HDTVs

[Hulk]

The more I read about them, the more confused I become.

What exactly is the order, from best to worst in terms of the picture?

LCD
Plasma
Projection
DLP

Also, Projections seem to be cheapest of them all, why?

 

[Techx]

try these forums which are dedicated to tv's.. there's a much greater wealth of info than you'll find here

http://www.avsforum.com
http://www.highdefforum.com/

as for me, i'll be getting the 42" sony a10 soon.. it's a lcd RP and has gotten many good reviews and is pretty cheap , waiting for it to go back on sale for around $1500.. any plasma that same size will be at least $2200-$2500 more or less.. bit too pricey for me.. as for dlp, blah I always see the rainbows and I've heard it lags with games so that's out of the question

 

[zoobaby]

Going to move this post to HTPC area, as some folks there can provide some good input.

Also the sites listed above are excellent.

 

[Abyss of Borg]

Well DLP and Projection have expensive bulps you have to replace sometime also they are down the line when it comes to gaming. LCDs are the best all around imo. Any Plasma below 50 inches isn't true HD also Plasmas have the blackest blacks. With projection it depends if you see a $400 one on newegg it's probably a business grade projector not meant for HD. Above 50 inches Plasma is great but you have some problems with burn in which is lesser of a problem with LCD. LCD is the best in my view in terms of bang for you buck.

 

[rayman2k2]

The more I read about them, the more confused I become.

What exactly is the order, from best to worst in terms of the picture?

LCD
Plasma
Projection
DLP

Also, Projections seem to be cheapest of them all, why?

LCD - Liquid Crystal Display. Ranges between 13" to 40" (and some bigger). The larger ones are more expensive compared to plasmas (generally) of the same size. Essentially, each pixel is comprised of three "light bulbs" colored Red, Green and Blue. They change hues to create the color of the pixel. Wall mountable.

Plasma - Ranges between 37"-100+". Best picture, IMHO, but only if you go with a reputable brand. Each pixel is comprised of three different gases, when current is passed through the gases, they give off light, creating the color of the pixel. Since the screen is glass on all plasma displays, you will get a glare so keep that in mind. Wall mountable.

Projection - Old tanks. Ranges between 42" to 71+". 200 pounds AT LEAST. Same as a regular CRT TV or Monitor, three color guns launching electrons at the screen. Yep you guessed it, each color gun is either Red, Green or Blue. Projection TV's launch the electrons at a mirror and then onto the screen.

DLP - Digital Light Projection. My favorite as I own one. A chip on the inside (by Texas Instruments) has a bunch of mirrors on it (upwards of 900,000). A light shines through a color wheel (coloring the light), and then on to the chip, which projects the light onto the screen. Each little mirror represents a pixel. There is a lightbulb in here, and they do go out, so heads up for that. Go with a reputable brand here, just my opinion.


There is also LCD projection where you have a lightbulb shine on a LCD screen, which is reflected on a mirror onto the screen. Only good brand here is sony imho.

Also, front projection is when you have those little projectors shining on a screen (you know, the ones in movie theaters, etc). They use LCD projection and DLP technologies, but you need to use them in dark rooms.

 

[rayman2k2]

Well DLP and Projection have expensive bulps you have to replace sometime also they are down the line when it comes to gaming. LCDs are the best all around imo. Any Plasma below 50 inches isn't true HD also Plasmas have the blackest blacks. With projection it depends if you see a $400 one on newegg it's probably a business grade projector not meant for HD. Above 50 inches Plasma is great but you have some problems with burn in which is lesser of a problem with LCD. LCD is the best in my view in terms of bang for you buck.

Depends on size for the LCD. A 40" LCD isn't worth the price IMHO.


And burn-in is a myth now, should it occur, there are ways to "un-burn" your screen, so don't let that be a deciding factor.

 

[SmurfALMIGHTY]

Theres also LCOS and the new sony plasmas that are based off LCOS.

 

[Bighitter]

Projection - Old tanks. Ranges between 42" to 71+". 200 pounds AT LEAST. Same as a regular CRT TV or Monitor, three color guns launching electrons at the screen. Yep you guessed it, each color gun is either Red, Green or Blue. Projection TV's launch the electrons at a mirror and then onto the screen.

