Help!! Computer Won't Boot

K

kevdoggx

Guest
Sorry for the caps on the title but I really need help I think I mighta messed things up bad.

I was taking the lid off my computer and I think i touched some components and might shorted something out and now when i press the power button the computer does nothing. I tried power cycling, nothing. I'm hoping that this isn't a permanent thing and there's something I can do short of returning components,

Thanks so much to everyone who can help me on this topic in advance!!
 
I know I'm being extremely impatient but I might go insane over this someone just please let me know what I need to do!
 
Unplug from the wall. Let it sit for a few seconds. Reset the CMOS. Plug it back in and see if it boots.

If not, unplug all drives (IDE, SATA, and power cables) and see if it will post.

/edit: is it the system in your sig?
 
BigBadBiologist said:
Unplug from the wall. Let it sit for a few seconds. Reset the CMOS. Plug it back in and see if it boots.

If not, unplug all drives (IDE, SATA, and power cables) and see if it will post.
Click to expand...

Tried it all and it doesn't work. I think that it might be the video card because when I plug the power cable back in the PSU fan still spins up and the video card was the part that i touched with the case when I was taking it off.

This is driving me nuts, I don't want to have to wait while replacements come!!!
 
One time when I was putting the cover back on my shuttle, I actually pinched an IDE cable and shorted out the system as long as that cable was still in the system. Replaced the cable and everything was fine.
 
I wish that was the problem and it was that easy, but I took it all apart already and I didn't pinch any cables.

I was just a moron and took the cover off while it was running and touched the video card with the case(I know I'm a moron, let me have it).

Here's my BIG question:

If I touched the video card and only the video card, is it almost certain that the video card is the problem and returning that should solve it?

If someone can give me a definitive answer on that question I would feel better.

I already called my rep at Dell who I bought the card from and asked him to call me tomorrow so hopefully I can get the ball rolling on the RMA, I just want to make sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks!
 
WHOA WHOA WHOA skippy... Take this one step at a time.

First, unplug EVERYTHING from your drives. If nothing else you'll at least have a chance of saving your data.

Next, remove all the cards (yes, ALL of them) so that you're left with only the power supply, motherboard, CPU and RAM. Plug in the power and hit the power button, you should get some beeps (1 long 2 short if memory serves me right). If not, power it off and remove all your RAM then power it back on. This time you should get 1 long beep or a long beep that repeats (IE. beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep or beeeeeeep....beeeeeeep....beeeeeeeep).

If you don't get the second beep code, you're looking at either a fried motherboard or bad power supply. A power supply is easy to check, get a new one and plug it in. If you DO get the long beep, power it off and put one stick of RAM back in, power it up and see if you get several beeps instead of the long beep. Rinse, repeat until all of your RAM is reinstalled.

After that, reinstall your video card, rinse repeat. (At this point you should get a display on the screen. If you don't, and it passed the first tests, you're correct, the video card is shot)
 
The problem is that a lot of shuttles don't have on board speakers and don't do beep codes, so one of the only ways to tell if shuttles are POSTing is to listen to the main fan speed (it should spin up to full speed and then slow down some if it POSTs).
 
BigBadBiologist said:
The problem is that a lot of shuttles don't have on board speakers and don't do beep codes, so one of the only ways to tell if shuttles are POSTing is to listen to the main fan speed (it should spin up to full speed and then slow down some if it POSTs).
Click to expand...

D'OH!!! :eek:

Shuttle....hehehe... missed that.... But yeah he's right, the fan should slow down after a second or two.
 
Well the problem is when I press the power button, the LED on the button doesn't even come on.

The power doesn't come on at all, I hope you guys still have some recommendations for me!!

Thanks again!
 
You removed the video card as well did you not? Didn't you earlier say that you had tested and it worked without it?

