[HELP] 4 workstations/1 server build

[junglicious]

Hi,

I am going to be building 4 workstations and one Windows Server 2008. The workstations will run a program called "Furniture Wizard" (inventory/invoice) that does not require much hardware. However I would like these workstation to last 7+ years and able to use other programs we decide to install later. I would also like it to run smooth and fast with no lag or down time. Below is a list I created for the workstations.

The server I don't know what parts I need or should use. Is Windows Server 2008 hard to setup and what hardware is recommend for a server computer? Again I want it to last and run smooth with no down time. I will probably have 3 or more printers hooked up to the network. I was also thinking of using a 128GB SSD drive for the server's OS and have 2-4TB of storage.

Open to recommendations and suggestion. Need this done by the end of April.

Thanks

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing?
Web, data entry (Furniture Wizard), ms office, email

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Under $1,000 per workstation. I don't know how much a server build would cost.

3) Where do you live?
Fresno, CA. No good B&M store at all.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Motherboard, case, PSU, CPU, ram, monitor, keyboard, mouse, os win7 pro x64, hard drive, dvd-r. As for video I was hopping I could just use the iGPU on the CPU hence why I choose an iSeries CPU.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
all new parts

6) Will you be overclocking?
no

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
19"

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Before the end of April.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.
none of that is needed but don't mind having.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
win7 pro x64


Workstation hardware list:
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Model #:Three Hundred
$69.95

GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Model #:GA-P67A-UD3-B3
$134.99

CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible ...
Model #:CMPSU-650TX
$119.99

Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52400
Model #:BX80623I52400
$189.99

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
Model #:F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
$49.99

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Model #:WD5000AAKS
$49.99

Rosewill RK-7300 Black USB Super Slim Unique Curved Design Multimedia Full-size Keyboard
Model #:RK-7300
$14.99

Hanns·G HW-191APB Black 19" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor
Model #:HW191APB
$129.99

Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical - OEM
Model #66-00066S
$15.99

LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS-324-98B
Model #:iHAS-324-98B
$22.99

 

[TheSpoon]

What's the point of putting an SSD in the server? It'll help boot times, but isn't a server typically always on? If it's not a disk-bound server, the SSD isn't going to make it serve any faster.

Also why P67 for non-overclockable CPU?

 

[junglicious]

What's the point of putting an SSD in the server? It'll help boot times, but isn't a server typically always on? If it's not a disk-bound server, the SSD isn't going to make it serve any faster.

Also why P67 for non-overclockable CPU?

The SSD I thought would be less heat, less power consumption, and smaller failure rate. I didn't look much but I think the P67 board was one of the cheaper boards for that CPU.

 

[bastage]

Case is not the best choice just because its bulky & lackluster (and not worth the cost), CPU wise I Would look at one of the SB i3's & a h67 board (p67 has no video). If you have a microcenter nearby there i3/msi board combo would be a hell of a start..

Also though in order to help a little better please answer the sticky from the top of the forum.

 

[junglicious]

Case is not the best choice just because its bulky & lackluster (and not worth the cost), CPU wise I Would look at one of the SB i3's & a h67 board (p67 has no video). If you have a microcenter nearby there i3/msi board combo would be a hell of a start..

Also though in order to help a little better please answer the sticky from the top of the forum.

I updated the thread. You said that's not a good case but you didn't name any other case that would be of better use. As for the video, I was hopping I could use the iGPU on the CPU. I would get the deal if there was a mirco center near by.

 

[bastage]

I updated the thread. You said that's not a good case but you didn't name any other case that would be of better use. As for the video, I was hopping I could use the iGPU on the CPU. I would get the deal if there was a mirco center near by.

the p67 cant utilize the igp. Thats why I said to use an h67. For that matter the cheaper h61 boards should work fine for you as well given that they are workstations. And the Antec 300 is a good case dont get me wrong. its just not a 60+ dollar case. It was 2 or years ago, but now its just really not..


Edit: also you said you want to have the systems last 7 years.. How bout planning for about half the time & half the budget? Just too much that will change & with current tech there will be alot of overkill that will likely be outclassed by low end components in 3 or 4 years.