DLP - Digital Light Projection. My favorite as I own one. A chip on the inside (by Texas Instruments) has a bunch of mirrors on it (upwards of 900,000). A light shines through a color wheel (coloring the light), and then on to the chip, which projects the light onto the screen. Each little mirror represents a pixel. There is a lightbulb in here, and they do go out, so heads up for that. Go with a reputable brand here, just my opinion.


There is also LCD projection where you have a lightbulb shine on a LCD screen, which is reflected on a mirror onto the screen. Only good brand here is sony imho.

Also, front projection is when you have those little projectors shining on a screen (you know, the ones in movie theaters, etc). They use LCD projection and DLP technologies, but you need to use them in dark rooms.

Ummm this is just wrong, while parts of it are correct it just isn't helpful as it provides too much mis-information.

First off there are 2 types of projection, either front or rear. Secondly there is a front and rear projection product for each of the technologies listed except for Plasma, which is only direct view / flat panel. DLP can only be projection as it is a mirror based technologies it projects its reflection onto a either a larger mirror in rear projection or through a lense in front projection. LCD can be direct view as in the flat panel units or it can be projected, either front or rear. And the big old tanks you refer to are CRT units which can be direct view as in the traditional TV everyone grew up with or projected either front or rear.

As was also stated Sony's SXRD units and also JVC's D-ILA units are based off of LCOS. Each technology has its pros and cons that have to be weighed depending on the manner in which you plan to use the tv and where it will installed.

My personal preference is CRT followed by DLP, Plasma and then LCD. Though the differences between them are getting smaller and smaller

 

[tek538]

Have any of you guys had any experiance with DVI to HDMI cables, what kind of picture/res should I expect with this type of connection (pc to dlp hdtv)? Here's a link to the cable..

http://store.yahoo.com/videoware/dvihdmi2.html

Thanks you guys rule, House in HD last night was pretty bad ass btw

 

[movax]

IIRC, DVI and HDMI are identical except for the fact that HDMI 1. Supports a variety of DRM technologies, and 2. can carry an audio signal as well (this one is a really fuzzy memory, correct me if I'm wrong). I'm dead sure on #1 though, a lot of devices in the future won't let you get away without HDMI.

 

[tek538]

Thanks. I have another question.. I know a while back when hdtvs first started puting DVI connectors on the back of them the pc resolution support was pretty crappy. I hooked up my pc at the time to one through DVI and the only res I could get was 640x480. Now that I own a newer gen hdtv (Samsung 50" dlp) with a stated supported res of 1280x768, would I be able to use a DVI to HDMI cable to attain this resolution? If not then how do you guys have your pc hooked up to your tv?

 

[Jpitzo]

IIRC, DVI and HDMI are identical except for the fact that HDMI 1. Supports a variety of DRM technologies, and 2. can carry an audio signal as well (this one is a really fuzzy memory, correct me if I'm wrong). I'm dead sure on #1 though, a lot of devices in the future won't let you get away without HDMI.

yes, HDMI is essentially DVI with digital audio. HDCP is what you're thinking of on point number one....HDMI works with HDCP as most schemes I heard involve a high frequency ( 100KHz) watermark embedded in copywrited material.

...i think

 

[rayman2k2]

Ummm this is just wrong, while parts of it are correct it just isn't helpful as it provides too much mis-information.

First off there are 2 types of projection, either front or rear. Secondly there is a front and rear projection product for each of the technologies listed except for Plasma, which is only direct view / flat panel. DLP can only be projection as it is a mirror based technologies it projects its reflection onto a either a larger mirror in rear projection or through a lense in front projection. LCD can be direct view as in the flat panel units or it can be projected, either front or rear. And the big old tanks you refer to are CRT units which can be direct view as in the traditional TV everyone grew up with or projected either front or rear.

As was also stated Sony's SXRD units and also JVC's D-ILA units are based off of LCOS. Each technology has its pros and cons that have to be weighed depending on the manner in which you plan to use the tv and where it will installed.

My personal preference is CRT followed by DLP, Plasma and then LCD. Though the differences between them are getting smaller and smaller

Mis-information? Are you a fucking douche? You seriously restated what I said. Not only that, but you got a few things wrong.

First off there are 2 types of projection, either front or rear.

Which I stated. The longer paragraphs talked about rear projection televisions. I then talked about front projections later on.

Secondly there is a front and rear projection product for each of the technologies listed except for Plasma,

Which I said. Longer paragraphs talked about rear projection, and then talked about front projos later on. Why would I want to talk about Front Projection tv's when he doesn't want one?

