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Heat question.

N

Nocontact

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 8, 2004
Messages
107
My buddy has a rig with a P4 3.0 ht, 1gb of Ram, and asus P4P800 S Mobo, with a cd-rw and dvd-rw, as well as an 80GB IDE drive and a 300GB SATA drive.
He is running a 350W power supply.

Sometimes his case gets hot, you can actually feel the warmth on the outside of it and of course he's concerned. It doesn't seem as though performance is an issue but I'm wondering if he needs a more powerful PSU or maybe another fan inside the case to help things out a little.
 
The heat is coming from the CPU or the PSU, assuming its in the area near those things. Basically, there are three options to solve this problem: Either more case fans, tidy up the case so that cables aren't obstructing airflow, or finally get a new, bigger case, which will give more air in the case to move the heat away from those things.

Generally, that sort of heat won't affect performance too much, assuming of course that its a small-ish case and that the heat is going straight from those parts to the case. If it is a larger case, he has a serious airflow problem, and it may damage components.

Either way, add more fans to the case and tidy up the case to get rid of the heat, until he gets a new case, if you think he needs one.
 
The case is an ATX midtower and it's not really very cluttered inside. The heat seems to be felt on the top of the case which is the odd thing because that's not that close to the cpu. I guess it's a little closer to the PSU though.

How can I add more fans to it? Where would I seat them?
 
Nocontact said:
The case is an ATX midtower and it's not really very cluttered inside. The heat seems to be felt on the top of the case which is the odd thing because that's not that close to the cpu. I guess it's a little closer to the PSU though.

How can I add more fans to it? Where would I seat them?
Click to expand...
Cool (pun not intended), just add some fans in the case and you'll be right.

On the back of the case, there should be a couple of spaces or vents for fans, and a couple of screw holes. Measure the size of these vents, and go to a computer shop/electronics store, and ask them for fans of that size. Then, just screw them in the tower, plug them into the mobo and you're done!
 
Under the main PSU fan there's a vent looking thing with hole. Can I just screw another fan in there then?
I still can't figure why the top of the case is hot.
Is a new PSU recommended?
 
4keatimj said:
The heat is coming from the CPU or the PSU, assuming its in the area near those things. Basically, there are three options to solve this problem: Either more case fans, tidy up the case so that cables aren't obstructing airflow, or finally get a new, bigger case, which will give more air in the case to move the heat away from those things.
Click to expand...


Id agree on the three solutions part
and that your suggestions are valid, but consider all of them part of point 2 below

cut & paste 101
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

there are three basic components to any thermal solution:
the heat transfer interface
(in this case the heatsinks total area for the CPU, GPU and in the PSU)

the heat transfer medium's volume\pressure to time
(in this case airflow, with additional variables like airflow resistance)

and the temperature differential
(where using cooler air has a huge impact)
while the total heat generated by the various heat sources based on how much work they are doing is the high side of a temperature differential, by employing a cooler airstream you have the option to lower the lower side of the differential, conversely your able to move less heat in the same timeframe as the differential decreases

a real good computer oriented guide to thermodynamics
General Heat Transfer Guide

Heat transfer is all about temperature differentials. Conduction through materials and convection away from surfaces is proportional to the temperature differential that exists. Basically the thermal resistance of a given solution changes with the temperature differential, which is why thermal solutions are rated in °C/W which leaves that variable ambient open but gives you a formula

The heat transfer through the wall follows a simple equation:
Q=k/L(T1-T2)


We can draw some interesting conclusions from this equation. First, heat transfer is proportional to the temperature difference on the object. If the temperature differential doubles, the heat transferred doubles. Second, the conduction coefficient "k" is proportional to heat transfer. If the conduction coefficient doubles, the heat transfer doubles Alternatively, for the same differential temperature, twice as much heat may be transferred. The final observation is "L". As thickness increases, heat transfer decreases. Alternatively, to maintain the same heat transfer through a material twice as thick requires twice the temperature differential.
Click to expand...

while that addresses conductance, there is a corrallary for convection (transfer from the heatsink to a fluid (air\water\ect)
its known as Newton's Law of Cooling
>>>.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

in short when the room temperature gets too hot you can overwhelm your thermal solution
(and that includes everything from phase change to H2O to air)

getting the heat out of the case sounds like its more important in this case than point one
so 4keatimj has hit the nail on the head, but if the room temperature is elevated youd need considerably more airflow than if its cooler inorder to maintain the same case temperature
 
I installed mobo monitor to check what the temps are like and I wasn't too pleased.
By just downloading 2 torrents the cpu temp climbed all the way to 59degrees but what was also strange was that task manager said the cpu use was up to almost 60% and this was with no other processes running.
It seems to be a problem with the cpu fan/heatsink combo. Am I right to assume this?
 
