• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Heater core?

V

vodEVIL

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
358
Hi, I have chosen to get a heater core but I dunno if I should get a single or dual one. What ever way it goes im going to have to mod my case. I was thinking either the front where the hard drive cages go or threw the top, but what will I use to cover the top? Do the make grills that big? What do you guys think will be the easiest. I want to try to keep it inside the case just because I think those look so much better.
 
Those look pretty good.

I picked up a Ford Mustang 1991 model from Autozone for $17 and about $10 of materials from a local hardware shop to make a shroud. It's big enough to fit a single 120mm fan or two 92mm fans.
 
CrimandEvil said:
Those look pretty good.

I picked up a Ford Mustang 1991 model from Autozone for $17 and about $10 of materials from a local hardware shop to make a shroud. It's big enough to fit a single 120mm fan or two 92mm fans.
Click to expand...

damn, that sounds familiar ;) i did the exact same thing, save i got a 90 model for a truck of some sorts... same price tho ;)
 
77 Chevelle heatercore here. Two 120mms fit very nicely and building a shroud isn't very hard for this core.
 
use the biggest you have room for. bigger rad+more fans=better cooling.

miro
 
CrimandEvil said:
Yeah, a dual core would be the way to go for better cooling.
Click to expand...

Alright, thanks. I figured that but how much more of a performance will it be?
 
vodEVIL said:
Alright, thanks. I figured that but how much more of a performance will it be?
Click to expand...

that one is hard to narrow down to a reasonable answer - it will depend on the pump, the blocks in the loop, the fans used (bigtime) and other factors. If the pump can hack it, the cooling of a dual 120 core should be substantially better than a single 120 core.

you need to shroud the core so the fan will be 1" - 2" from the surface of the heatercore. that will get rid of the deadspots under the fans and help funnel air through the core.

if you take some time in building it a nicely modded heatercore can look as good as it performs:
core without the shroud:
2blkhc2.jpg

shrouded:
hcwshroudfans1.jpg

fully enclosed version (it has an internal venturi shroud :) ):
gallarszd2.jpg
 
Yeah, what he said. :D If you choice good, quality parts and don't use excessive amounts of tubing and such then you can get some good numbers.
 
I know this is going to sound stupid but here goes...

Anyone ever consider a 3 core crossflow automotive radiator with a full sized room fan attached to the shroud (yeah it would be BIG) You could even hook up the automatic trans fluid circuit to a separate cooling circuit to improve cooling,,, Yeah the thing would be big and ugly but what about the performance?? I'd recommend a TransAm 77 thru 79 with the 6.6 L s/b engine - these needed major cooling. Tell em you got a auto transmission and you'll get the transfluid circuit too - the 3 core crossflows worked great in my old musclecar....
 
I've seen a few tri fan rads before, they are large. :eek:
You can also get ones the size of your case side panel too.
 
weapon-- said:
that one is hard to narrow down to a reasonable answer - it will depend on the pump, the blocks in the loop, the fans used (bigtime) and other factors. If the pump can hack it, the cooling of a dual 120 core should be substantially better than a single 120 core.

you need to shroud the core so the fan will be 1" - 2" from the surface of the heatercore. that will get rid of the deadspots under the fans and help funnel air through the core.

if you take some time in building it a nicely modded heatercore can look as good as it performs:
core without the shroud:
2blkhc2.jpg

shrouded:
hcwshroudfans1.jpg

fully enclosed version (it has an internal venturi shroud :) ):
gallarszd2.jpg
Click to expand...

wow that shroud looks great did you build it yourself?
 
Bigger is not always better, I tried to hook up an old car radiator to an Eheim 1250 and could barely get 2 gpm though it, the resistance was huge. Compare that to 3 gpm though the 77 Boneville core.
 
thewhiteguy said:
:eek: Is that out of a bus or something :D
Click to expand...

nope - I spot-brazed and then seam-soldered two '77 b'ville cores together after removing the top tank of one and the bottom tank of the other and lining up the flow channels.
don't try that one at home - it is royal PITA material.

thelostrican said:
wow that shroud looks great did you build it yourself?
Click to expand...
thanks. yeah, I built all of those...these, too:
ARweapcore.jpg

heatercore.jpg

^older one

a six-by-six:
nbdcore.jpg


DryFire said:
can a dual core rad still be single pass? (kinda noobish question)
Click to expand...
yeah - well, it isnt a dualcore - a core that can pack dual 120s can still be single pass - pics of that one coming soon...
dual core, single pass - I modded one into a dual core single pass but I'm not sure if dual core is really what you were meaning.

quick breakdown of dual pass vs. single pass:
normal flow path for a dual pass core:
water enters thru either side of the divided top tanks - it then moves down one side of the core thru whatever channels are fed by the tank on the inlet side of the core - the water then moves into the bottom tank and across to the other side of the core where it moves up the channels on the other side of the core to the tank on the outlet side.
dual pass -- water flow is in, down, across, up and out. All waterflow is thru 6 or 7 channels when moving in either side thru the core.

single pass - water moves into the top tank and then moves down all of the channels where it enters the bottom tank and then out of the core thru the outlet fitting.
single pass -- water flow is in, down and out. Waterflow is thru 13 or so channels, all in the same direction.
 
