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Help Building a Server

S

SSmith

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
159
Hi everybody. I have no experience in this regards, but my office is moving, and the IT guy is quoting us an exorbitant fee to build a server for us. Here are the basic things we need to do in the office.

1) Handle roughly 4 printers so everyone in the office can print off any printer
2) Connect 10 computers to a LAN and the internet (through a router)
3) Backup those 10 computers every night to prevent data loss.
4) Other servery things.

What sort of cost should this be running? Could I build this myself for cheaper, and if so, what should I include? Are we talking SCSI HDDs for backups, or tape drives? Any help you guys could give me would be appreciated... I'm looking for a cost estimate with some example system specs.

I figure we wouldn't be putting too much demand on this thing, 10 computers networked together doesn't sound like a huge workload for a server to me, but then again, I admittedly know next to nothing about servers. Thanks in advance!
 
I would not build an office server, I would buy one in.
Ask yourself how much downtime can you afford.
I would look at something like a Dell with 24 hour support.

Luck.......... :D
 
Or the Proliants, since they've been kicking Dell's ass for a good while now. But, like the guy said above me....if this is for an office environment....you want an OEM with a support contract. HP's been top rated in that department as well for 2 years now. If this was for your house, I would say build one.
 
Tigerbiten said:
I would not build an office server, I would buy one in.
Ask yourself how much downtime can you afford.
I would look at something like a Dell with 24 hour support.

Luck.......... :D
Click to expand...
agree, if something goes down its your fault, if you have a dell, its theirs and they can fix it their damn selves :p
 
Not too much, I mean, actualy working data doesn't really go over a gig per computer I would imagine. How about those pre-built machines then, what should I be shelling out for one of those? I was quoted 4 grand for the server, but I can't see needing a 3,000 server for 10 workstations! Hell, 2 of those are secretaries, and one receptionist.... really only 7 WORKING computers...
 
How important is data security/reliability? Drive access performance? Are all the files going to be stored on the server? How powerful are your workstations?

I imagine you need a lot of stability because of the nightly backups. I would def recommend a prebuilt server, as they aren't much more expensive, but the support is meager at best, considering it's all outsourced these days.
And you shouldn't just consider the amount of space you use now as much as how much do you think your space consumption will grow over the next year, and how expandable your solution needs to be as a result. How many new employees to you expect to support etc. I wouldn't say $3000 is a terrible price, depending on what it includes, especially if that includes something for backup (we use nightly full DAT backups), software alone for that is ridiculously expensive.

I would recommend priority wise:
Raid-5 for reliability/speed
Lots of Memory (for printing, file serving)
Processor speed (you aren't doing much server side aside from print queues and file serving, backups are done during downtime so compression isn't that big of a drain)



Could you give more specifics on your exact needs?
 
Well, basically, there's extensive database work done here, and if more than a few days worth of information was lost... well, there would be some hell to pay. I'm not too sure how these things work, but I thought if you made a backup for Day 1, then another backup on Day 2, your backup for Day 3 could get written over Day 1, then day 4 could get written over day 2, so always have at least 2 separate backups no more than 2 days behind your current information.

The individual workstations range from P3 550s to P4 2.4s. We're not developing software or using autocad, mostly database-work and word-processing. We've also got an IT/Network guy full-time employed... and I'm fairly handy myself. Well, I post here, so... I just don't bother too much with networking. However, the guy who were going to contract the move out to seems to want to charge us an arm and a leg to re-network... and I just plain can't afford his prices! I mean, I can connect all the computers myself... the IT guy can run the server and such...

I guess I'm mostly worried about reliable data backups. I've got a P2 kicking around somewhere I can set up as a print server if I need to...
 
If you're doing a lot of database work then definitely you're going to want a good server, something on the order of 2 gigs of ram and dual procs. HDD space as you need it.

I would say don't push backups from the workstations to tape, have users store valuable information on user or other (ie dept) shares and back them up off the server. IMHO relying on users to leave computers on for backups is not so hot.