DLP can only be projection as it is a mirror based technologies it projects its reflection onto a either a larger mirror in rear projection or through a lense in front projection.

Where did I say DLP cannot be a projection? I even said what DLP stood for. digital light PROJECTION. I talked about front projos in the small blurb at the end.

LCD can be direct view as in the flat panel units or it can be projected, either front or rear.

Again, I said that too.

And the big old tanks you refer to are CRT units which can be direct view as in the traditional TV everyone grew up with or projected either front or rear.

I said everything except for the front projo CRT units. You wanna know why? They suck.

As was also stated Sony's SXRD units and also JVC's D-ILA units are based off of LCOS. Each technology has its pros and cons that have to be weighed depending on the manner in which you plan to use the tv and where it will installed.

Where did I say that? You wanna know what D-ILA is? It's three DLP chips in one tv, one for each color. SXRD units are essentially projection LCD units.

Why would I confuse him with all this stuff when I am trying to help him understand the basics of televisions?

My personal preference is CRT followed by DLP, Plasma and then LCD. Though the differences between them are getting smaller and smaller

For me: Plasma > DLP > LCD > > > > > > > > shit > CRT




How is what I said misinformation, when it was exactly what you said?

And don't try to school me, I have been selling TV's for the past two years using that information above. I don't just deal with you average smucks, but I deal with tech-heads too. I know what I am talking about - and since you pretty much quoted me verbatim, you do too

 

[rayman2k2]

IIRC, DVI and HDMI are identical except for the fact that HDMI 1. Supports a variety of DRM technologies, and 2. can carry an audio signal as well (this one is a really fuzzy memory, correct me if I'm wrong). I'm dead sure on #1 though, a lot of devices in the future won't let you get away without HDMI.

This is true. Both of them. What is great about HDMI is that it is a self-expanding cable since it's bandwidth limit is pretty damn high. That way, HDMI will be able to carry blu-ray and HD-DVD signals...


DVI cables will be able to, however, you wont clear the DRM requirements...

 

[rayman2k2]

Thanks. I have another question.. I know a while back when hdtvs first started puting DVI connectors on the back of them the pc resolution support was pretty crappy. I hooked up my pc at the time to one through DVI and the only res I could get was 640x480. Now that I own a newer gen hdtv (Samsung 50" dlp) with a stated supported res of 1280x768, would I be able to use a DVI to HDMI cable to attain this resolution? If not then how do you guys have your pc hooked up to your tv?

I use a DVI to HDMI cable. It should be able to work...

 

[Bighitter]

First sorry to the OP for HiJacking your thread.

Mis-information? Are you a fucking douche? You seriously restated what I said. Not only that, but you got a few things wrong.

I think you took the last part of my post as an attack against you which it was not intended to be, I was simply trying to organize the facts in a more logical fasion, sorry if it offended you.

First off I never said EVERYTHING you said was wrong infact I said

Ummm this is just wrong, while parts of it are correct it just isn't helpful as it provides too much mis-information.

Ok so maybe mis-information is a little harsh how about disjointed information as you skip from topic to topic and leave out specific technology names when your talking about 1 and lump it all together. You said projection and then the entire paragraph is about CRT Rear Projection units. The lack of clarification of your presentation of the facts is what my problem was with your post.

Which I stated. The longer paragraphs talked about rear projection televisions. I then talked about front projections later on.

Which I said. Longer paragraphs talked about rear projection, and then talked about front projos later on. Why would I want to talk about Front Projection tv's when he doesn't want one?

Again it was the way you presented the information not specifically the infromation your gave. I was just giving a more organized revision of it.

Where did I say DLP cannot be a projection? I even said what DLP stood for. digital light PROJECTION. I talked about front projos in the small blurb at the end.

The point I was making is that at first glance and for someone who doesn't know any better it would like your saying LCD is the only small front projectors available. And for the record I never said you said that, I was continuing with my post of clarifying everything, you shouldn't get so bent out of shape unless your insecure about your knowledge of the products, sorry if it bothers you.

Again, I said that too.

Never said you didn't

I said everything except for the front projo CRT units. You wanna know why? They suck.

Heh this obviously shows your lack of experience with a properly setup CRT projector. I will put my old shit project as you claim against anything out there right now.

Where did I say that? You wanna know what D-ILA is? It's three DLP chips in one tv, one for each color. SXRD units are essentially projection LCD units.

