the unit from the wall with the old battery installed, it will be out of juice in less than 15 minutes. That's why I agreed to pick up the cost of the new battery. The AC adapter went with it from me, as did the laptop itself and a Case Logic carrying case. The website of the third party vendor (Kahlon) where I recommended the battery be purchased is down at present, so I cannot provide a link, but it's a New, OEM direct from Toshiba battery with one year warranty for Toshiba Tecra 8100. You can see the entry for yourself on Pricewatch by going to the 'Notebook - Battery' category, searching for 'Tecra 8100,' and it's the third entry in the results. I was not informed of the other party's final decision on where to purchase a battery, but I would presume that this is the dealer he used. I did the legwork on Pricewatch, but he made the purchase so as to make a warranty claim on the battery, should it be necessary, much easier and so as to not require an alternate shipping address on my credit card. Obviously, if he states otherwise on how the battery was acquired, forget what I said.
 
DougLite said:
EDIT: Here's a pic of the system working, dated March 31, 2005. I realize that it is some time ago, but it does prove that the system worked while it was in my possession. The background picture is the Eads Bridge from St Louis MO to East St Louis IL, taken by yours truly.
Click to expand...

So was this picture taken before the system was re-installed for rtmbp4l?

Why did you take the picture?


You know what that picture reminds me of? The bridge level in HL2 where you try to cross but the train comes...
 
Correct. I purchased the unit in December of last year, and upgraded it to XP Professional using a workstation license I have. I used it on and off until March, when I decided that I could use it's resale value for other projects more important to me. The system is licensed for 1-2 CPUs on 2000 Professional (there's a CoA as such on the bottom), and I installed 2000 Pro and SP4 on the unit before it shipped.

I took the picture at the request of a member who expressed interest in the unit before this sale. Obviously, nothing came of that, but I still do have six other pictures of the unit, from the same date.
 
Thanks for the reply.. this makes me think from now on when I'm selling computers or laptops I am going to take a pciture of the thing showing that it is fully installed with the time and date showing ;)
 
Wow, well I guess I should start asking sellers if they DONT cover against DOA from now on :(
 
Please set aside for a second my original involvement in this thread, and allow me to make a general statement.

It is a really good idea to get a written understanding on what will happen if your purchase, espeically one >$200, is DoA. There are plenty of people out there selling buyer beware stuff - untested, broken, etc. It was my understanding that when buying from other individuals, that you accepted the risk for the products, and that you trusted what the seller represented about the item was true. That's one of the things that you pay extra for when buying from a business. I now understand that the existing culture here is different.

When you ask about a No DoA guarantee, the worst that happens is the seller says no, and you look elsewhere, or you work an appropriate discount. I don't think this should be a hard and fast rule, but it's a good idea. It's only an extra sentence in a PM, it would have prevented this incident from blowing up, and it's a sound practive to cover all of the bases. No one wants or expects their item to come DoA, but as we see here, it happens. Obviously, a no DoA guarantee/policy on a case fan is pretty pointless, but if you're trading big stuff, cover all the possibilities.

This is a Tips and Tricks forum as well - as a community, we need to learn from bad experiences so that they are not repeated. This particular situation is in a sort of impasse right now - last I heard, the notebook was on it's way back to me. We shall see what happens when it returns. Also, we haven't heard from the OP since the 26th, we should probably allow him to speak again before there's any more discussion ;)
 
I believe that you guys should just gather the insurance money, part it in whatever ways that you want, and call it an end. Although I am quite shocked the a Mod has been accused of bad shipping customs, everyone makes mistakes. Also, about the picture, I think that it is not very helpful because one day, a computer can be working fine and when you boot it up the next, it may not work. March 31 is also a long time ago.
 
If the seller is advertising an item as being working the buyer should not have to ask for a DOA agreement. Only if the item is being advertised as untested or as is should the buyer consider asking for one if he so chooses. It is reasonable for someone to expect a working part if it is advertised as working.
 
DougLite said:
Please set aside for a second my original involvement in this thread, and allow me to make a general statement.

It is a really good idea to get a written understanding on what will happen if your purchase, espeically one >$200, is DoA. There are plenty of people out there selling buyer beware stuff - untested, broken, etc. It was my understanding that when buying from other individuals, that you accepted the risk for the products, and that you trusted what the seller represented about the item was true. That's one of the things that you pay extra for when buying from a business. I now understand that the existing culture here is different.

When you ask about a No DoA guarantee, the worst that happens is the seller says no, and you look elsewhere, or you work an appropriate discount. I don't think this should be a hard and fast rule, but it's a good idea. It's only an extra sentence in a PM, it would have prevented this incident from blowing up, and it's a sound practive to cover all of the bases. No one wants or expects their item to come DoA, but as we see here, it happens. Obviously, a no DoA guarantee/policy on a case fan is pretty pointless, but if you're trading big stuff, cover all the possibilities.