I use backup exec from veritas and a DLT drive (well 2 actually, you would be cautious too if you've been through the same) and yes you can do backups like that. Typically, if your backups are small, you can put day 1 on tape 1, day 2 on tape 2, then repeat, or you can do incremental backups daily and full backups weekly if your db gets too big.

You don't need anything hefty for a printserver, just a decent amount of ram, as long as you aren't printing out manuals of stuff. I'm still curious what the $3000 includes?

If you're moving, do you need to lay down a new infrastructure, or is there an existing one? If you're paying an IT full time, I'm sure he can do the plugging/setup in if needed. Between the two of you, 10 workstations can be easily relocated in an evening/weekend.

-Mike

[edit] It also depends a great deal on software. Windows solutions, with exchange and such can increase prices greatly. If you already have these licenses, you can save a lot of money (MSSQL/WIN2k Server/Exchange etc) Whereas you can save a huge amount of money if you went with *nix servers if your IT guy can swing that way. But I would definitely ask about licensing, no need to have 2 licenses of everything and only 10 workstations. [/edit]
 
Our company just got a Proliant DL580 Xeon 2.8GHz machine a couple months ago. W/1 36GB Ultra 320 SCSI 10,000k drive for the OS and two 160GBish Ultra 320SCSI 10k drives in RAID 1 for storage.

Redundant PSU's, hot swappable fans just to name a few of it's features. You should get something from Compaq/HP or even Dell. Although I've worked with HP for years and they are great about sending out techs and providing parts for their servers or workstations should something go wrong.
 
The company I worked for used tons of compaq/HP DL360s, Sun servers and some Dell ones. I would probably recommend going the HP or Dell route as well. Sun is probably not really what you're looking for.
 
Basically, ask yourself how much downtime you can afford. You have to do a cost-benefit analysis and that will tell you which way to go:

1. How much downtime/data loss can you live with?
If you have a dual PSU hot swapable system, that's great, but if your PSU in a single PSU system dies, can you live with a couple of hours downtime and (up to)a day's data loss? How much money will that downtime and data loss cost you in wages(people sitting around doing nothing while the system is repaired), pissed off customers, etc?

2. What kind of hardware loss can you live with?
In a redundant PSU system, if a PSU fails, how likely is the whole system to fry, vs the other PSU taking up the slack and the system not being fried? Think about replacement cost for your mobo/cpu/drives vs the cost of a more reliable system. Weigh that against the price difference between a DIY or prebuilt server vs the solution this guy is asking for. What kind of support is he offering? What kind of warranty? If it is good support/warranty, do you really need it, or is your in-house tech team enough?

Data storage:

Basically, if you are only storing 10gb of data, then you might consider a simple raid array (3 disk raid 5 or even a SATA raid 1) for your day to day needs and a simple tape/removable HD backup system for nightly backups/offsite backups. I mean, if you are balking at the cost of $4,000, then one day's worth of data can't be all that valuable to you. A halfway decent raid and 3 cheap 40 gig IDE/SATA drives in removable cages may be just what the doctor ordered. Just make sure that one of the removable drives goes home with you every night.

Personally, I would bite the bullet and get a good server, but if you can live with a day of downtime and a day's data loss if your system fries, then a DIY or prebuilt OEM server would be a livable alternative as long as you are diligent about backups and you have a HUMAN backup protocol in place(always take a drive home, always swap your drives when you come into the office in the morning, or have your office manager do it).

Rock solid & expensive vs probably good enough and slightly cheaper....those are your choices. You could probably do it for $2500, but how will you sleep at night?
 
:clap: Also, very important: Not stopping a backup while raid is rebuilding locks a rebuild, corrupts the new drive and the backups at the same time.
:D

The support is basically, can/will your IT guy live at the office for the day it takes to get things running or will you pay upfront to outsource it?

-Mike
 
Well, you guys have given me a lot to think about, and I think I'm ready to bite the bullet and lay down the expense for a good server. Its just kinda hard, because the business' profits is my income, so I'm basically paying however much out of MY pocket to buy it, heh.

Oh well.

Thanks again!
 
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