 

[Dangman]

The server I don't know what parts I need or should use. Is Windows Server 2008 hard to setup and what hardware is recommend for a server computer? Again I want it to last and run smooth with no down time. I will probably have 3 or more printers hooked up to the network. I was also thinking of using a 128GB SSD drive for the server's OS and have 2-4TB of storage.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Under $1,000 per workstation. I don't know how much a server build would cost.

For the server build, I recommend making a new thread for it in either the Networking & Security subforum or the Data Storage subforum. It needs it's own seperate thread as it's an entirely different can of worms.

3) Where do you live?
Fresno, CA. No good B&M store at all.

Since you live in California, buy as much of your parts as possible from Amazon.com as Amazon.com does not charge tax to CA residents unlike Newegg which does.

CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible ...
Model #:CMPSU-650TX
$119.99

$120 is a ripoff considering that PSU is $90 regularly. However even at $90, that Corsair isn't that good of a choice considering that you can get a larger and slightly better PSU for the same price:
$90 - Antec Truepower New TP-750 750W PSU

With that said, you do not need a 650W or 750W PSU for this kind of setup. You'll be fine with this PSU:
$43 - Antec Earthwatts Green EA380D 380W PSU

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
Model #:F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
$49.99

Yeah you're not gonna notice a difference between DDR3 1333 and DDR3 1600 for any real world usage scenarios:
$40 - Patriot PSD34G13332 2GB DDR3 1333 RAM

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Model #:WD5000AAKS
$49.99

From Amazon.com, you can get a slightly faster drive and with twice as much space for $10 more:
$65 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

The SSD I thought would be less heat, less power consumption, and smaller failure rate.

SSDs would give off less heat and less power consumption but the failure rate is about the same with hard drives.

I updated the thread. You said that's not a good case but you didn't name any other case that would be of better use.

I recommend these cases:
$40 - Thermaltake V3 Black Edition VL80001W2Z ATX Case
$60 - Cooler Master Gladiator 600 RC-600-KKN1-GP ATX Case

As for the video, I was hopping I could use the iGPU on the CPU.

As bastage pointed out, you need to use a motherboard with the H67 or H61 chipset in order to use the onboard video. No P67 motherboard will allow you to use the intergrated GPU. So go for a MSI, Asus, or Gigabyte made H67 motherboard.

 

[junglicious]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will revise the build.

 

[tonytnnt]

You're overpaying on that monitor. You can find 19" for $20+ less, and 23" for $10 to $20 more. Go cheap. Get a Core i3 2100 and an H61 board. Get 2 to 4 GB of RAM, and a cheap, reliable disk drive as you shouldn't use more than 100 gigs anyways, unless this is a truely giant program. Get an energy efficient, reliable, and QUIET PSU. Your employees aren't going to want to listen to a leaf blower while working for 8 hours a day. You should be able to make each of these for about $500 or $600 and spend the rest on repairs and eventual replacement 4 to 5 years down the line.

 

[junglicious]

Here is my new revised list. I am down to $600 shipped per workstation. Inputs welcome. All from Amazon.com.

Thanks


Logitech PS/2 Optical Wheel Mouse
$7.54

Lite-On LightScribe 24X SATA DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive IHAS424-98 - Retail (Black)
$22.99

Antec EA-430D Power Supply EA-430D
$44.99

Crucial CT2CP25664BA1339 4GB 2GBx2 240-pin PC3-10600 DIMM DDR3 Memory KIT
$44.99

Samsung 1 TB Spinpoint 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.5 inch Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive HD103SJ
$60.29

MSI H61M-E23 (B3) Intel H61 Micro ATX DDR3 1333 Motherboards
$69.99

ASUS VW193DR - 19-Inch Wide LCD Monitor
$103.24

Cooler Master Elite 360 RC-360-KKN1-GP ATX Mid Tower/Desktop Case (Black)
$39.99

Core I3-2100 Processor
$129.99

KeyBoard ROSEWILL RK-7300 USB RETAIL
$14.99

 

[Dangman]

Looks good to me. Though out of curiosity, why not just get a prebuilt for all those workstations?