This is a Tips and Tricks forum as well - as a community, we need to learn from bad experiences so that they are not repeated. This particular situation is in a sort of impasse right now - last I heard, the notebook was on it's way back to me. We shall see what happens when it returns. Also, we haven't heard from the OP since the 26th, we should probably allow him to speak again before there's any more discussion ;)
Click to expand...


.

You MODS are NOT gods and cant be expected to be perfect. However, I have seen many deals with similiar miss-comunications and other problems handled in a manner I thought was outstanding. Someone calls out a seller....seller comes on apologizes and fixes the situation beyond what could be expected by the buyer.

everyone happy!!

As a MOD I am surprised you dont take this tact.
 
JL_Audio_User said:
.

You MODS are NOT gods and cant be expected to be perfect. However, I have seen many deals with similiar miss-comunications and other problems handled in a manner I thought was outstanding. Someone calls out a seller....seller comes on apologizes and fixes the situation beyond what could be expected by the buyer.

everyone happy!!

As a MOD I am surprised you dont take this tact.
Click to expand...

^^^^^
Yeah.
 
Some Llama said:
Thanks for the reply.. this makes me think from now on when I'm selling computers or laptops I am going to take a pciture of the thing showing that it is fully installed with the time and date showing ;)
Click to expand...
Dates can be changed on computers, you'll have to do it with a newspaper in the pic. :p
 
DougLite said:
Please set aside for a second my original involvement in this thread, and allow me to make a general statement.

It is a really good idea to get a written understanding on what will happen if your purchase, espeically one >$200, is DoA. There are plenty of people out there selling buyer beware stuff - untested, broken, etc. It was my understanding that when buying from other individuals, that you accepted the risk for the products, and that you trusted what the seller represented about the item was true. That's one of the things that you pay extra for when buying from a business. I now understand that the existing culture here is different.

When you ask about a No DoA guarantee, the worst that happens is the seller says no, and you look elsewhere, or you work an appropriate discount. I don't think this should be a hard and fast rule, but it's a good idea. It's only an extra sentence in a PM, it would have prevented this incident from blowing up, and it's a sound practive to cover all of the bases. No one wants or expects their item to come DoA, but as we see here, it happens. Obviously, a no DoA guarantee/policy on a case fan is pretty pointless, but if you're trading big stuff, cover all the possibilities.

This is a Tips and Tricks forum as well - as a community, we need to learn from bad experiences so that they are not repeated. This particular situation is in a sort of impasse right now - last I heard, the notebook was on it's way back to me. We shall see what happens when it returns. Also, we haven't heard from the OP since the 26th, we should probably allow him to speak again before there's any more discussion ;)
Click to expand...


No. Unless an item is stated to be AS-IS or UNTESTED or another variation of these words, items that are sold as working need to arrive to the buyer as WORKING. It is strictly on the shoulder of the seller to provide the buyer with decent goods. There should be NO risk involved when purchasing from individuals. The only disadvantage should be that the items are used or may not be warrantied anymore, not that they may arrive broken. Buyers do have to assume that the seller is accurately representing their goods, but the seller also has to be able to prove that they were by DELIVERING the goods as described, not by giving them a broken item and showing a picture of it supposedly working as promised before shipment.
 
You could always use the [H]ardOCP front page, time.nist.gov, and of course the 8.5x11 with your [H]ardForum name on it. The newspaper is a good idea too, but I don't subscribe to one :(

Also, back to the original situation: The OP, according to his Public Profile, hasn't been online since 10:13PM on the 26th, so he hasn't seen anything I've said yet (or anythign in this thread after #7), unless he has an e-mail notification subscription. I also haven't received any word on the laptop's location - last I heard, it was getting shipped back to me (that was on the 26th) and I still haven't received any verification of that, or any information on its precise whereabouts. He has a phone number, my PP addy, my non-free e-mail addy, and PM's here. So far nothing through any of those channels since the 26th. Wait and see folks.
 