Hmmm, many of these cores being shown are way too thick to be useful with low pressure/noise fans.

It may come as a bit of a surprise, but for fans that aren't deafeningly loud what you really want are heater-cores/radiators about half as thick as what is being shown here.

I'd be willing to bet $50 that if you could cut those heater-cores in half (half as in like two slices of bread pulled apart) that they'd work better like that given most any same fan short of a screaming Delta.

Sure, what's being shown here will work okay, but it is possible to do a lot better requiring smaller sized cores and low powered quiet fans.
 
Cathar said:
Hmmm, many of these cores being shown are way too thick to be useful with low pressure/noise fans.

It may come as a bit of a surprise, but for fans that aren't deafeningly loud what you really want are heater-cores/radiators about half as thick as what is being shown here.

I'd be willing to bet $50 that if you could cut those heater-cores in half (half as in like two slices of bread pulled apart) that they'd work better like that given most any same fan short of a screaming Delta.

Sure, what's being shown here will work okay, but it is possible to do a lot better requiring smaller sized cores and low powered quiet fans.
Click to expand...

they have '77 bonneville cores in Australia??

lol. j/k. :)

They are not that restrictive to air flow. The fins are not as tightly packed as they appear in the pics. Part of that is the angle the pics are taken from - the other part is likely my photography skills (or maybe lack thereof). If you look straight into the fins, you can see right thru the core - air passes thru them with little effort. I have some I run on 7 volts with almost no noise and the cooling is very good (better than any commercial rad I've tested them against anyway).

hmmm...chopping the thickness in half would also cut down on the number of fins that are actually lurking on the fins inside the core - that is the primetime cooling zone and cutting that down would not be a good thing. I don't know if camry cores are made like this as I have not sent one to the table for dissection as of yet but most of the american cores use the design with internal fins to increase surface area. I suppose I need to post pics of a chopped up b'ville core as it is hard to describe what is going on inside of one of them without pics of the internals. Reducing the section with internal fins would have a massive impace on the surface area for copper to airflow contact.

For these particular cores, if you chop the thickness in half, you will also cut the amount of surface area for water-to-metal contact in half and the amount of space for waterflow in half (actually, it would likely be more than 1/2 of the surface area for water contact and waterflow because the outer solder seams on the fins would still have to be the same ---it would be the metal in the middle that would have to be removed for it to be safe). Considering the method in which the seams are sealed on almost any heater core, one with half the thickness would have much smaller channels for waterflow in either direction through the core (talking dual pass cores here obviously). Seems like it would be more of a bottleneck to flow but I'm half awake and everything seems like a bottleneck at the moment....it has been one of those days.

the 1980s camry cores are 1 1/4" thick - the ones in pics are at most 2" thick and some have the fins less tightly spaced than the camry cores. I will get a camry for the hell of it and try one against a b'ville. I have some ultra-quiet 120mm panaflos that I can run at 7v and some others that will knock down walls at 18v --obviously, it wouldnt be much fun without both sides of the airflow fence being tossed into the mix.

As far as the pricing goes, the b'ville takes that one hands down - I can get 3 b'villes for the cost of almost any of the camry HCs. For that price difference, the camry will have to kick the b'ville's ass with low flow & high flow before it would be worth it. For that matter, 2 b'villes cores can be ran with something close to no airflow and still provide good cooling in a room of average temp. a dual b'ville setup would cost less than a single camry HC or any of the thinner import models on this side of the pond.

btw, which year model camry HC are you using?
 
I know what you're saying weapon, but there's considerable test evidence to back up my point of view, despite what appears "obvious" from a first glance. Indeed, I once though much like you did, and with similar logic. It is flawed though. Am too tired to go into it right now, suffice to say you should check out this thread over at Procooling if you're interested:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10000 <- Start from about page 2 or so.

I've somewhat gone off the Camry core though. The fin-density is too high, despite their thin-ness.

A more appropriately sized core for the fans that we normally use is 12-16FPI (Fins Per Inch), 25-30mm thick, and ~16x16cm in size. With such a core it is possible to achieve the same cooling with a single Papst 26dBA fan, as it is with using 2 x 30dBA fans on the sort of core you've got shown there.

Again - read that thread above for more info.
 
I'm planning on using a heater core for a '66 Chevy Caprice wagon that perfectly fits 6 80mm fans...good tip on the shroud, I will incorporate it...
 
These heatercores are not very restrictive, you can feel a breeze through them. It's incredible how much air you can move through them easily.
 