In any case, now you have to concentrate on the server.

 

[junglicious]

Looks good to me. Though out of curiosity, why not just get a prebuilt for all those workstations?

In any case, now you have to concentrate on the server.

I looked into dell but I didn't see any configurations that I wanted and the price was more. I guess I can recheck since I have the workstations build finish for now and compare more with dell.

 

[lightp2]

There are actually two different thinkings. Both are valid with their respective considerations.

A. By the time you really need the much better performance stuff, next generation will be cheaper any way so you might as well spend for next upgrade by doing cheaper setup now.

This is JIT " Just In Time" Compiler

B. Because you mention 7+ years, while cheaper stuffs can be found with large percentage possibility down the road, the ACTUAL "human labor" involved in getting everything done to perfection is however not free. Think about it, once operation is running, so many things depend on them available and operable workflow. In case you change in the middle of the way, service disruption, maybe original person no longer here and somebody has to study how to get the software done and other dependency done. If you do not know, maybe software vendor wants a new setup fee.

In software industry, another thing is the Legacy software support versus continuously updating to new software version. Legacy binary support versus FOSS "compile for the new environment anyway".

For example, say you deploy XP two years back to avoid Vista, and 3 years later you are upgrading to new PC which probably runs newer version of Windows. But the software may not run under new version as MS continuously reinvent to meet new crowd and drop legacy support (this is potential looking at the new app-store thing on the rage)

A long explanation I admit. Generally, if the environment is "RIGID", Method 2 is an option, else the JIT-method is generally the current in-thing for IT industry.

Finally, assembly needs effort. If you are doing this freely for your company, the service/warranty then will need to be addressed by you instead of calling OEM.

 

[tonytnnt]

There are actually two different thinkings. Both are valid with their respective considerations.

A. By the time you really need the much better performance stuff, next generation will be cheaper any way so you might as well spend for next upgrade by doing cheaper setup now.

This is JIT " Just In Time" Compiler

B. Because you mention 7+ years, while cheaper stuffs can be found with large percentage possibility down the road, the ACTUAL "human labor" involved in getting everything done to perfection is however not free. Think about it, once operation is running, so many things depend on them available and operable workflow. In case you change in the middle of the way, service disruption, maybe original person no longer here and somebody has to study how to get the software done and other dependency done. If you do not know, maybe software vendor wants a new setup fee.

In software industry, another thing is the Legacy software support versus continuously updating to new software version. Legacy binary support versus FOSS "compile for the new environment anyway".

For example, say you deploy XP two years back to avoid Vista, and 3 years later you are upgrading to new PC which probably runs newer version of Windows. But the software may not run under new version as MS continuously reinvent to meet new crowd and drop legacy support (this is potential looking at the new app-store thing on the rage)

A long explanation I admit. Generally, if the environment is "RIGID", Method 2 is an option, else the JIT-method is generally the current in-thing for IT industry.

Finally, assembly needs effort. If you are doing this freely for your company, the service/warranty then will need to be addressed by you instead of calling OEM.

I second this. I generally like the JIT solution, but there are a lot of good points in lightp2's post. Do you have the time/budget to support these workstations after they go live? What about when you do your upgrade? How much will that downtime affect operations? How much time will it take to assemble each of the workstations + the server, install the software, etc? Are you getting paid for that time?

Thinking about it more, I would probably go with a prebuilt. Check out this Dell Vostro 460 for $530. It has a Core i3-2100 but only 1 GB of RAM (you can upgrade it yourself using the $45 kit off Amazon or buy another 2GB of RAM and call it good.) It also has 1 year of next business day service. If you get 4 of these plus a server from Dell, you could probably get some kind of deal. I'm not sure as I didn't talk to one of their sales reps. HP and Lenovo are probably similar.

