HDCP not being adopted by Studios ... yet

wonkman

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Engadget

First was Sony Studios and now Universal.

"Add Universal to the list of studios that won't downsample content for owners of non-HDMI HD sets."

Studios are NOT embracing HDCP or resolution downsampling over analog connections for HD content for now.

If you're considering a new monitor and want to watch HD on it, this would suggest that HDCP and digital connections are not of immediate importance. At least not until a significant portion of the market has monitors/TVs with these connections (which could be years).
 

Tutelary

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I was initially worried about the ICT, but as soon as Sony and Disney announced their intentions it was pretty clear that the whole downsampling business would collapse for at least several years.
Yay for us, the consumer!
:D
 

UnknownSouljer

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Tutelary said:
I was initially worried about the ICT, but as soon as Sony and Disney announced their intentions it was pretty clear that the whole downsampling business would collapse for at least several years.
Yay for us, the consumer!
:D

Well the strategy could be adoption by a reasonable amount of users, and then after a few years lock everything down.

Sort of a: "Lure them in, and then lock 'em in" sort of strategy. It's obvious that HDCP and other technologies will fail if consumers don't adopt them, but if consumers adopt them and then HDCP is implimented it leaves a lot in a sticky situation (and for the companies it will hopefully fuel more adoption).
 

Tutelary

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I've heard a shift to hdcp will start in 2011, which is more than reasonable. I dont doubt its coming, but it WAS coming far too soon, and people just had no ability to be ready whatsoever, that is now effectively changed. I'm sure its a "lure them in" tactic, but I dont intend to be left out in the cold anyway, so oh well :p

people may as well get used to the idea of strict content protection, its not going away.
 

wonkman

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There's no "luring" required. By 2011 (2007 actually) all "HD Ready" monitors sold are REQUIRED by law to have HDCP. As a consumer, you will not have a choice. If you have HDMI, you already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there.

When there is a critical mass of HDTV users with HDCP, computer hardware manufactures will offer HDCP within HDMI to compete with one another. Fortunately it seems like the entertainment industry realizes this is going to take several years before these restrictions can be deployed on HD media.
 

Tutelary

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wonkman said:
There's no "luring" required. By 2011 (2007 actually) all "HD Ready" monitors sold are REQUIRED by law to have HDCP. As a consumer, you will not have a choice. If you have HDMI, you already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there.

When there is a critical mass of HDTV users with HDCP, computer hardware manufactures will offer HDCP within HDMI to compete with one another. Fortunately it seems like the entertainment industry realizes this is going to take several years before these restrictions can be deployed on HD media.

wrong. You can easily have hdmi which is not HDCP, mine for example is not. I think you are confusing the industry conforming to broadcast flags of various types to being hdcp, there is a difference. Its not just early adopters with component in only who are screwed.
 

wonkman

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Tutelary said:
wrong. You can easily have hdmi which is not HDCP, mine for example is not. I think you are confusing the industry conforming to broadcast flags of various types to being hdcp, there is a difference. Its not just early adopters with component in only who are screwed.

You can always count on a technocrat to point out your errors of omission.

It could be that you don't have HDCP but this is what I found:

"HDCP is not a strict requirement of the HDMI standard, though all HDMI implementations on the market feature HDCP. HDMI and HDCP are two distinctly separate standards, owned by separate governing entities. "

CompotechArticle.pdf

Actually in a technical sense you may be correct to say HDCP is not a requirement of the HDMI standard, but in a legal and practical sense you are oh so very wrong:

"The FCC has mandated that after July 1, 2005, all "Digital Cable-Ready" TVs sold in the United States with screen sizes 36 inches and above, and 50 percent of those with screen sizes 25 to 35 inches, must feature an HDMI-HDCP or a DVI-HDCP input, and that all HD set-top boxes offered by cable providers must feature an HDMI or DVI output.

In addition, the DVD Copy Control Association has established HDMI as an approved digital output for DVD players playing CSS-protected content at resolutions higher than 480p/576p. U.S. cable industry association CableLabs also requires that all OpenCable HD STBs must have HDMI-HDCP or DVI-HDCP outputs, and satellite operators DIRECTV and EchoStar require HDMI-HDCP or DVI-HDCP on all HD STBs. In addition, the European HDTV Forum recommends an HDCP-compliant HD digital interface, such as HDMI-HDCP or DVI-HDCP, be provided on both HD integrated receiver decoders and HD displays.

www.HDMI.org


July 1, 2005 -

100% of all 36" and above "Digital Cable-Ready" displays sold must be HDMI/HDCP or DVI/HCCP compliant
50% of all 25"-35" "Digital Cable-Ready" displays sold must be HDMI/HDCP or DVI/HDCP compliant

By mid-2007 ALL "Digital Cable-Ready" displays must have HDMI/HDCP or DVI/HDCP.

