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Headphone Amp Question

M

mrtheshaggy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 28, 2003
Messages
1,209
I've been using on-board sound ever since my old audigy died. I use strictly headphones. I was shopping around newegg for a replacement and noticed that a $24.99 AR Asus Xonar card is specified to have a headphone amp: newegg link. Is that true? I thought the cards with headphone amps are well within the $100 range?

I'm not planning to spend any more than $50 on a card. If I can get one with a headphone amp for that low are there an recommendations you guys would be willing to offer me on the best pick?

Thanks
 
In the $50 or under category, that Xonar is your best pick. Go for it.
 
mrtheshaggy said:
I've been using on-board sound ever since my old audigy died. I use strictly headphones. I was shopping around newegg for a replacement and noticed that a $24.99 AR Asus Xonar card is specified to have a headphone amp: newegg link. Is that true? I thought the cards with headphone amps are well within the $100 range?

I'm not planning to spend any more than $50 on a card. If I can get one with a headphone amp for that low are there an recommendations you guys would be willing to offer me on the best pick?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I just got Xonar DG setup with AD700 cans... very nice sound and amp for $30 ;)
 
Just saw the ASUS Xonar DG 5.1 on ++++ for $23 after MIR and assumed it was a typo but apparently not. This is an amazing buy if it's what they say it is. It's only 5.1 not 7.1 but you're looking at headphone use and for this it looks excellent for the cost. I may pick one up next time I'm in ++++ just to see what you get for $23. Probably not a match for the Inferno I have currently but that cost 5 times as much.

Dustin
 
Price:Quality on the xonar series is near excellent, i say go for it.
 
For cans the Xonar is bang for buck. The headphone amp job is basically to provide dolby for positional audio. That's about it. Creative rebranded it to CSS3d or something on their stuff but its plain old dolby faking surround on stereo.
 
dustNbone said:
Just saw the ASUS Xonar DG 5.1 on ++++ for $23 after MIR and assumed it was a typo but apparently not. This is an amazing buy if it's what they say it is. It's only 5.1 not 7.1 but you're looking at headphone use and for this it looks excellent for the cost. I may pick one up next time I'm in ++++ just to see what you get for $23. Probably not a match for the Inferno I have currently but that cost 5 times as much.

Dustin
Click to expand...

Nothing is true 7.1 its 5.1 upmixed where the rear channels are split up. So 7.1 is just another markerting tool
 
Spooony said:
For cans the Xonar is bang for buck. The headphone amp job is basically to provide dolby for positional audio. That's about it. Creative rebranded it to CSS3d or something on their stuff but its plain old dolby faking surround on stereo.
Click to expand...

Spoony:

This is simply not true. The headphone amplifier provides proper dedicated amplication for headphones. It is not "for Dolby" as you continue to say. Dolby headphone is provided in the sound card software package just as CMSS-3D is in Creative's for positional audio.

Headphone amplifiers deliver a cleaner signal and the proper impedance to power demanding headphones. It has nothing to do with sound effects as you continue to say.

Digital audio converters are used to get the best music experience for headphones, but you will never see one say "Dolby" on it.
 
EarlKeim said:
Spoony:

This is simply not true. The headphone amplifier provides proper dedicated amplication for headphones. It is not "for Dolby" as you continue to say. Dolby headphone is provided in the sound card software package just as CMSS-3D is in Creative's for positional audio.

Headphone amplifiers deliver a cleaner signal and the proper impedance to power demanding headphones. It has nothing to do with sound effects as you continue to say.

Digital audio converters are used to get the best music experience for headphones, but you will never see one say "Dolby" on it.
Click to expand...

omgawd someone who knows about audio you must be an elitist snob
 
EarlKeim said:
Spoony:

This is simply not true. The headphone amplifier provides proper dedicated amplication for headphones. It is not "for Dolby" as you continue to say. Dolby headphone is provided in the sound card software package just as CMSS-3D is in Creative's for positional audio.

Headphone amplifiers deliver a cleaner signal and the proper impedance to power demanding headphones. It has nothing to do with sound effects as you continue to say.

Digital audio converters are used to get the best music experience for headphones, but you will never see one say "Dolby" on it.
Click to expand...

Decoding Process
With this in mind, Dolby Labs has come to the rescue with an enhancement to its original Dolby Pro-Logic technology that can create a "simulated" 5.1 channel surround environment from a 4-Channel Dolby Surround signal (dubbed Pro-Logic II). Although not a discrete format, such as Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS, in which each channel goes though its own encoding/decoding process, Pro Logic II makes an effective use of matrixing to deliver an adequate 5.1 representation of a film or music soundtrack. With advancements in technology since the original Pro-Logic scheme was developed over 10 years ago, channel separation is more distinct, giving Pro Logic II the character of a discrete 5.1 channel scheme, such as Dolby Digital 5.1.

http://hometheater.about.com/od/beforeyoubuy/a/surroundsound_4.htm


Many people have asked us about connecting a PC to a home theater system. It's not as easy as it sounds. For example, while many sound cards on the market can pass Dolby Digital and DTS "raw" signals for decoding by the receiver, most EAX/A3D surround games are only able to be output via the sound card's analogue outputs. Dolby Digital and DTS have both offered solutions to allow for a real-time, digital 5.1encoded signal from a PC to be made to your home theater system.
The DTS-610 product from Creative digitally connects your Media Center or standard PC'saudio to a home theater receiver via DTS Interactive technology. This is a real-tim encoding system that takes analogue 5.1 output from your sound card and converts itto a standard DTS signal. It is currently the only way to listen to DRM music from your PC to your home theater system with a digital connection (though it of course goes through an additional digital-to-analogue and analogue-to-digital conversion.