Definitely needs some serious work put into the cooling there. 59C isn't good. 57 is my record high with Prime95 running full blast and my room rather hotter than I liked -- and that before I fixed up my case a bit better. One thing I have -- besides the extra fans on the back -- is a large 120MM fan in the side of my case (and believe me, this case was NOT easy to cut.) You'd probably have to be really desperate to try that, but, it's an alternative to consider. When I first did this many years ago I had to buy one from RadioShack and had to splice the wires, but, these days you can just get on Newegg and get one from people who make fans actually made for PCs (and for a lot cheaper I might add.) And most cases are easier to cut than mine (very solid metal, most are ultra-weak aluminum alloys or something) but, people don't particularly like having a large hole in their case. ^_^ (Mind you, many cases these days actually have the spot already on them for such a fan now, just it's a lot cheaper to buy a fan and cut a hole than to buy a case like that.)

First and foremost, if there isn't one already, you need to put a fan on the part of the case near the CPU. Any decently set up case should have a good slot for a fan to go there. If it doesn't, time to buy a new case probably (some poorly designed ones rely on the PSU to pull the heat of the CPU out, but, this isn't really an ideal setup -- especially since many PSUs don't pull the air directly from that direction.) Also, check to see if any other fans have died in there. They don't just die of old age, dust gathers inside and clogs them up so they won't hardly run or stop at times. In particular check that PSU's fan because if it's clogged up, it will cause the PSU to get VERY hot. My aunt let her PSU fan clog up and die and several chips on the board died very badly (there were scorch marks on the board.) It wasn't easy to replace either, it was a custom e-machines *shivers* PSU for a case designed to only fit one like it. If its fan is bad, it is possible to replace, though you have to be darned careful (those capacitors in there are probably about as dangerous as the capacitors in a CRT.) Might be simpler just to grab a new power supply.

You think it's the HSF at fault, but, you didn't mention the MB temperature, so I wasn't really sure and went ahead and mentioned this part. It's the usual cause of a CPU running THAT hot when not OCed. Do check it, it does matter. On the HSF, the main possibilities there are to first remove the HSF and redo the thermal paste (making sure to get it done properly without putting too much on and all) -- might not hurt to lap the HSF if it's not one of those rare ones with a smooth bottom (even among expensive ones few have this.) Of course, be sure to be careful, it's easy to mess up a CPU putting the HSF on wrong. If that fails to help, it may be necessary to just go ahead and get a better HSF.
 
There's a slot on the back for another fan so I think I should start there, and the rig is pretty much dust free, that's the amazing thing.
The mobo temps were in the low 40s and maintained that, that's why I figured the cpu was the main source of the problem.

"might not hurt to lap the HSF"

Not sure what you meant by this.
 
Uhm, how many fans are in there? Heh, about the only way it can be dust free -- under the assumption you meant it was surprising in that he didn't clean it as often as he should -- is if it doesn't actually have much airflow at all. Have you checked the PSU though? Even if the rest of the system is fine, they gather dust in a hurry (that much electricity is, quite literally, a magnet for dust.) Definitely remind him to keep an eye on it, it can be bad when someone lets one die because it's fan dies (as in Bad Things Can Happen when those components actually overheat enough to die, it could end up sending a huge surge or something under the right conditions.)

Now, what I mean about lapping the heatsink is a process where you basically try to get the surface as smooth as is physically possible. Practically every heatsink out there will have a somewhat rough surface (you can look at it and tell, though it might actually feel somewhat smooth to the touch.) Just due to the way they cut the metal or something. The idea is to take some sandpaper -- starting with a coarse grit and working down to a fine one as you get it more smoothed out -- and get the surface as flat and smooth as you can.

Also, one thing you may want to do when applying thermal paste is to first apply a bit to the heatsink, wipe it across the entire are the CPU could come close to so that it gets in whatever tiny holes are left then wipe that bit off. (Remember, you don't want too much, so the bit you put on the CPU is enough, the idea here is just to get it into those tiny holes a little more thoroughly, but, you still need it in the holes on that CPU most of all, so that's why you keep it on the CPU rather than the heatsink.)