My point is, that you don't have a choice. No 'luring' involved. You don't have to adopt HDCP, it's being mandated by the Federal Government. By 2007, if you buy a "Digital Cable-Ready" display, it WILL have HDCP.

EDIT: Fixed link
 

Tutelary

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which doesnt change the fact that people with hdmi 1.1 spec sets are NOT necessarily hdcp compliant, and you are most certainly not compliant with dvi. You can argue all day and night that yes, its a digital connection and it should be, but hollywood is forcing the consumer to sit and spin. Perhaps you should call sony and cite these regulations to them, right?

"You can always count on a technocrat to point out your errors of omission."

"If you have HDMI, you already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there."

Your statements are contradicted by your own proof. 2007 might be around the corner, and sure, manufacturers are actually starting to adopt hdcp hdmi ready sets as required, but you can easily *already have hdmi* and still not meet hdcp standards.
 

wonkman

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Tutelary said:
which doesnt change the fact that people with hdmi 1.1 spec sets are NOT necessarily hdcp compliant, and you are most certainly not compliant with dvi. You can argue all day and night that yes, its a digital connection and it should be, but hollywood is forcing the consumer to sit and spin. Perhaps you should call sony and cite these regulations to them, right?

"You can always count on a technocrat to point out your errors of omission."

"If you have HDMI, you already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there."

Your statements are contradicted by your own proof. 2007 might be around the corner, and sure, manufacturers are actually starting to adopt hdcp hdmi ready sets as required, but you can easily *already have hdmi* and still not meet hdcp standards.

I'm going to post as clearly as possible:

You may have some funky non-HDCP compliant HDMI connection. I don't know. I said HDCP was not a technical requirement of the HDMI standard. Although I take you at your word that you seem to have located a model without HDCP on the HDMI from a manufacturer too cheap to pay the license fee, other sources like the one cited above indicate that all market implimentations of HDMI have HDCP. You've seem to have located the rare gem that doesn't have it. Who care's? I've tried to offer at least some support that HDMI, BY PRACTICE NOT STANDARD, includes HDCP but you've offered nothing but ' I don't have it'. And it's common knowledge that most DVI connections do not include HDCP so why bother to bring that up?.

Ok, now get ready to focus, here it comes. It's the windup, and the pitch...

Here's the point: HDCP is Federally Mandated for all Digital TV displays as of 2007. The time schedule may change to accommodate manufacturers but HDCP is coming on ALL digital connections (DVI and HDMI).

Whether you want to boycott "Hollywood", or organize a Washington rally, or write your senator, or just sit in a corner and pout, the HDCP standard will still be on all digital TVs. By LAW. No consumer acceptance required.

The whole point of the thread is that "Hollywood" seems ready to wait until most people have HDCP, whether they know it or not, before they deploy the HD copy protections.

Now if you think I want to hear more about your HDMI 1.1 connection or your ethical objection to copyright protection .... answer
 

Tutelary

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wonkman said:
I'm going to post as clearly as possible:

You may have some funky non-HDCP compliant HDMI connection. I don't know. I said HDCP was not a technical requirement of the HDMI standard. Although I take you at your word that you seem to have located a model without HDCP on the HDMI from a manufacturer too cheap to pay the license fee, other sources like the one cited above indicate that all market implimentations of HDMI have HDCP. You've seem to have located the rare gem that doesn't have it. Who care's? I've tried to offer at least some support that HDMI, BY PRACTICE NOT STANDARD, includes HDCP but you've offered nothing but ' I don't have it'. And it's common knowledge that most DVI connections do not include HDCP so why bother to bring that up?.

Ok, now get ready to focus, here it comes. It's the windup, and the pitch...

Here's the point: HDCP is Federally Mandated for all Digital TV displays as of 2007. The time schedule may change to accommodate manufacturers but HDCP is coming on ALL digital connections (DVI and HDMI).

Whether you want to boycott "Hollywood", or organize a Washington rally, or write your senator, or just sit in a corner and pout, the HDCP standard will still be on all digital TVs. By LAW. No consumer acceptance required.

The whole point of the thread is that "Hollywood" seems ready to wait until most people have HDCP, whether they know it or not, before they deploy the HD copy protections.

Now if you think I want to hear more about your HDMI 1.1 connection or your ethical objection to copyright protection .... answer


No, the point is you were saying all hdmi sets have hdcp by default WHEN ITS NOT TRUE. You can cover it in all the BS you want, you were whats called: WRONG. Future implementation dates dont matter a rats ass to people who are STILL buying current hdmi enabled sets that arent hdcp complaint. If you think its "rare" you are obviously clueless.