For Your Games


Using the DTS-610 allows the DTS Interactive encoder to turn any PC game (typically using EAX surround) into an interactive DTS gaming experience. Excepting Dolby Digital LIVE, previously, theonly way to get rich 5.1 surround out of PC games was to run 6 analogue cables into the 5.1 multi-channel inputs of a home theater receiver. The main problem with this was the fact that most receivers only have one set of multi-channel inputs and many times those are occupied with the 5.1 outputs of universal DVD players for supportof SACD and DVD-Audio.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/surround-sound/dts-interactive-technology

Sound that comes from behind you has a different audio characteristic than the audio that comes from in front of you. That's what enables your ears to tell the difference between sounds coming from behind you versus in front of you. What Dolby Headphone does is process the 5.1 (or 7.1) audio from it's source, and then apply filters to the sounds that simulate the way the pinna (the visible part of your ear) would alter the characteristics of the sound coming from behind you, and then plays this audio through a stereo headset. This is a clever technology.

Note that headsets themselves do not specifically support Dolby Headphone technology, it is their amplifier that does this processing. The only official equipment that makes use of Dolby Headphone technology is the Turtle Beach X4/X41's receiver, Astro MixAmp, Tritton AX 720 amp, and Logitech G35 audio processor. There are similar technologies from other companies. They may be better or worse than Dolby Headphone depending on the product.
Here's an awesome explanation of Dolby Headphone:


Dolby Headphones does not actually provide directional cues. It balances low intensity signals with high intensity signals making whats far away closer and whats closer farther being able to hear things that are there but that the human ear wouldn't normally hear with 2-channel stereo (e.g. being able to hear Rockets spawning from top Gold on Construct). Because of this, audio towards the end of the headphones' driver sounds louder and audio towards the center (where the signalis more concentrated) is lowered but still keeping the range of distance, thus hugging your ear and giving the illusion of 5.1. Thats why its called "simulated." This balancing of intensity displaces the intensity of IGDD cues in games placing them where they're not supposed to be making them inaccurate like I said.

http://forums.majorleaguegaming.com/topic/178690-headset-review-roundup/

You were saying
 
Last edited:
You quote things out of context very well.......:)

The Creative device you speak of does the EXACT same thing as Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect in the Creative Labs' sound card software. ASUS, Auzentech, and HTOmega all have similar software in their products as well.

That software is free and does the same thing as the device you continue referring to over and over again.
 
Last edited:
Spooony, it seems like you are referencing two different (actually three) things. Dobly Pro-Logic is used to expand a stereo signal to 5.1 - to take 2 channel CD music (for example) and output it to all 6 speakers of a 5.1 setup. Dolby Headphone is used to take a 5.1 channel signal and convert it into a stereo output (for headphones) in a way that allows the sound to mimic what you would hear from an actual 5.1 system. So they are solving two different problems - one where you have fewer channels than speakers, and one where you have more channels than speakers. Headphone amps (from a previous comment) simply amplify whatever signal they are sent to better drive high impedance headphones. Manufacturers could combine Dolby Headphone into a headphone amp, but they don't have to.
 
EarlKeim said:
You quote things out of context very well.......:)

The Creative device you speak of does the EXACT same thing as Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect in the Creative Labs' sound card software. ASUS, Auzentech, and HTOmega all have similar software in their products as well.

That software is free and does the same thing as the device you continue referring to over and over again.
Click to expand...

This. Also I think on the earlier X-Fi's and the Audigy Series, DDL is like $3-5 for licensing reasons. Still cheaper than a separate box.
 
I think we all realize this.

The Creative device that Spoony referenced is simply a long way around a very short task.
 
Spooony said:
Note that headsets themselves do not specifically support Dolby Headphone technology, it is their amplifier that does this processing
Click to expand...

i believe this is what is misleading you and it is, indeed, misleading. an amplifier, by definition, merely amplifies a signal - makes it greater in power, clarity, etc. a device which amplifies may also do other tasks (such as processing) but calling that device an amplifier is misleading. the device in the article you quoted is more commonly called a DAC (DACs do tend to amplify as well) and would definitely perform such processing.

a quick and dirty way to determine if a device is an amplifier or a DAC is - does it plug into USB or into the 3.5" port on the sound card? if it plugs into USB, it's getting a digital signal which needs to be converted into an analog signal - that's a DAC. if it plugs into the 3.5" the signal is already analog so it can only be amplified.
 