That being said, I don't see any issues with your proposed build. You could save $16 by getting a WD 500GB drive instead of 1TB. You can save $5 bucks getting a Logitech keyboard+mouse combo. Another $5 getting a Corsair 430W. You could save another $30 before taxes on a combo deal on Newegg for the Core i3-2100 with an ECS motherboard (I like that MSI more though.) I feel like i'm splitting hairs though because your current build will work out well.

 

[wtourist]

Might want to include a spare workstation build to swap with problems for breathing time or technical access, though there are other options (laptops or small form factor spares, etc). Plan on a couple of spare cases if you want all to continue to match or appearance counts (replacing a damaged case in a hurry is a pain. Or a switch. Or finding a cover) . and a spare "adaquate" power supply.
You may want to budget a dozen or so Yate Loon case fans.
Plan if possible to use any "refurbished " returned HDD in raid array and adding a new, so there's a policy in place and aging equipment is delt with. if possible.
yeah, compulsive.

 

[junglicious]

I will take everything into consideration.

As for time building and installing software I don't see the workstation as a problem, the server maybe. If I don't run into any problems with defective parts I can have all four system build in one day (8hrs). Since all the parts are the same, once I have the wire management layout figure the other 3 will be simple. The OS and programs can be install on all four computers simultaneously. The main program is Furniture Wizard and little programs like anti-virus etc. Even if I do go the Dell route I would still need to setup the network, server, and the Furniture Wizard program. If something were to fail with Dell I would have to go through the warranty process like any other product I buy from somewhere else. They might even require me to send the computer back which will take longer. I don't use Dell's tech help.

As for being paid for this, its not an issue. If everything is setup right and parts don't go out on me left and right (they shouldn't) I don't see an issue having this maintain. We did the Dell route 7 years ago and I think only one computer went out, out of 7 workstation and 1 server. However we could use new workstations and a new server as well because they are running slow. If this was a bigger scale job with more computers I would do the Dell route. I like knowing what goes into my computers and if something were to happen I would know how to take care of it. I do enjoy working with my hands and DIY.

Thanks

BTW - If for some reason i3 iGPU is not signification to run the workstations smoothly, will adding a cheap video card deplete the purpose of this build? How much would a video card cost that would work with this kind of build?

 

[Dangman]

BTW - If for some reason i3 iGPU is not signification to run the workstations smoothly, will adding a cheap video card deplete the purpose of this build? How much would a video card cost that would work with this kind of build?

No. $40 to $50.

 

[junglicious]

Other component I will need some suggestion on is a wireless router, wireless card, wireless printers (at least one "all in one" and one laser), and a backup power supply for the server.

Thanks

 

[Dangman]

Other component I will need some suggestion on is a wireless router, wireless card, wireless printers (at least one "all in one" and one laser), and a backup power supply for the server.

Thanks

Considering that this is for a business, I recommend that you ask and search for recomendations for business grade routers and NICs over in the Networking & Security subforum. With that said, there's a thread in that subforum showing recommended consumer grade routers. Might be helpful if you can't get any help there.

As for backup power supply, I really can't recommend a UPS at all due to the following reason:
1) I have no idea what hardware your server has. The hardware in the server uses a certain amount of power and therefore dictates which UPS to buy.
2) How long of an uptime you want as in conjuction with reason #1, that's also gonna dictate which UPS you should use.

So find out what your server hardware is and then we'll start talking UPSes.

 

[tonytnnt]

Other component I will need some suggestion on is a wireless router, wireless card, wireless printers (at least one "all in one" and one laser), and a backup power supply for the server.

Thanks

I have no idea about your networking needs, and it would be better to post that question in the networking forum, but assuming you have four to 15 computers in a small business and need wireless, something like a Cisco 861 with 802.11n might do the trick if it's a small area (the wireless can only reach so far.) It really depends on what kind of network management you need. For the printers, unless you're looking at printing very few pages per month or need photo quality, laser is the way to go. Do not pass inkjet. Go directly to laser.

For a wireless card, it depends on what kind of wireless security you use. If you juse use normal WPA2-AES then just about any well rated card should work. If you want to use the Cisco extensions then I think you might be more limited. Ask in the networking forum for more details.