FYI: I never mentioned having any objection to copy protection, dont read in what isnt there. I never mentioned boycotting anyone, writing my senator or anything else.

". Although I take you at your word that you seem to have located a model without HDCP on the HDMI from a manufacturer too cheap to pay the license fee"

ahahaha. I have a SONY tv. If anyone is behind HDCP its SONY. My KD-34XBR960 was widely regarded as the top end crt on the market when purchased, and its not even a year and a half old. The fact is that most 1.1 hdmi sets are NOT hdcp compliant, and the complaint sets have just started coming to market. Again: You were WRONG.

Either way, the arguement is moot as the HDMI standard is still evolving on its way to 1.3
while you will have hdcp compatibility with some currently shipping and soon to be shipping sets, you still wont have the fullest range of *feature* compatibility until the finalized standard ( I believe 1.3 was supposed to be that).
I believe the big feature of 1.3 is supposed to be full multichannel uncompressed digital audio, something 1.2a has started on. Perhaps someone will know more, I dont keep up with that market very much.

The HDMI 1.0 specification was released in December 2002.
The HDMI 1.1 specification was released in May 2004.
The HDMI 1.2 specification was released in August of 2005.
The HDMI 1.2a specification was released in December of 2005.
 

wonkman

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Tutelary said:
No, the point is you were saying all hdmi sets have hdcp by default WHEN ITS NOT TRUE.

What is your major malfunction? I conceded the point that there may be non-HDCP HDMI out there EVEN if you provided NOTHING to back it up. The reason I conceded is not because of your overwhelming evidence and persuasive argument, but because I don't care about the issue. Get it! It's not relevant to the main point I was making. Try desperately to get that notion into the deep recesses of your cranium. Let me help. Here's the whole paragraph that I wrote:

"There's no "luring" required. By 2011 (2007 actually) all "HD Ready" monitors sold are REQUIRED by law to have HDCP. As a consumer, you will not have a choice. If you have HDMI, you already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there."

Now, work with me on this... can you see the major point being made here? It's that HDCP is coming and most consumers will not even know it's there.

BOOM!

Now watch this linguistic feat. I'm going to add one word that will satisfy your fascination with the HDMI/HDCP issue WITHOUT CHANGING THE POINT OF THE PARAGRAPH:

"There's no "luring" required. By 2011 (2007 actually) all "HD Ready" monitors sold are REQUIRED by law to have HDCP. As a consumer, you will not have a choice. If you have HDMI, you PROBABLY already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there."

You see what I did there? I kept the meaning of the paragraph while satisfying a myopic technocrat such as yourself.

Now pop a couple of Ritalin and continue on ...


You can cover it in all the BS you want, you were whats called: WRONG.

Question: Are you like 10 or 12 years old? You call cited Federal legislation, industry white papers and info cited straight from HDMI.org 'BS'. Please don't consider a career in law. You'll fall flat on your face.


Future implementation dates dont matter a rats ass to people who are STILL buying current hdmi enabled sets that arent hdcp complaint. If you think its "rare" you are obviously clueless.

"BS", "Rat's Ass", "Clueless"? You are 10 aren't you?

Don't you think that is the whole point of the Engadget article and this thread? That many studios, including Sony and Universal, are waiting until people like you replace their non-HDCP equipment before deploying the HD protections? Have you read any of this? Hello McFly!

Oh and you STILL haven't provided any source for your claim that a substantial number of HDMI connections do not have HDCP. Nothing. Nada. Isn't that what you call 'BS'?


FYI: I never mentioned having any objection to copy protection, dont read in what isnt there. I never mentioned boycotting anyone, writing my senator or anything else.

OK, fine. You have no prob with copyright protection. Just seemed like you were pissing and moaning about something when you proclaimed "Yay for us, the consumer!"



". Although I take you at your word that you seem to have located a model without HDCP on the HDMI from a manufacturer too cheap to pay the license fee"

ahahaha. I have a SONY tv. If anyone is behind HDCP its SONY. The fact is that most 1.1 hdmi sets are NOT hdcp compliant, and the complaint sets have just started coming to market. Again: You were WRONG.

Yet again, fine, you don't have HDCP. If you were clever, you would have just stated the actual model of your Sony in the beginning so the specs could be researched and that would silence the whole HDMI/HDCP issue.

BTW you again state the 'fact' that most HDMI don't have HDCP without supporting it in any way. What's that called again? Oh yeah "BS".

