HDCP

[PezzyDude]

Hi all.

I recently installed a TV tuner card (the Hauppauge Colossus). I've had previous TV tuner cards, but this one is a fairly new release on the market as of this writing, and this PCI-e card has both HDMI and component inputs.

I have an HD receiver from DirecTV, and it can output the signal through both HDMI and component cables. Now.....something many of you probably already know, but I myself only found out recently, is that the data that's sent through an HDMI cable is encrypted with HDCP.

Even though my TV tuner card has an HDMI input, this would be for, say, something like a camera that has an HDMI output that you want to upload its content in through the card. But, if you try to input an HDMI cable coming from, say, a DirecTV HD receiver........then you will receive no image on-screen because it's encrypted.

My Samsung monitor, besides being a monitor in-and-of-itself, is also a TV tuner. If I want, I can plug the HDMI cable from my DirecTV HD receiver directly into the monitor and watch television that way (the monitor is HD compliant and can complete the "handshake" for HDCP decryption).

But if I put the HDMI cable directly to the TV tuner card, it cannot produce the image.

If I use the component cables, then no problem, I can watch TV through the card and record shows with it also.

Now.....if what I'm about to inquire or ask about is considered "illegal", then I'll understand if this post gets locked or deleted.

I've done some searching on the 'Net, and evidentially there are things out there termed "HDCP strippers"; it seems to be a gray area as to whether they are illegal or not.

Then I also came across an article that says an HDCP "master key" was released. If you go to this link....

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/hdcp-master-key-supposedly-released-unlocks-hdtv-copy-protect/

....and then scroll down a bit, someone posted a forty times forty element matrix of fifty-six bit hexadecimal numbers. I can't really make heads or tails of what you're supposed to do with all of that.

Then there's even this link....

http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~rob/hdcp.html

.....from some people from SUNY with an encryption/ decryption code in a download.

I'd just like to be able to watch high definition content on my PC via an HDMI cable from my DirecTV HD receiver and record it onto my hard drive if I want to; I'm not out to rip anyone off.

Does anybody know if it's possible to watch HD content through an HDMI cable through a TV tuner card? I'd rather not invest in another piece of hardware (like these HDCP "stripper" boxes I've read about). I'd rather go a "software" route. Or, those links I provided with that matrix of numbers/ letters or that other link with that download.

Right now I'm using the component connection from my DirecTV HD receiver to my TV tuner card (along with two RCA plugs to carry the audio signal). It's a nice picture and all, but, it'd sure be nice to do it all through just one HDMI cable!!!

And like I mentioned earlier, if what I'm mentioning here is "illegal", then I'll understand if this post is locked/ deleted.

But thanks for reading and any possible info.............
Pez

 

[danman]

No.

 

[Bighitter]

No its not possible currently and yes the HDCP strippers are technically illegal as they break encryption thus violating the DMCA.

 

[danman]

Well not true. The DMCA only applies to the US and I believe they are sold overseas.

 

[CrimandEvil]

Well not true. The DMCA only applies to the US and I believe they are sold overseas.

And yet this guy lives in the US which makes it illegal which also means it's also against forum rules here too.

So, no. The only way to do what you want to do is to use component out from your STB to the tuner.

 

[myurkus]

Your post seems to be a little confusing. However, on first glance it appears that you are incorrectly setting up your system. As far as legality - subscribed material that is watched for home is still legal.

For instance, AnyDVD (the program for stripping out all copy protection on source discs) is legal in the United States.

I will respond more in a little bit. I just wanted to make sure this response is seen before anyone too hastily reports the legality of something that may be ok. (LOL and it's not like we are a bunch of perfect angels on this site, doing everything strictly by the book.

MikeY
(cont'd...

 

[Tak Ne]

Even if the DMCA didn't make it illegal, a device that strips HDCP from HDMI would violate the DCP LLC's T&C/license.

Its been a while since the HDCP master keys were leaked and there still hasn't been any hardware devices using it.

Also, unless i'm misreading it, you're trying to input HDMI to a device designed to output HDMI.