Anyway, one thing all people need to have on hand is a dirt-cheap PCI video card as a backup. Not only is it a backup if your real video card fails at times like these, but, it can be used to revert a messed up flash or something as well. And I don't mean get on newegg and buy the cheapest they have (currently an old radeon for $30 something,) I mean find some old computer stores or something and buy one of those $5 or so 1MB trident cards or something. The idea isn't to have something you can play video games on, but, to have something you can use in an emergency.

Ok, that said, just exactly what DID you do when you opened it? It might help if you kind of recounted everything. Did you move around any cables at all or anything? Normally if it won't turn on at all, I'd be inclined to first ensure the power cables to the motherboard weren't loose or something (hard to do, but, not impossible in some cases.) Of course, like was said earlier, if there's a short or something, it will just refuse to come on at all (protections in the power supply.) I've accidentally shorted some main power connections before (fan mod) and my system just simply shut off with no permanent damage.

On the pc speaker thing, do these shuttle systems just not come with a pc speaker plug at all, or do you mean they just don't have the speaker itself? If you can hook up a speaker, and are brave enough to splice cables if you don't have any extra pc speakers around, find some connector that can plug into the appropriate place on the motherboard and splice some cheap old headphones or speakers or something, then just connect the two wires to the two pins on the motherboard (usually it's a four pin area using the outside two pins. I guess this design was in the theory that someday pc speakers might be in stereo -- assuming it was designed like this before the advent of the soundcard, otherwise it's just stupidity.) Direction shouldn't matter on the speaker, so it's hard to mess that up (just don't connect it to something else and cause a short where one shouldn't be is all.)
 
No, I'm a dumbass and took off the cover of the case whilst the computer was running and happened to touch the video card while i was taking off the cover. The computer shut off immediately and then wouldn't start at all since. I hope it's just the video card, but I need someone to confirm this so in case it's the mobo\psu I can call Shuttle tomorrow and get the sytem returned.

Thanks again
 
You should be able to turn it on without the video card in there. It probably won't post, but, it should at least beep to inform you the video card is missing (well, failing any way for sound to come out, it should at least turn on anyway.) If it won't, then something's messed up. Don't judge by the LED, that could have been put on backwards or knocked loose or something, check the fans in the CPU and PSU for movement.

Have you unhooked absolutely everything? You want CPU, motherboard, and powersupply hooked up, and NOTHING else. No harddrives, no video cards, nothing. If it still doesn't turn on, something is definitely damaged, and it's one of those three components. Of course, there's nothing in there that could be shorted right? Were there any cables running along the side or anything that could have been moved around when you took off the side?
 
Nazo said:
Of course, there's nothing in there that could be shorted right?
Click to expand...

What'd you mean by that?

Nazo said:
You want CPU, motherboard, and powersupply hooked up, and NOTHING else.
Click to expand...

Once I have that if nothing still happens should I RMA my Shuttle?
 
kevdoggx said:
Nazo[/quote said:
Of course, there's nothing in there that could be shorted right?
Click to expand...
What'd you mean by that?
Click to expand...
I mean, there's no chance there are any loose wires that could be touching something, a little sliver of metal get caught somewhere connecting two pins, that kind of thing. If you have compressed air handy, blow out the whole thing a little. Never hurts to do that anyway (provided you don't turn the can upside down and spray right on the motherboard...)

kevdoggx said:
Nazo said:
You want CPU, motherboard, and powersupply hooked up, and NOTHING else.
Click to expand...

Once I have that if nothing still happens should I RMA my Shuttle?
Click to expand...
If you have minimal memory (try one stick at a time if you have two) a motherboard, a cpu, and a psu and nothing else, try to turn it on and nothing happens and no shorts or anything like that are going on, something is messed up, and chances are very highly that it's one of those main three (pretty rare memory would do this, so I say the other three are most likely candidates.) In fact, even with a damaged cpu, it will usually at least turn on, though it may be too messed up even to beep at you if it did have a speaker. If you can ask a friend or something, you could maybe borrow another PSU and narrow it down even further. Chances are, of those three it's either the PSU or the motherboard even since as I said it really should at least turn on with the cpu damaged. At this point, I'd say RMA is about all you can do because you can't do any further diagnostics of a system that won't even turn on.
 
