Heatsinks on router chips increase lifetime -- proof?

Cerulean

Cerulean

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So someone at another forum asked me this (I have a DGL-4100):
Where's the proof of that? I've had the same D-Link router since 2003, and it works brilliantly. Considering I paid about GBP £100 for it, and it's been working near enough constantly for 7 years (often taking high strain) I think the need to extend the life of the router is kinda unnecessary.
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How would a reply as such work? (I wrote it, but I would like to hear for you guys.)
The fact that any time heat is dissipated from a heat source you lower its operating temperature, resulting in less wear and tear over time.
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They're designed to withstand the heat. Smart thing to do is...don't cover the thing up with crap, let it breath. And don't put it on top of something like a giant subwoofer (I've seen that a couple of times, and it locked up their router frequently..giant magnet)

I can see doing a heatsink if someone runs a rig that supports 3rd party firmware that allows you to overclock the crap out of them, as most of us know overclocking raises heat on the CPU...but as some of us know, overclocking a router really doesn't gain you much either...but frequent lockups...lol.
 
The old Linksys WRT-54G really benefited stability-wise from a heatsink being placed on the processor.

I threw a heatsink fan (cheapie combo I picked up at CompUSA that just stuck on with thermal tape). Crashes went from once every 3-6 months to none AT ALL in the past 3 years.

EDIT: As for increasing the lifetime of a chip? That is more questionable.
 
In theory, you're right.

But like the guy is asking for, there really isnt any proof.
 
jadams said:
But like the guy is asking for, there really isnt any proof.
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Exactly...because, say the lockups that happen every 3-6 months...who is to prove it's directly related to heat? Maybe they had a power blip, or maybe traffic got too strong during that time and it locked up. Maybe...at the same time they stuck on a heat think and think they fixed it...they also updated the firmware to a more stable version, or got a better surge strip or UPS, or...or.....the moon and Saturn lined up just right that year!

I've run dozens of stinkys wrt routers...with firmware that allowed cranking up the output power a bit, they've been run hard...yes they get warm, but so does my monitor..does that mean I should put heat sinks on my 2x monitors that I'm looking at right now?
 
WICKED, i can prove this, how many of you have seen them die, because they are laying on the floor ? Have lots of you opened up a decent higher end router to see that they have a heat sink on the chip ? I have, i've also taken some of those low end one's and a few small chipset heat sinks and thermal glued them to the chip in side, guess what, after 2 years the router is still working, and the brother to it ( same model and make ) is dead. WHY because they over heat from passing to much traffic.

It wont hurt to put a heat sinks or piece of copper (thick) foil with thermal glue on top of the cpu chip inside the router, if any thing it will keep the chip cooler possibly run faster.

Heat kills electronics we all know this, so why not do what the manufacturer didn't do :)

Pulling the heat away from any integrated chip wether it be a cpu or a transistor is always the best way.

Jase
 
dashpuppy said:
WICKED, i can prove this, how many of you have seen them die, because they are laying on the floor ? Have lots of you opened up a decent higher end router to see that they have a heat sink on the chip ? I have, i've also taken some of those low end one's and a few small chipset heat sinks and thermal glued them to the chip in side, guess what, after 2 years the router is still working, and the brother to it ( same model and make ) is dead. WHY because they over heat from passing to much traffic.

It wont hurt to put a heat sinks or piece of copper (thick) foil with thermal glue on top of the cpu chip inside the router, if any thing it will keep the chip cooler possibly run faster.

Heat kills electronics we all know this, so why not do what the manufacturer didn't do :)

Pulling the heat away from any integrated chip wether it be a cpu or a transistor is always the best way.

Jase
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I've seen them die...from poor surge protection and poor electrical power..99% of the time zapped wall warts. Pretty much 100% zero problems in most of my installs that are plugged into UPS units like the little APC 350 models I do for most of my broadband setups. This is based on hundreds and hundreds of installs.

Have seen them die from laying on the floor? No..not from laying on the floor, usually from electrical problems...refer to above.