If you've never done this before, you might want to at least look up some good howto guides that show pictures and such because installing a HSF is risky business if you aren't careful (I've ruined two CPUs myself this way, and I DID know what I was doing, just wasn't careful enough.) You might want to consider this option after trying to get those chasis temperatures down first due to the risk that is involved, though I must say that it definitely always HELPS if the CPU gets better transferrance to the HSF, even if the actual temperatures don't go noticably down, it might still be transfering heat away better enough to make it more stable. (Of course, if the temperatures end up worse instead, it's probably because of too much compound. It's easy to end up with too much. You want kind of the minimum to cover the entire surface of the thing basically.)
 
I checked it for dust myself and considering the rest of the apartment that's why I noticed how clean it was in there.
There's one case fan in the front, the cpu fan and then the fans in the PSU.
 
Ok, that's one of those systems relying on the PSU to pull heat away from the CPU.

Definitely put a fan in the area near the CPU. You MIGHT even just go overboard while you're at it and do even more fans. (General rule of thumb is you want at least as many going out as coming in because fans blowing out will pull air in kind of ok, but, fans blowing air in won't push it out as well. In fact, the MAIN point of having multiple incoming fans is so you can essentially make the airflow go the way you want more predictably.) The sidefan thing definitely works pretty well for me (drops my chasis temperatures way down, and I just have it modded to run at 7V rather than the 12V it was designed for -- sounds like a train is sitting next to me if I run it at 12.) Of course, whether a hole and a fan in the side would be appreciated or not is another matter... (Plus cutting it out in the first place is a pain if you don't have a good jigsaw.)

If all else fails, a better HSF wouldn't hurt. I'm betting that's the stock aluminum HSF? Those aren't usually very good at all (in fact, I'm kind of dissapointed that manufacturers of such hot CPUs like AMD has been for a LONG time refuse to make copper stock still.) Copper is probably most ideal, but, even a better aluminum heatsink is usually better than the stock things.

Either way, get chasis temperatures down to about as low as they more or less go, THEN decide about the CPU.
 
It is the stock heatsink and you're right, if they know it's going to run hot, why give him the same one that I have with a much cooler processor.
I'll try another case fan in there and see where that takes him.
He really wants a new PSU too because the one he has is like a jet engine so I'm wondering if there a any that will not only reduce noise but help with the cooling as well?
 
ducts
a direct duct from the outside of the case to the CPU HSF and then exhaust the mobo compartment seperate from the PSU
another duct "feeding" the PSU fresh cool outside air

common mods for both quieting and fortifying a cooling solution
it will also "boost" the capacity of the PSU and lengthen its life expectancy

seen it done with everything from cardboard and PVC to hand made and layed up fiberglass \ composite materials ducts

the direct CPU duct is typically good for 5C regardless of the C\W of the heatsink and the ambient, because the case almost always preheats the intake air that much and its dealing with a turbulant flow as well, whereas a direct duct acts as a "velocity" stack
 
Personally, I haven't been able to figure out how to ghetto make my own ducts (god I'm a cheapo) so haven't been able to do that, yet, but, it is true that you should actually see quite a drop. I have seen for absolute certainty that my CPU temperature is more affected by my chasis temperature than I'd have even expected from such a well designed copper heatsink. In fact, I suspect if I could get my chasis back down to ~19C like it used to be I could get back up to 2.5. One of these days I have to get down and figure out just how to do it really.

Mind you, if your chasis temperatures are bad, it can lead to other instabilities (though the CPU is first priority since it's most likely to die an early death due to overheating.) When you get a chance, see what MBM says the system temperature is.

Anyway, on the PSUs, there's a lot out there that are quiet and reliable. I don't know all the brands known as reliable right now, but, I do know that the ThermalTake PurePower is designed to be pretty quiet (with the high end ones even having a speed control dial so you can get it just right.) I can't tell you how quiet for certain because it's impossible to hear such a quiet thing over my 120MM fan as even using just over half normal voltage it's still pretty loud. ^_^ (Don't buy the RadioShack thing if you need silence obviously!)
 
That's way to advanced for what I'm capable of. I don't think he wants anything that's going to involve cutting the case or adding external ducts.
 
Heh, I wasn't finished with my edit cycles. I added a bit on there. Basically, I still think that even if you were to do ducts you would still need to get those chasis temperatures down, though it definitely wouldn't hurt even a little to do that anyway.

What is the system temperature being reported as by MBM anyway?
 