'

Actually they are both LCOS based technologies, don't believe me go directly to JVC's main page on D-ILA right here

Why would I confuse him with all this stuff when I am trying to help him understand the basics of televisions?

That's my point, the way you presented the "facts" are more my beef with what you said than the actual content of the post.

For me: Plasma > DLP > LCD > > > > > > > > shit > CRT

Again personal preferance but it also shows your lack of experience with a properly setup unit.

How is what I said misinformation, when it was exactly what you said?

If I type of bunch of facts in a messed up disjointed order or leave parts of the facts out it can quickly become something that is no longer a fact.

And don't try to school me, I have been selling TV's for the past two years using that information above. I don't just deal with you average smucks, but I deal with tech-heads too. I know what I am talking about - and since you pretty much quoted me verbatim, you do too

Well good for you, I have been installing and engineering fully integrated systems for the past 2 years and I deal with the worst of the bunch, people with too much money and not enough time nor care to worry about the technology other than saying I want the best, brightest, loudest, etc...

 

[Loki008]

Again personal preferance but it also shows your lack of experience with a properly setup unit.

I am going to agree here as well. CRT displays offer some of the best picture quality, their main drawback is their weight. As for DLP vs LCD that comes down to personal choice. Many current LCD displays are caught up to their DLP counterparts in the same price range and many DLP units can cause some people to see rainbow effects while watching them which can be quite distracting. Also LCD technology typically has better color saturation. brightness and sharpness. Where as DLP is regarded to have better contrast. As for sony being the only good projector in your eyes, you clearly havent tried many other brands. for example Sanyo makes some excelent projectors and are often rated equal or higher than sony.

 

[SB22]

Just to add in another fact when considering TV's:

DLP/LCD Projection TV's don't have the greatest viewing angles (how far to the right/left or up/down you can be standing in reference to the TV). That is the main downfall of DLP/LCD Projection units other than their size. If you look at a Plasma or a good LCD flatscreen, you can almost stand 180 degrees before noticing much distortion in picture colors.

In my opinion Plasma > LCD > CRT> DLP/LCD Projection

I ranked Plasma over LCD due to significant price differences in the larger screens. CRT and DLP/LCD are more tied in my opinion, I really wouldn't want either due to the amount of space they consume. DLP/LCD Projection units have the worst picture in my opinion (out of the types of HDTV's I listed) as well. A HDTV CRT monitor gives a great picture, but I believe they top out somewhere between 36-40". They're also big and heavy too.

This is all my opinion, you may choose different traits while choosing a TV, but this is what I've discovered for myself after browsing through hundreds of different TV's. Also, in any case, you will find a lot of horrible TV's in the lower price range. I'm sort of partial to the Pioneer Elite Plasma's, they're absolutely beautiful.

 

[Lastblade]

I would add LCOS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) Rear Projection TV here, since I got one

There are 2 major brands that make LCOS, they are Sony (SXRD) and JVC (HD-iLA). I own the first version of the JVC's HDiLA, and for the money, it can't be beat (bought it in late 2004 for $2500, when DLP/LCD RPTV cost over $3000 for a similarly sized one, mine is 52"). The color is very very good, and the pixel spacing is tighter than LCD RPTV (so no screen door effects that is common with LCD technology). Also, it does not have a color wheel so no rainbow artifacts like DLP (which I strongly considered).

The downside is that the blacks are not as inky as DLP, but generally, the PQ is better than a LCD RPTV. The latest 1080p version of LCOS from both Sony and JVC are getting incredible reviews, so if I were to shop for one today, I would put those 2 on top of the list. In fact, go pick up a copy of the current issue of The Perfect Vision magazine and read the review on the JVC 56" HDiLA set.

And my RPTV's viewing angle is very nice, it is much wider than the old projection sets, I can sit off axis quite extreme and still get a good picture. And even though they are not slim profile like LCD/Plasmas, they are actually lighter!

 

[Bighitter]

Ok just to add even more confusion to thread. I got to install my first 3 chip DLP projection unit this past week My god the color fidelity was amazing out of the box and the black level was great. The difference between a single and three chip design is without a doubt worth the cost increase. While the unit was not cheap by any means when you have a very good theater to start with and the owner walks in after setup and the first words out of his mouth are "Holy Christ do you see that picture?!?!" You know you have a good product then.