Nazo said:
(provided you don't turn the can upside down and spray right on the motherboard...)
Click to expand...

Heh heh...;)


Nazo said:
If you have minimal memory (try one stick at a time if you have two) a motherboard, a cpu, and a psu and nothing else, try to turn it on and nothing happens and no shorts or anything like that are going on, something is messed up, and chances are very highly that it's one of those main three (pretty rare memory would do this, so I say the other three are most likely candidates.) In fact, even with a damaged cpu, it will usually at least turn on, though it may be too messed up even to beep at you if it did have a speaker. If you can ask a friend or something, you could maybe borrow another PSU and narrow it down even further. Chances are, of those three it's either the PSU or the motherboard even since as I said it really should at least turn on with the cpu damaged. At this point, I'd say RMA is about all you can do because you can't do any further diagnostics of a system that won't even turn on.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, I'm hoping if I look through it I'll find that a cable jsut came loose.

Anyone know how many cables there are connecting to the little daughterboard on the shuttle, I wanna make sure that i didn't pull that out. I just have a feeling I'm goin to have to play the waiting game on this one.

Any chance If I RMA to Shuttle they could send me a new one with return postage paid and then I cna drop my old machine in the box and send it back, no cost to me? That would be solid if I could.
 
Daughterboard?

These days, you either have one long connection and a small four pin one, or, more recently, essentially the long thing with the four pin connected directly to it making it longer. Whichever of those you have, it goes into the motherboard. If the long thing is plugged in, but, not the four pin one if it's seperate (look for a large square plug nearby the long one) then your system won't turn on. If the other one is missing it still won't. Other than cpu fan and that sort of thing, that's about the only cable that should need to be connected to just turn the system on. Heck, disconnect all fans and everything else on the molex connectors. The idea is to narrow the problem down to an absolute minimum number of components.

Hope you can borrow a PSU. That sounds like a good candidate for a problem like this. Even a messed up motherboard will usually turn on if nothing else, so it'd have to be pretty messed up, but, a PSU only has to be a little messed up and it may not turn on.
 
Well, when I plug the cord into the back of the PSU and flip the switch it still makes a little sound and the lights in the room dim a little. Also, the fan spins up for real short too. This makes me think it's not the PSU.
 
I don't know. A short or something might do that in the time it takes it to trigger the protection.

What you really need right now is a second PSU you can borrow if but for a moment just for testing. That or another computer to test the PSU in. Either way you'd be able to tell for certain which it is once and for all.
 
If it's dimming the lights I would say something is up with the power supply. It should draw that much amperage. Otherwise, check to make sure the power button jumper is connected or just short it out with a screwdriver.
 
Kudos on that, that's a pretty useful link. I always wondered how one might force a modern power supply to cut on. I knew it was possible via switch because the old ones back when they were still switching over to 20-pin had an external switch still (mind you, this defeats some of the purpose since it breaks the concept of a "smart-switch,") at least, one or two did because I had one a while back. Not sure I'd want to do that with a paperclip though, lol, I'd want to use something insulated, just in case... Especially considering that we're talking about a possibly damaged power supply.

Ok, kevdoggx, unhook the cables from absolutely everything now and try that, it should force the power supply to cut on. Unless I'm mistaken, this will not be a momentary toggle, so leave the paperclip or whatever you use I guess.

If you still get the lights dimming and the fan just barely starting to move, your PSU is probably fried and I guess you'll have to get a new one. It should have a safety, but, remove that paperclip after it becomes clear it won't turn on should this happen.

This test should confirm once and for all whether it's the board or the PSU at fault here.

EDIT: Why is that person explaining how to do that rather than saying "you can only do this with our product"? d-:
 
Nazo said:
Not sure I'd want to do that with a paperclip though, lol, I'd want to use something insulated, just in case... Especially considering that we're talking about a possibly damaged power supply.
Click to expand...