Have I opened up decent routers...like business grade models..and seen their heat sinks? Yes..many, Sonicwalls, Junipers, Ciscos, etc. I do realize though..that those units often have much faster processors than wimpy home grade models. Larger more powerful faster processors = more heat.

The test of 2 routers...1x heatsinked and still working, 1x not and dead....not really enough of a test. I've used many of them in high load situations without the heat sinks (actually all of them, I've never modded one)...absolutely problem free when setup on a UPS..which in my experience based on high numbers...these el cheapo home grade routers are built with cheap components that are sensitive to electrical conditions and croak easily from brown outs and little spikes. Because due to seeing high numbers of them last for years and years when used on UPS units...those tell the story for me.
 
Well, isn't it possible that a chip that doesn't generate enough heat for it to be worthwhile or cost effective to put a heatsink over it could actually work against the intended purpose by sort of being an insulator?

This is an interesting thread though.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I've seen them die...from poor surge protection and poor electrical power..99% of the time zapped wall warts. Pretty much 100% zero problems in most of my installs that are plugged into UPS units like the little APC 350 models I do for most of my broadband setups. This is based on hundreds and hundreds of installs.

Have seen them die from laying on the floor? No..not from laying on the floor, usually from electrical problems...refer to above.

Have I opened up decent routers...like business grade models..and seen their heat sinks? Yes..many, Sonicwalls, Junipers, Ciscos, etc. I do realize though..that those units often have much faster processors than wimpy home grade models. Larger more powerful faster processors = more heat.

The test of 2 routers...1x heatsinked and still working, 1x not and dead....not really enough of a test. I've used many of them in high load situations without the heat sinks (actually all of them, I've never modded one)...absolutely problem free when setup on a UPS..which in my experience based on high numbers...these el cheapo home grade routers are built with cheap components that are sensitive to electrical conditions and croak easily from brown outs and little spikes. Because due to seeing high numbers of them last for years and years when used on UPS units...those tell the story for me.
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I agree with you 100% on the power thing, all my stuff is plugged into a ups, DAM for 100$ for a apc1500, why not.

What im really trying to say, is it won't hurt it at all if any thing it will help the product last longer if you can remove the heat from the cpu.

For me, iim a tinker toy guy, love doing that stuff, on the side note, im very good with electronics, as i build amplifiers, and try to repair almost everything i bring home from the junk bin from work :) have it be audio or video equipment or computer equipment :)

HELL i just got a free 10/100 24 port intel switch yesterday, heck if im going to use it.

Jase
 
Cerulean said:
Well, isn't it possible that a chip that doesn't generate enough heat for it to be worthwhile or cost effective to put a heatsink over it could actually work against the intended purpose by sort of being an insulator?

This is an interesting thread though.
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Excellent point. Why spend extra money to increase the time between sales due to out-of-warranty failure.
 
RavenD said:
Excellent point. Why spend extra money to increase the time between sales due to out-of-warranty failure.
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why would you want to continue to keep buying routers year after year after year, why not spend the extra $0.25 to put a simple heat sink on the chip to make it last longer.
 
I've had a relatively cheap Netgear router for years and never had an issue with it, but it's plugged into a good UPS along with the phone line(DSL), modem, PC, monitor. I also keep it in a good spot so it breathes. Oh and if you get a lightning strike close enough to your home a UPS isn't going to do shit for you. I've had plenty of clients who have had their equipment fried even when plugged into a UPS because of a close lightning strike. "But it was plugged into a UPS, what happened?" Safest thing to do if you live in an area with a lot of lightning strikes, unplug your shit from the wall during a storm. But in general a UPS is the way to go, especially for the line conditioning and obviously for the surge protection. A little dip here, a spike here, will cause lockups in some cases. A good UPS will level that out.

As for overclocking a router, lol, I wouldn't even waste my time. Some people might be into it but as long as the router works i'm happy. With that said i'm not against overclocking a CPU in my personal system. For clients, I keep everything stock, even if they ask me to overclock a new system I won't. My system has been overclocked for years and I never had a single lockup. I even installed Win 7 with it overclocked, no issues. As long as you know wtf you're doing in terms of cooling, volts, knowing the CPU's ceiling you'll be o.k..
 