 

[myurkus]

I think I am starting to understand your situation. In my case, DHCP crippled my desire to play lossless formats (such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA) when using something within the HTPC (such as a Blu-Ray burner) as the source. Without PAP (“Protected Audio Path,”) HDCP drops the lossless HD audio and down samples to DVD-style audio.
Our fundamental problem seems to be parallel: while breaking DHCP rules, I am losing HQ audio, whereas you are losing HQ video.
I hated industry forever for making this so difficult, but then I started working in the software engineering field …wow….the public does not even know the half of how bad the problem is.
Tell me if I am wrong, but from your post it looks like this is…
YOUR SETUP:


[DirectTV STB/Receiver]= =>{HDMI} ==>=| HTPC (Includes new Tuner Card) | v
[Monitor/TV ]<==<==<==<=<{HDMI}<==<=|----------------------------------------------- |^


Even I am only partially incorrect, this will not work! Keep in mind that HDCP was designed at the very lowest level in order to STOP people from copying/stealing copyrighted stuff…) For years they failed – DVD’s for instance are crippled many levels deep; however, after millions of dollars spent by the brightest minds in the world, an 11-th grader broke the DVD encryption scheme and lost countless people billions (that’s right Billions with a “B!”) This time, not wanting that to happen again, they figured, well if we embed it into the HDMI (the most advanced) cable, then no software can break it. Well, it worked…for about 6 months!!! Still, it is MUCH more secure than DVD’s and at least makes it difficult for crooks. However, for every frustrated crook, there are millions, if not billions of us that are critically in trouble because of these “quirks.”(LOL can you tell I am a software engineer that was laid off a few months ago…heh I guess I’m turning bitter!)

But here is what it comes down to: they ABSOLUTELY do not want you to copy anything (aside from personal camcorder footage.) The reason is simple – back in the days of L/R RCA jacks and grainy VHS tapes, the quality was so poor that the bootleg market hardly threatened the MPAA and others. However, now an average person with some technical skill and a decent computer can now copy a movie in as good (if not better) quality. That is why you can copy perfectly through composite, component, and headphone I/O, but not via the full-quality bus.

Anyway, I am going to stop right here for now (I also want to see how well that diagram looks when posted.) But please get in touch – basically I am bored and am looking for ways to be sharp. Plus…I am pretty sure I can fix your problem. (Did you hear me mention AnyDVD? Look it up – I was so shocked to see it was legal that I did some research and talked so some friends’ lawyers: Sure enough, it is legal as of now.

But before I continue, I want to find out if I am way out. If I am on the right track, I can already think of at least two ways to make this work the way you want it to work (without breaking the law in fact!!!) (For instance, one can abide by HDCP rules if oneanalyzes the audio signal first, and THEN the video signal...again I can explain more later.)

Hope to hear from you---at least to hear how it is going…
Mike

 

[Tak Ne]

I doubt what you want to do can be done.

Its unlikely that a HDMI output device would have the HDCP Sink hardware needed to input a signal as it would needlessly add cost & complexity to components.

HDCP via HDMI is done in hardware not software so you'd have to create a HDMI/HDCP Repeater box to intercept the signals to strip out the encryption. Now that the master keys have been leaked it would be possible to create a device that could never be blocked as new keys could always be generated. Anyone creating such a device would find Intel blocking them at every turn. Import or sale of such a device would be illegal.

Even if you could remove the HDCP, the only HDMI input PC component I ever saw was an Asus Xonar sound card that added audio to the pass-thru video signal.

 

[Activate: AMD]

Even if you could remove the HDCP, the only HDMI input PC component I ever saw was an Asus Xonar sound card that added audio to the pass-thru video signal.

The hauppaugue colossus is effectively an internal version of their HD-PVR. The purpose is to act as a way to control/record STB streams with a computer, so I do believe it has an HDMI in for unencrypted streams. unfortunately encrypted streams are still encrypted at a hardware level, which is the crux of OP's issue. Frankly, the whole thing totally sucks becuase HDCP handshake issues comprise 99.999% of my regular problems with my HTPC

the the OP:
The only real option for you is to use the component inputs along with whatever audio output you can use from the STB. This is probably optical output, so you need an optical input as well. No need to worry about the limited audio bandwith (aka no lossless audio) since HDTV streams are usually DD. I know its an annoying, pointless, artificial, bullsh** limitation, but thats what these content providers have saddled us with, and until they wake up, there isn't likely to be an easy solution for your problem. Isn't it sad that the easiest way to do exactly what you want with what you actually pay for is to just pirate a copy?

 

[PezzyDude]

Hi all; thanks for all of your replies.

Especially you, myurkus!!