Even on a failed power supply you're talking ~5 volts DC. The AC portion is isolated on an entirely seperate section within the PS and that's the only part that will really get you.


kevdogg I'm agreeing with the short theory. If the lights are dimming as soon as you plug it in there's something seriously wrong either in the Mobo or the power supply as that's a short. Even my 550 Watt power supply didn't dim the lights when I turned it on.

Question: Do the fans spin when you push the power button or do they move slightly and that's it? If the latter is true, it's a short somewhere.
 
The_Mage18 said:
Even on a failed power supply you're talking ~5 volts DC.
Click to expand...
5V at how much amperage? I mean, a car battery uses 12V, but, I dare you to hold one lead and touch the other with your tounge. Call me from the hospital to tell me how it turns out later. ^_^ And, if something's shorting out, you can't predict WHAT you have...

Anyway, he already said that the fans just barely move. We're all thinking short here now. Whether it's a short in the PSU or the MB is not yet certain. Sounds to me like something got a major static discharge and connected circuits that shouldn't be I guess.
 
I think that the lights dimming might be a result of my apartment wiring. My good computer does that too and it's a 550W psu.

I'll give all this stuff a try tomorrow, I need to clean up this fuckin mess I have here... It's part of what's frustrating me so much.
 
I looked into that PSU test thing but I don't have a 20-pin connector since its a Shuttle is different...but thanks!

Any one else have any ideas?
 
OK, the system seems to work fine with another video card... But the weird thing it as soon as I plug the power in the back and flip the switch, the fans come on full blast
before i ever press the power button(the LED stays off in the front, and the PSU fan also stays off but all the other fans run). Then when I press the power button the power LED comes on and the PSU fan starts up. I don't know what the deal with this is so I'm goin to play around with it some more.

Guess I need to get Dell on the horn ASAP and tlak to them about returning the video card.
 
Man this is super gay... Now when I turn the comptuer on the fans are in SMART mode so they're quiet but when I turn it off the power LED goes off and the machine is off but the fans go back into full blast, yet the PSU fan shuts off again. Please let me know what the problem is with this if anyone has experienced it before.

Thanks
 
Damnit I picked the worst time to have something like this happen...

I'm leaving for Chicago for vacation for the next 5 days and classes start 2 weeks from today. I also told the kid who bought my computer from me that he would have it this weekend and now I'm goin to have to wait through the whole fucking RMA process. I'm going to be in classes when I finish this shit and by then I will hardly have any time for it since I have 6 classes this sem... UGH!
 
Geez, talk about a mass posting... You know, a simple edit or two would suffice.

Well, in order. First, on the power supply connector, it seems unlikely that they'd be dumb enough to completely deviate from standards. Are you sure it wasn't just the 24 pin connector that you saw? If they really did deviate from the standard, you'll be forced to replace both the board and PSU next upgrade and I'm amazed people would choose to actually buy from them if that were the case (even e-machines still used a standard plug and all, just you couldn't hardly fit a normal PSU in the stupid case.) Either way, don't just assume things are different simply because it's a shuttle system. Computers rely on standards and every deviation costs them customers.

That said, since it works with another video card (uhm, we did say to try it without that damaged video card earlier) it means the PSU probably isn't the culprit after all. Must have a short in the card. That IS what you touched after all. On the fans turning on, did they just spin up or what? That is a little unusual, unless you just meant that the system itself turned on (sometimes they default to turning on automatically when power is restored, which is REALLY annoying, and bad for your harddrives when the power blinks if you don't have a UPS.)

Anyway, I'm wondering if you just keep accidentally going into power saving mode. The PSU may elect to shut off it's own fan or something. Power saving mode shuts of nearly everything, but, case fans do usually keep running. Except for the highest level of power saving, which shuts off even the processor, sending power to nothing but the memory.

That said, any "SMART mode" settings that could have been changed in the first place would probably be in your bios, so start looking through there for settings.

Guess after checking all this stuff, there's not much else you can do but RMA that card and maybe call shuttle's tech support.
 