Cathar said:
I know what you're saying weapon, but there's considerable test evidence to back up my point of view, despite what appears "obvious" from a first glance. Indeed, I once though much like you did, and with similar logic. It is flawed though. Am too tired to go into it right now, suffice to say you should check out this thread over at Procooling if you're interested:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10000 <- Start from about page 2 or so.

I've somewhat gone off the Camry core though. The fin-density is too high, despite their thin-ness.

A more appropriately sized core for the fans that we normally use is 12-16FPI (Fins Per Inch), 25-30mm thick, and ~16x16cm in size. With such a core it is possible to achieve the same cooling with a single Papst 26dBA fan, as it is with using 2 x 30dBA fans on the sort of core you've got shown there.

Again - read that thread above for more info.
Click to expand...

interesting stuff regarding cores with quiet fans. honestly, the noise from twin san ace 120s doesnt bother me (I dont even hear them when they are on anymore :) ) so what kind of cooling comparison is there for the thinner core with high cfm fans vs. one more like the tradition 2" thick american models? is there any info on performance difference with different H2O flow rates? (didnt have time to read the entire thread atm)

also, on some systems (like my main gaming box) fan noise doesnt worry me at all - it is hard to hear anything when you have on headphones and you're getting blasted at with by some foo with a m249 or an ak. :) The main concern is max cooling performance on that system. Still, if I were going to build one for my office, noise would definitely be a concern - I tried dropping one of my scaled down phase change systems in there and the other bastages in the office almost never quit bitching about it (although I suspect that was primarily because they were stuck using the company's crap systems...heh)

I suppose part of the problem I have with that idea is it is a little difficult for me to imagine coolant temps being held closer to ambient than my current setup -
ambient temp 23.2C
coolant temp (inline temp sensor on outlet of core/direct H2O contact) 23.8C

anyway, I may have found a core in the US that is close to the honda p60 you have but haven't had a chance to take a very close look at it. oddly enough, I have seen something very close to the p60 somewhere and it was dirt cheap -- now I just have to remember what it was for and where the hell I was when I saw it (this is the disadvantage to bouncing through HVAC, autostores and every other local rad shop while looking for h20 and phase change parts... :confused: )
 
I'm going to be purchasing a dual heatercore shortly and I was wondering how I should set it up re: fans and shrouds... Would it be better to have 4 fans on it, 2 on the front and 2 on the back? If 4 fans would be better, is there really a need to have 4 fans on a dual heatercore? It seems like overkill to me.
 
I just installed all my h20 cooling stuff. ehiem 1280 pump, double core from dangerden, 5.25 bay res, whitewaterblock. I have no clue where i'm going to stick this stuff yet.. Right now its running w/ the side door open so I don't have to cut just yet. At the moment its looking like the rad at the bottom of the case(fits just barely) and the pump on the backside. Right now I kind of wish I would have bought a smaller rad. I still have to tweak it to get the temps right but oh well.
 
EbolaZaire said:
I'm going to be purchasing a dual heatercore shortly and I was wondering how I should set it up re: fans and shrouds... Would it be better to have 4 fans on it, 2 on the front and 2 on the back? If 4 fans would be better, is there really a need to have 4 fans on a dual heatercore? It seems like overkill to me.
Click to expand...

use a shroud with at least a 1" standoff between the fans and the face of the core -
have the fans aimed to pull air thru the core.

2 fans will handle the job
 
2Fresh said:
Thanks for the ref :) I do hope to get the shrouds back in soon. :)
Click to expand...

Just ordered things from 2Fresh, highly rec. :p Cant wait for it to get here. :D
 
Pic of three of the most used dual 120 cores (in various stages of completion):
3corcr.jpg

the black one that is in the foreground is a 2-342 ('70 chevy c10 truck, single pass) - it has flat side panels soldered onto it, a shroud for dual 120s, slight extensions to the factory pipes and brass barbs along with several coats of black gloss.

the second one back is a 2-199 ('77 b'ville without ac - dual pass) - it has had the factory tubes cut down, deburred and polished, flat copper side panels silver soldered onto the core and it is about to go to the paint room.

the one in the back is a 2-302 ('77 bonneville with ac - dual pass) - it has had the factory tubes removed and 1/2" brass barbs soldered in place. no side panels or paint...yet.
 
Hey,

I am looking for a dual 120 rad or HeatCore at the moment. I am having seious trouble deciding on anything and especially finding a dual shroud. Did you make that shroud yourself? If not, where can I get one?

Also, is it that terrible to have the fans blow through the radiator?
 
Does it matter if the barbs on the heater core are on the top or bottom of the setup? Just wonder so then I ciuld have the rad go straight into the t line and then straight into the pump instead of having to have a bend in the tube. Will it cut down on flow any? Im guess not, but like always, want to make sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top