Tak Ne: You mentioned in your post something about, "...you're trying to input HDMI to a device designed to output HDMI.

Here's a link to the Colossus card I have:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_colossus.html

If you click on the "Specs and System requirements" tab and scroll down, you'll see that this card has an HDMI input...not output.

myurkus: From the little graphic/ image that you drew.....I think I understand what you think I have. Let me give it a shot.

Here's what my system setup is as of right now:

DirecTV STB/ HD Receiver --> Component cables --> Colossus TV Tuner card --> nVidia GeForce GTX 470 graphics card --> HDMI cable --> Samsung HD monitor

What I'd like to do is replace the Component cables in that setup with an HDMI cable coming from the STB to the Colosssus card.

I did give it a shot once (HDMI cable from the STB to the Colossus card), just to see if it would work, but I got a "black screen" when I launched the WinTV 7 software that came with the Colossus card.

When I switched it back to the Component cable hookup, everything was fine.

So, I suppose the Colossus card doesn't have the needed hardware piece to complete the HDCP "handshake".

Tak Ne: I see you're aware of the leaked HDCP master keys, but.....I don't think there's a way for any piece of hardware to use it yet (like the Colossus card).

And myurkus: You say that you're pretty sure you can "fix my problem", and that you can think of at least "two ways" to make it work: I'm all ears!!!

I'm not looking to break any major laws here. If I want, I can run an HDMI cable right from my DirecTV HD STB to my monitor and watch TV that way......but I'd rather run the connection to my Colossus card and launch some software and watch TV that way; but, I can't run an HDMI cable from my STB to my Colossus card because of the HDCP encryption; the Colossus card hardware can't complete the "handshake".

If you go to that Colossus link I provided under the "Specs" tab, you'll see that it says "HDMI input (Note: for use with un-encrypted HDMI video sources)".

I knew this ahead of time, that I wouldn't be able to connect my STB directly to the Colossus card via HDMI because of HDCP encryption, but I just thought there was some kind of work-a-round; hence, my coming here to this forum.........

So myurkus: if you know at least two ways to fix my problem.....lay it on me!!

Thanks for the replies everyone,
Pez

 

[CrimandEvil]

There's no work around, I have no idea what Myurkus means but he hardly has an idea what he's talking about judging by his comments.

 

[d-dawg]

I'd just like to be able to watch high definition content on my PC via an HDMI cable from my DirecTV HD receiver and record it onto my hard drive if I want to....Does anybody know if it's possible to watch HD content through an HDMI cable through a TV tuner card?

This is possible, but not *quite* in the configuration you are looking for. The Cables Unlimited AUD-2362 (~50$) takes both an HDMI and optical input and outputs an HDCP free signal via HDMI. In my configuration I have the HDMI output from the AUD-2362 going to an the Blackmagic Intensity Pro (130$ on eBay).

I suspect that a tuner card which has an HDMI input could be substituted for the BMIP and you could achieve the same result.

I'd rather not invest in another piece of hardware (like these HDCP "stripper" boxes I've read about). I'd rather go a "software" route.

I looked hard to find an software solution to the HDCP problem but I didn't quite find what I was looking for. I simply wanted to watch HDTV on my PC - capturing and recording wasn't a priority for me. The software solutions I found didn't allow me to watch HDTV in real time without recording.

I have been using (VirtualDub) to watch the HDMI stream from my HDSTB, which can record the HD stream to your hard drive if that is important for you.

On YouTube there are quite a few guys using the AUD-2362 (and other similar DVI-to-HDMI converters) to capture and record PS3 gameplay. The setup I have is exactly the same except, of course, the source is my HDSTB rather than the PS3.

 

[The Lurker]

Monoprice used to sell the boxes that would take in HDMI and output in Component, VGA or DVI a completely HDCP free signal.

I bought one from them last year because my Plasma circa 2002 has no HDMI or DVI. Just component and vga and I want to watch high def without having to buy a new TV. I just looked on monoprices site and they dont have them anymore, DUN DUN DUN.

HA HA Google Cached pages are awesome.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ch.asp?keyword=8126+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Best thing is it outputs in whatever resolution you want and even passes EDID info. The last part is useless for me as my plasma is so damn old it passes WRONG EDID info for its panel. Long story short, given the amount of time wasted and sleep lost configuring it to work right I should have just bought a new TV. But I got it down to a science now.