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Not really worth over clocking a 40-80$ router, or any router for that fact.

HOWEVER, removing any amount of heat from the cpu chip is worth it.!
 
dunno if it means anytthing... ive had a wrt54gfor about 7 yearsnow.... still works fine havent done anything with it special... kept it in he open no stacking... actually had it mounted in a closet running 24/7 for 6 months atone point.
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dashpuppy said:
What im really trying to say, is it won't hurt it at all if any thing it will help the product last longer if you can remove the heat from the cpu.
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I think these are the keywords here, in which case he has a point. You may not see a clear advantage, but you certainly wont see a disadvantage? Worth the trouble? Thats a matter of opinion i suppose.
 
dashpuppy said:
why would you want to continue to keep buying routers year after year after year, why not spend the extra $0.25 to put a simple heat sink on the chip to make it last longer.
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Sure, but 90% of people who will have a router are computer illiterate and don't want to mess around with things they don't understand. Asking them to put in a heatsink on a router would be like asking them to pilot the space shuttle -- they wont know jack.

When faced in a situation like that, they would rather buy a new router than mess around with their old clunky one... Leading to more sales.

Let's face it, those kind of people are what that allow us to have a job. :p
 
Deluded said:
Sure, but 90% of people who will have a router are computer illiterate and don't want to mess around with things they don't understand. Asking them to put in a heatsink on a router would be like asking them to pilot the space shuttle -- they wont know jack.

When faced in a situation like that, they would rather buy a new router than mess around with their old clunky one... Leading to more sales.

Let's face it, those kind of people are what that allow us to have a job. :p
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Agree :)

Next few weeks i will collect some photos of how peope setup their routers, where they put them etc etc.

I had one lady that hated wires, so she put her wireless router under her couch, and then always complained that her wireless was slow and she always had to unplug it.

Another person put his out on his patio, and complained that it worked well out side but not inside, of his METAL house.! Then got mad because it rained one night really bad and blew water into the device.

I've seen some pretty stupid setups, and how people plug them in, plug it in, it works leave it alone, then wonder why they get a letter in the mail or a email stating their internet account is nearing their alloted bandwidth for the month. GEE WONDER WHY! Open wireless free wireless to people who want to download their movies lol.

I wasn't really saying people should do it, i was simply saying that the manufactures should put small heat sinks on them etc etc.

having the router elevated so i can get air in and out also helps, not putting it on the carpet like lots of people do.
 
dashpuppy said:
Agree :)

Next few weeks i will collect some photos of how peope setup their routers, where they put them etc etc.

I had one lady that hated wires, so she put her wireless router under her couch, and then always complained that her wireless was slow and she always had to unplug it.

Another person put his out on his patio, and complained that it worked well out side but not inside, of his METAL house.! Then got mad because it rained one night really bad and blew water into the device.

I've seen some pretty stupid setups, and how people plug them in, plug it in, it works leave it alone, then wonder why they get a letter in the mail or a email stating their internet account is nearing their alloted bandwidth for the month. GEE WONDER WHY! Open wireless free wireless to people who want to download their movies lol.

I wasn't really saying people should do it, i was simply saying that the manufactures should put small heat sinks on them etc etc.

having the router elevated so i can get air in and out also helps, not putting it on the carpet like lots of people do.
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Haha! Another point as to why manufacturers are not putting a $0.25 heatsink is because they want to shave cost. Sure, $0.25 is cheap, but when you're producing thousands of routers, that really adds up.
 
dashpuppy said:
why would you want to continue to keep buying routers year after year after year, why not spend the extra $0.25 to put a simple heat sink on the chip to make it last longer.
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You wouldn't. I meant it from the manufacturer's perspective. Why install the heatsink if it would cut the frequency of new router purchases? From the user's perspective, it makes perfect sense to do it IMO.
 
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