Dolby Headphone is nothing to do with amplification, it's the signal processing algorithm that takes 5.1 channels and mixes them into 2 headphone channels in a clever way that simulates 5.1, and it actually seems to work very well. I think on these cards it is actually handled by the CMI878x chip. My Inferno has an 8788 and no headphone amp onboard, but it does Dolby Headphone.

Dolby Digital Live is an encoder that takes 5.1 channel output from your PC (generally from a game), encodes it to Dolby Digital and passes it through SPDIF (coax or optical) to a Dolby Digital decoder (usually on a receiver) to be played out on your 5.1 system.

As for the audioholics article reposted above, they are just wrong. Dolby headphone is not related to headphone (or any other kind of) amplification. It's just a signal processing algorithm which takes place in the digital domain entirely.

Dustin
 
EarlKeim said:
You quote things out of context very well.......:)

The Creative device you speak of does the EXACT same thing as Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect in the Creative Labs' sound card software. ASUS, Auzentech, and HTOmega all have similar software in their products as well.

That software is free and does the same thing as the device you continue referring to over and over again.
Click to expand...

I'm not referring to the device. Read the subject name on top of the link. Dts Technology. Its nothing to do with the device. So you are admitting that no hardware acceleration has taken place its purely via software? Read the last one again. There might be other devices ALSO ........ which maybe better or worse.
Of course creative got it everyone has to pay them royalty to use it!!!!! Even Asus and those devices ontop which is doing it without the Software!!!!
 
Forceman said:
Spooony, it seems like you are referencing two different (actually three) things. Dobly Pro-Logic is used to expand a stereo signal to 5.1 - to take 2 channel CD music (for example) and output it to all 6 speakers of a 5.1 setup. Dolby Headphone is used to take a 5.1 channel signal and convert it into a stereo output (for headphones) in a way that allows the sound to mimic what you would hear from an actual 5.1 system. So they are solving two different problems - one where you have fewer channels than speakers, and one where you have more channels than speakers. Headphone amps (from a previous comment) simply amplify whatever signal they are sent to better drive high impedance headphones. Manufacturers could combine Dolby Headphone into a headphone amp, but they don't have to.
Click to expand...

I know its not the same thing. I posted that to explain the difference between the different kinds of Dolby you get. See that last post what. That's what a dolby amp means. That's what it means on soundcards aswell. It simulates the 5.1 on stereo speakers. ^as you can look at the person in question reply he thinks CS3d can upscale it to 5.1 and simulate 5.1 on stereo. Well dolby pro logic and Dts and dolby amp. yet he's saying CS3d is not dolby. Tell that to him not me.
 
Spooony said:
For cans the Xonar is bang for buck. The headphone amp job is basically to provide dolby for positional audio. That's about it. Creative rebranded it to CSS3d or something on their stuff but its plain old dolby faking surround on stereo.
Click to expand...

wrong

Spooony said:
I'm not referring to the device. Read the subject name on top of the link. Dts Technology. Its nothing to do with the device. So you are admitting that no hardware acceleration has taken place its purely via software? Read the last one again. There might be other devices ALSO ........ which maybe better or worse.
Of course creative got it everyone has to pay them royalty to use it!!!!! Even Asus and those devices ontop which is doing it without the Software!!!!
Click to expand...

your right.. lets re-read the SUBJECT TITLE

mrtheshaggy said:
I've been using on-board sound ever since my old audigy died. I use strictly headphones. I was shopping around newegg for a replacement and noticed that a $24.99 AR Asus Xonar card is specified to have a headphone amp: newegg link. Is that true? I thought the cards with headphone amps are well within the $100 range?

I'm not planning to spend any more than $50 on a card. If I can get one with a headphone amp for that low are there an recommendations you guys would be willing to offer me on the best pick?

Thanks
Click to expand...

EarlKeim said:
Spoony:

This is simply not true. The headphone amplifier provides proper dedicated amplication for headphones. It is not "for Dolby" as you continue to say. Dolby headphone is provided in the sound card software package just as CMSS-3D is in Creative's for positional audio.

Headphone amplifiers deliver a cleaner signal and the proper impedance to power demanding headphones. It has nothing to do with sound effects as you continue to say.

Digital audio converters are used to get the best music experience for headphones, but you will never see one say "Dolby" on it.
Click to expand...

what this guy said^ the xonar has a head phone amp... it dose just that, it amplifies the signal, REGARDLESS of weather or not the hardware or software is doing any sort up mixing, down mixing,tossing your salad... the amplifier has nothing to do with it, the card can do 5.1... but he is only looking at it in terms of headphone use. if he chooses to use a spatializer, then that is on him, it may provide a wider sounds stage, but he would still need a amp to hear the difference with large/high impedance cans
 
450 said:
CMSS-3D isn't made by Dolby, thats Creative's tech.
Click to expand...

meant they're paying royalties to dolby not creative. THX Trustudio Pro is, AFAIK, just a rebranded version of CMSS-3D (including CMSS-3D Headphone) with no alterations.

Well they can't go call it dolby now can they. Otherwise they have to pay or get sued.
 
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