By just downloading 2 torrents the cpu temp climbed all the way to 59degrees but what was also strange was that task manager said the cpu use was up to almost 60% and this was with no other processes running.

The mobo was right around 40.
 
well its case specific
in several cases you have an "upeer compatment" which is easy to block off with almost any flat material, a w\ a few cable pass throughs, in other cases you dont have that and a "real" duct is required

holes are generally required, in the "easy" senerio above a top fan feeds the PSU

then cutting a hole directly opposite the HSF on the side pannel, you attach a tube to the sidepanel as a ghetto velocity stack (to be a real one it would need to narrow like a carb body)

Ive done similar things in rackmounts
actually paper\cardboard ducts are quite common on even OEM rackmount systems
 
Nocontact said:
The mobo was right around 40.
Click to expand...

o_O

My grandmother's system sits inside an enclosed thing sort of like an entertainment center with only the front opened. It's maximum was in the mid 30s on a hot summer day when it had been running a while. The heat had no where to go so just cycled back through the system, plus, the monitor sitting right next to it didn't help. And, yes, I know this is a horrible setup and I've done all I can to help (even cut a few holes in the back of the shelf above so theres some tiny room for air to flow, but, she just covered them up) and she just insists on keeping the PC like that. Good thing she has one of those low end P4-2.4s that practically run 40C if you set a blowtorch to them. d-:

Either MBM is reporting things wrong or you have one heck of a hot system (and the fact that system isn't unstable does make me wonder, do be sure to check to see if the bios agrees with MBM -- don't forget to account for the fact that the MB and CPU will both be running slightly cooler in the bios than once you have operating systems and all loaded.)

Might be time to consider a new case. Even with only one fan it's hard to imagine it being so hot. Something is causing you to have VERY bad airflow. It may just be that poorly designed. Of course, look at the layout of wherever it's set up and make sure it has room for air to flow away rather than being recycled back through the system (though like I said, even in that setup it shouldn't go so high.) Antec makes a nice little case with a duct much like what I think Ice Czar is describing, built into the thing. No cutting or anything required. Doesn't come with a fan actually installed in there, but, I think one can fit as the duct is designed to be adjustable. My grandmother's case happened to be one of these in fact.

Also, one thing many people don't realize is that you can potentially get a better airflow if you use a full length tower instead. I bought a super-cheap $22 one (god the shipping doubles the cost of any case you buy online, but, it was still cheaper than any full tower I could find around here offline) and had to do a bit of drilling and cutting (in particular to get the PSU up seperate from the CPU, it is one of those expecting to use the PSU as a case fan, though at least my PSU is one of those with a fan on the bottom and back so it actually WORKS for that purpose -- I still wanted more room) and I had to get tiny fans to put on the sides since it assumed the PSU was good enough, but, well, now my system maxes out around 24C, maybe 25C or so. My CPU starts up around 39C for a few moments when I reboot and idles at 40-42 tops. I was pretty happy with the results considering my old mid-tower ghetto modded like you wouldn't believe was running several degrees warmer. And it was practically a cheese grate with all the holes I'd drilled over the years to put various fans here or there (had to fill some in or cover them with tape to get air flowing correctly.)

You know, I don't understand why his system is stable. Those temperatures may be reported incorrectly or something. Don't forget to do like I said earlier and check to see if your BIOS agrees with MBM at all (though MBM's database seems to be pretty reliable, especially with compensating for boards that don't report accurately.) If nothing else, that cpu running so hot is definitely wearing on it's lifetime. Mind you, it will still last years yet, but, if he means to keep it a long time from now to use as a server or something, he may be dissapointed to find it not reliable enough to act as a server by then.
 
Performance doesn't seem to be affected but the temps that mobo monitor are giving are right. You can feel that the top of the case itself is hotter than it should be.

Can anyone answer if a new PSU of any kind can help with the temp issue as well?
 
Performance won't be noticably affected by heat (except for the fact that the hotter you start the less you can hope to overclock.) It's stability that's normally affected, and I'm amazed it's stable if it's that hot, but, I guess since it is you still should worry about the fact that a CPU sitting at nearly 60C most of the time is looking at a noticably shorter lifetime possibly. Besides, if you get it down to normal temperatures you might get it to overclock anyway, so that's always something to consider.