Since you seem incapable of backing up any of your assertions with even a crumb of substance, a discussion with you is pointless. I'm prepared to say 'you win' in order to mollify you.

I've had my fun.

You win. Thanks for playing.
 

Tutelary

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[
wonkman said:
"There's no "luring" required. By 2011 (2007 actually) all "HD Ready" monitors sold are REQUIRED by law to have HDCP. As a consumer, you will not have a choice. If you have HDMI, you already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there."

Now, work with me on this... can you see the major point being made here? It's that HDCP is coming and most consumers will not even know it's there.

BOOM!

Actually I was posting about this on the 17th and 22nd.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1029187189#post1029187189 3-22
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1029165262#post1029165262 3-17
"Boom"


wonkman said:
Now watch this linguistic feat. I'm going to add one word that will satisfy your fascination with the HDMI/HDCP issue WITHOUT CHANGING THE POINT OF THE PARAGRAPH:

"There's no "luring" required. By 2011 (2007 actually) all "HD Ready" monitors sold are REQUIRED by law to have HDCP. As a consumer, you will not have a choice. If you have HDMI, you PROBABLY already have HDCP without it being mentioned in the specs. Most consumers will not even know it's there."

actually if you paid any attention at all, you'll notice I used the term "luring" in quotes while replying to another poster who had used it first.
UnknownSouljer said:
Sort of a: "Lure them in, and then lock 'em in" sort of strategy.

"Boom"

wonkman said:
Don't you think that is the whole point of the Engadget article and this thread? That many studios, including Sony and Universal, are waiting until people like you replace their non-HDCP equipment before deploying the HD protections? Have you read any of this? Hello McFly!

Again:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1029187189#post1029187189 3-22
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1029165262#post1029165262 3-17
"Boom"

wonkman said:
OK, fine. You have no prob with copyright protection. Just seemed like you were pissing and moaning about something when you proclaimed "Yay for us, the consumer!"

Yes, yay for us, the consumer, who shouldnt be shut out from day 1 while trying to meet the entertainment industry in a reasonable way. HDCP was simply coming too fast, and everyone knew it, hence it being effectively dropped for awhile. How "yay for us, the consumer" is "pissing and moaning" I dont understand however. I have over 400 DVDs, do you? I spend a great deal of money buying movies, I along with people like me SHOULD have a say, and WE DID.

wonkman said:
Yet again, fine, you don't have HDCP. If you were clever, you would have just stated the actual model of your Sony in the beginning so the specs could be researched and that would silence the whole HDMI/HDCP issue.
BTW you again state the 'fact' that most HDMI don't have HDCP without supporting it in any way. What's that called again? Oh yeah "BS".

My crt was the top end of the crt line, with at least 4 others under it which featured hdmi and are not hdcp compatible. If you feel so inclined, call Sony, give them my model number (make sure it excludes the M denoting the new model) and find out. This from Sony, a company waist deep in hdcp.
The hdcp spec wasnt accepted by the FCC until August of 2004, while hdmi itself started hitting the market in 2002. How many tv's were produced in that time frame which didnt meet spec because spec didnt exist? There is no master list, because manufacturers dont want to say "hey, a feature we dont have!" for obvious reasons.

wonkman said:

The only thing you've said right so far.
 

a ronin

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These studios aren't going to lampoon themselves by making it standard from day one. HDCP will require a few years to take hold in the market and those of you who are buying non compliant monitors will be kicking yourselves. As is the case with those sitting on the fence between 2405 and 2407.

I won't be using it for a number of years, but I also intend on keeping what ever monitor I purchase for the long haul. We'll see how it goes.
 

PCMusicGuy

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A small niche market where it's very common for HDMI connections to have no HDCP support is HD home theatre projectors. And if you think about it, HDMI makes no sense on projectors feature-wise. It's used for the smaller connector size.
 

a ronin

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Tutelary said:
[



The only thing you've said right so far.


Ha ha, Jackass. Coincidentally, I'm listening to a band called International Pony (Jackass) right now. :D
 

wonkman

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Your last post said nothing of consequence and rambled far off point.

:p I'm not going to call Sony about your TV nor am I going to waste time reviewing your former posts. How are your former posts relevant to this thread? :confused:

Froogle
 

Tutelary

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wonkman said:
Your last post said nothing of consequence and rambled far off point.

:p I'm not going to call Sony about your TV nor am I going to waste time reviewing your former posts. How are your former posts relevant to this thread? :confused:

Froogle

you'll find that to be the new one, mine is no longer sold, its been replaced by the N designated model (I thought it was M) which does feature hdcp compliant hdmi.

http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=here0fv.jpg
"boom"
 
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