Nazo said:
Guess after checking all this stuff, there's not much else you can do but RMA that card and maybe call shuttle's tech support.
Click to expand...

Looks like that's going to be the case.

And about the fans spinning up, that's not the case... They actually are on full blast until I hit the switch on the back so I think something with the mobo mighta just got messed up. I need to get the ball rolling on this soon... Looks like I'll be making some phone calls tomorrow.

Thanks again for the help, I'll let you know how it goes.

Oh also, the connector honestly isn't 20-pin it looked like it was maybe 10 or 12 and there's another 4 pin connector closer to the processor which I know is standard. The thing is these shuttle systems are made to be upgraded.... You can't just buy a new motherboard from shuttle, you have to buy the complete package since each motherboard is custom tailored to fit into that specific case.
 
Weird. It's not two connectors is it? There is an old style where it had two little connectors, which was phased out a long time ago (my P3 board does have one of these plugs for a secondary power or something, but, the reason I don't try it out to see what happens is because my PSU lacks the plugs and I lack the courage to see what would happen as it may be... permanent...)

Anyway, good luck. All I can say is if they chose to screw up the powering standards, well, I don't want to even think about all that can mean for a system when it comes to, oh, say static electricity for example...

I will say one thing else though. For the love of god don't ever buy a shuttle again (or any other system designed to not be upgraded, only completely swapped out.) They don't deserve your business if they would intentionally spend that much to get systems designed just so that their users have to buy whole new system when all they wanted to do was swap out the PSU to something more reliable or something.
 
Nazo said:
I will say one thing else though. For the love of god don't ever buy a shuttle again (or any other system designed to not be upgraded, only completely swapped out.) They don't deserve your business if they would intentionally spend that much to get systems designed just so that their users have to buy whole new system when all they wanted to do was swap out the PSU to something more reliable or something.
Click to expand...

Yeah but it's worth it to me to have a sexy case that's nice and small.

If any company out there made some decent looking cases then I would be all over that but theyre all so damn ugly. :mad: That is unless you spend $200+ on a CM or LL which wouldn't save you any money anyways. So it's really what matters more and the size difference would be the kicker for me. Plus I still think the Shuttles are sexier...
 
Don't buy pre-built then. If you look on newegg alone there's a selection of cases that'd probably satisfy you. That's assuming you didn't bother to look anywhere else.

EDIT: And, no, you don't have to spend $100+ for the ultra-expensive brands for something that looks pretty decent. Part of the cost isn't the looks but the fact that they are just plain better designed than nearly anything else out there for better airflow and even little things such as how your drives go in, etc.
 
Nope, I dont like anything on NewEgg... I've looked everywhere and spent endless nights trying to find a case that satisfies my needs but I couldn't find one until I saw these Shuttles... That's why I bought one and will continue to depending on my experience with their customer service and my machines reliability. And trust me I didn't just buy this system cuz I thought it was sexy I read reviews for days and read about its problems in forums until I thought that it was a good purchase, just as I would do for any purchase I make.
 
nazo said:
EDIT: And, no, you don't have to spend $100+ for the ultra-expensive brands for something that looks pretty decent.
Click to expand...

Difference in opinion then on what looks pretty decent.

edit: and I said 200+, not 100+
 
All that is all well and good, but, you can get reliability if you pick reliable parts. Broken standards designed to force you to buy whole new systems from them when you want to upgrade do not qualify as good service in MY book however... IMO, it's a more "reliable" setup when, if something does go wrong, you aren't completely stuck like this.

Anyway, what exactly ARE you looking for in a case. What's wrong with, for example, something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144161 Personally, I'll never understand the whole micro-atx "let's make the computer look like a pretty little box instead of a computer" thing, so it's hard for me to pick out such a case, but, I'd maybe aim for something kind of like that if I were doing such a thing.

And I said $100 on purpose. You shouldn't have to even go over $100 for a decent case. $200 is just outrageous IMO, and I don't care if the lian li people flame me or not.
 
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