Adding a new PSU MIGHT help, particularly if the PSU is better designed for the purpose of pulling the air out. Like I said earlier, the ThermalTake PurePower is among those that I know can do this (don't buy the expensive > 500W ones, a 420 or so is plenty for that system unless you've got some seriously picky hardware.) I still strongly recommend that you at least increase the number of fans somewhat. If you do nothing else, just putting one more fan in the back alone would help a lot. Ideally you should probably do something like put a single fan in the back up at the top near the CPU and one of those turbine fans that take up a PCI slot down at the very bottom (preferably without a card blocking it obviously.) It's not a perfect setup, but, it helps get the air flowing through that case more and pulls more of the heat away from the CPU.
 
Well I added a case fan to the back and although it seems to have helped a degree or two, the overall cpu temp (it's a p4 3.0) still hovers around the 55 degree mark which seems high.
The other odd thing is that his cpu usage in the task manager gets up to 45-50 % when all he's doing is using bittorrent. I don't know how this is possible but I'm wondering if it can be related to the heat issue.
 
The more heavily a CPU is used, the hotter it runs. Actually, BitTorrent can SOMETIMES take up a lot of power when tracking a lot of connections and all, though I must admit that going as high as 50% is pretty shockingly high... I think I see something like 13% as a maximum for Azureus when I have multiple torrents running. Hit CTRL+ALT+DEL and look under processes, then sort by CPU usage. Is there anything using a lot of that power, or is it purely the BT client? I'm inclined to say that if your BitTorrent client can use that much power, it's time to switch it with a better client. Maybe BitComet as it's probably the most CPU efficient.

I have heard that the newer P4s do run hotter, but, I still must say that 55C seems a bit excessive for no more than half utilization. I mean, heck, my own CPU now runs below 50C most of the time with Prime95 very efficiently pushing that thing as hard as it can be pushed, and I have it overclocked as much as my current setup will allow (can't do > 12.5 multipliers.) Unlike Athlon 64, Bartons -- even mobiles -- don't run THAT cool, and I don't have the greatest heatsink in the world here (though I am cheating with that big fan cut into the side.)

Anyway, I guess, technically, the cpu won't die any time soon hitting such temperatures, so if you can get it to max out around 60 under worst conditions it might last long enough to be replaced before it ever dies. Thing is, even if it won't die in any hurry, once you start hitting temperatures like those, you are getting into the point where CPUs tend to get unstable.

I have heard of people running P4s undervolted and still getting them to overclock a bit even then. Perhaps you might try undervolting? Take small steps at a time though, go down too much and you'll have to reset the CMOS to even boot it up. Find the lowest voltage that lets it get as far as windows, see if it's prime95 stable, and then step up one if it's not. That SHOULD get the CPU running cooler by at least a bit. Bear in mind that there's just only so much cooling that can be done, and it's obviously physically impossible to get a CPU below the ambient temperatures around it with air cooling (really, even water cooling is limited to ambient in the end, but, it removes heat so much more quickly that it means it's going to take a lot to make the temperature rise.) Obviously make a note before you start of where stock voltage is, and be sure not to go up instead of down since obviously that will just increase temperatures and instability. Unfortunately, a CPU requires a certain amount of power to function, so you may or may not be able to actually get it to go down and stay stable (when it runs into a situation where it needs more power, you'll probably just get a spontaneous reboot. A logging temperature/voltage monitor such as MBM5 is a lifesaver here...)

Failing all that, I guess you're going to have to put a better heatsink in there. Get something that's copper and you should be able to pull the temperature down enough to get it stable. You might try something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106032 I don't know my P4 types, so make sure that's for the right slot type obviously. ^_^ It's nothing spectacular, but, about the cheapest you're going to get that works well probably.

Do whatever you can about that case btw. Harddrives are probably the first to go if you let system temperatures sit too hot. That is, with the exception of sensitive northbridges like my last MB, which will end up rebooting you if they get too hot. You may want to add cooling to the harddrive if it's running too hot. It's NOT fun when one of those goes... Enable S.M.A.R.T. in the BIOS and use a utility such as DTemp which can read harddrive temperatures and see what it's running. Some harddrives don't really run very hot, so it may not be much of an issue, but, some (most notably things such as the Raptors) can really get warm in a hurry if you aren't careful. I'm guessing that there would have been more noticable instability or something if the harddrive were one of the really hot ones, but, it may be running warm enough that it's going to fail unexpectedly (when does one expect their harddrive to fail?) someday.
 
Jumping back in on the discussion...