DougLite said:
You could always use the [H]ardOCP front page, time.nist.gov, and of course the 8.5x11 with your [H]ardForum name on it. The newspaper is a good idea too, but I don't subscribe to one :(

Also, back to the original situation: The OP, according to his Public Profile, hasn't been online since 10:13PM on the 26th, so he hasn't seen anything I've said yet (or anythign in this thread after #7), unless he has an e-mail notification subscription. I also haven't received any word on the laptop's location - last I heard, it was getting shipped back to me (that was on the 26th) and I still haven't received any verification of that, or any information on its precise whereabouts. He has a phone number, my PP addy, my non-free e-mail addy, and PM's here. So far nothing through any of those channels since the 26th. Wait and see folks.
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it is memorial day weekend... he could be out of town.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
*snip*
He shouldn't have to give up that insurance money until a claim is paid.
As for you never having a shipping damage experience, why does that make it impossible and "dishonest" when someone else does? Just because you've been lucky doesn't mean shit doesn't happen to other people in other trades. Missing screws? Again, that could easily be an honest oversight. And of course had the assumption that it was working. He has stated numerous times that it worked when he had it and even spent extra time ensuring that it worked before shipping it out.
*snip*
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okay, so shipping damage with no reported physical damage. ok, then an oversight on the screws, ok. and "ensuring that it works." fine. if theres a problem with it, someone needs to fix it, i suggest the shipping company. they can either refund the cost of the laptop, give the money to the seller, and the seller refund the money to the buyer, or whatever.
 
I believe this is a bad position to be in.I feel sorry for anyone caught on either side of this.I just the other day bought 4 amd chips on ebay untested the seller promissed to make it good if any problems all four were bad he sent me a replacement even though he stated as is but you know what it was bad too even though he stated it was good, what did I do ? I decided I was through with this seller because I can't do anything without getting bad feedback. If I was the seller it would be a bad deal or if I were a buyer it would be bad. part of life I guess, but if I bought a servicable part I would open it at the sellers request of course.I ain't afraid of no computer!!
 
"Please set aside for a second my original involvement in this thread, and allow me to make a general statement.

It is a really good idea to get a written understanding on what will happen if your purchase, espeically one >$200, is DoA. There are plenty of people out there selling buyer beware stuff - untested, broken, etc. It was my understanding that when buying from other individuals, that you accepted the risk for the products, and that you trusted what the seller represented about the item was true. That's one of the things that you pay extra for when buying from a business. I now understand that the existing culture here is different.

When you ask about a No DoA guarantee, the worst that happens is the seller says no, and you look elsewhere, or you work an appropriate discount. I don't think this should be a hard and fast rule, but it's a good idea. It's only an extra sentence in a PM, it would have prevented this incident from blowing up, and it's a sound practive to cover all of the bases. No one wants or expects their item to come DoA, but as we see here, it happens. Obviously, a no DoA guarantee/policy on a case fan is pretty pointless, but if you're trading big stuff, cover all the possibilities.

This is a Tips and Tricks forum as well - as a community, we need to learn from bad experiences so that they are not repeated. This particular situation is in a sort of impasse right now - last I heard, the notebook was on it's way back to me. We shall see what happens when it returns. Also, we haven't heard from the OP since the 26th, we should probably allow him to speak again before there's any more discussion "


OH now its wait to hear from me? i was in LA delivering the laptop that i took a loss on for my gma that i had to buy out of the recycler because of this situation....the battery tha ti bought because i was told that was all it needed to work perfect i guess i smy loss even though it was only purchased because the seller infomed me that it needed it as the old one was dead. either way im out a lot of time and as of right now $350.....I have PMed you many times asking for resolution with no responses! im not going to ship it back till i got a response from you - you have my AIM and all my info i have asked many times to talk to me. It is not my responsibility to have to open it up and fix it. + there are stripped and missing screws and I didnt want the seller blaming me for something. The way i have been trading since dialup BBS's was been its assumed working unless stated otherwise and its up to the buyer to get it to the seller working. this was 100% DOA....My company is a member of the las vegas chamber of commerce and I have been selling computers for 10 years. I have no reason to troll someone over $350! Its about the time i have lost! I just want to send this dead laptop back and get the money i paid for it. I jumped through his troubleshooting" hoops to satisfy him even though i spent 4 hours doings all of those that wed! (my birthday). so lets get this resolved! mod or not evertime i have been on the buyer side of this i just step up and i have MANY situations like this in my ~ 600 deals on the boards....ask around

Rick
AIM: rtmbp4l
MAIL: rtm @ rtmcomputing.com
 
you deserve a full refund imho. I would wait for that before shipping it back to him. I also would try and file a claim with paypal or your credit card company to get back your money if he isn't cooperating with you fully.
 
DougLite said:
E) There was never a no DoA guarantee agreed to. We agreed to $350 for the system, carrying case, AC Adapter, and a new battery. I only received payment for the system, adapter and case. The cost of a new battery was deducted from that $350, as he acquired it from a dealer. If I was out to troll this member, would I have admited that the system needed a new battery and agreed to, in effect, purchase the battery for him?
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thats bullshit dude unless you said AS IS. just refund him. and mark this up as a lesson.
 
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