When you mention that the CPU jumps up when using Bittorrent, and CPU is running at 60%, that sent alarm bells ringing in my head. Basically, check to see what/how much is running. You may have a virus/spyware infection on that machine, so that might be making a lot run in the backgroung and causing the CPU to go righ up. Also, open up task manager on the machine, and see what the commit charge is (bottom right corner of the screen), if this is really high (like a large percentage of the total memory it can access), you probably have a problem with too many things running in the background, as well as the heat problem (even at 60% processor load, it should not be running that hot). The large CPU usage isn't due to heat; rather, a problem with tasks running in the background. Get Spybot S&D 1.4, or Adaware, and run those to clean your system up. Also, use Msconfig (start -> Run -> msconfig) to clean up startup entries that you don't need. And also get some anti-virus software, and make sure the computer is updated.

Make sure you follow all that, just to make sure that the computer is running as good as it can get.

Mind you, that doesn't take away the heat problem. Get some more fans (if there are spaces for them), or better still, if you can, run the cas with the side off. A cheap solution, yes, but until you have it all under control it would be a wise idea to take it off to keep the case cool. Assuming of course the room temp is not really hot (thenks Ice Czar ;) )
 
Yeah, you have to do something about that surprisingly high CPU usage. Like he said, while heat doesn't equal utilization, utilization does equal heat, meaning you can at least get it running in a more reasonable temperature range when not being fully used. Of course, until the heat problem is actually solved, I'd be afraid to run anything that uses the full power of that CPU lest it get so hot it goes unstable every time. It REALLY sucks to be in the middle of a game you haven't saved in a while because you are on a roll and because the ability to save every time you blink in most games kind of takes out all the fun, and all of a sudden, BAM, you're staring at the BIOS memory test...

I do honestly believe you've got to get that CPU temperature down just a bit more at the very least. If it's doing 55C at a mere 50% utilization, once you hit 100, it's probably going to go over 60. Well, every CPU is different even among same types, so I don't know where that thing will get unstable, but, mine is probably going to start producing bad data if I run it in the area of 58C or so more than a few seconds at a time. Heck, for all I know, that CPU doesn't get unstable until it hits 65C, so it may be ok anyway (except for the fact that that pretty well halves it's potential lifetime...)
 
It's not a spyware or virus issue and I just clean installed xp for him a few weeks ago.
It's a P4 3.0 with 1gb of Ram so I don't see how it's resources can be being eaten up just with a few torrents running.
The temps are high in the bios too, after a reboot, I've checked and sometimes they've been as high as 51 immediately.
 
Nocontact said:
It's a P4 3.0 with 1gb of Ram so I don't see how it's resources can be being eaten up just with a few torrents running.
Click to expand...

Well, that IS the point after all. If you're seeing such utilization on a system like that, something is funky here. I mean, unless you have a lot of torrents running with possibly thousands of connections (T3 or something?) I'd say time to replace that BT client. And, just in case you probably really should run a spyware and virus scan. You'd be surprised how easily they can get in there sometimes.

The issue of the up to 50% utilization is really a seperate issue from the heat here though. It just means that since such utilization is going to be occuring so often, it cause a problem due to the fact that at a mere 50% of something inefficient it runs at least 55C (and if you want to see the difference, get a HLT forcing program, set it to use 50% of the CPU, then get Prime95 to use the rest and you'll see a cpu even hotter than what you've seen before because Prime95 is efficiency itself.) Getting that utilization closer to the smaller numbers it should be would at least help a tad for the meantime.

Since the issue is seperate, irregardless of if that is solved or not, the heat issue still stands. Well, you've gotten it better at least, 55C would be great if it weren't a mere 50% doing that. I guess you may just as well go ahead and run Prime95 on that thing and see what happens so you can find out what sort of scale you're looking at here and if that system is going to have to be used only for games and programs that don't push it hard enough to overheat. Be sure you tell it you're just stress testing. You don't want to join gimps because it's probably not a 100% stable system right now, so any results it produces may well be useless to them.

Don't forget to try undervolting and that sort of thing. You may not get it any lower than stock at all, but, if you do, it may run cool enough to be the difference between massively unstable at 100% and maybe being just stable at 100%. Well, if everything else you do fails, you can always just slap a halfway decent heatsink on there (I've yet to see a stock heatsink I was impressed with -- for a CPU) and it should go low enough to make it able to run 100% stock with stability and tolerable temperatures at least. Even a really good aluminum can probably do better than the stock things.
 
I think that's what I'm going to do, just get put a new sink on for him.
I think this one is only going around 1200rpm so it may just be a bum one.
 
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