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HD 650 and proper amp

R

rotarud

n00b
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
10
Hello , just registered on the website ( like most other been reading the forums for some time )

Iv got a question for whom ever can give me some answers :p

I have received a pair of HD650s as a gift ( i dont have them yet ) headphones and im not sure if i have the right kind of amp for it to drive them to their fullest

Right now i have a X-Fi Forte sound card witch has a built in amp but im not sure if its enough to drive these kind of cans ,

would switching to a Xonar STX / ST make a diference ? , would i absolutely need a headphone amp ?
 
its enough. if you want to upgrade your sound you can do that, but the card has enough power.
 
the HD650s will sound OK from your sound card

you will want to look into a real dedicated amp for it.

what are you willing to spend on the amp?
 
the problem is that in my country i cant realy find any good amps :S , atleast not the cheaper ones mentioned on all the forums iv read

all i could find was the Pro-ject Head box 2

im willing to spend about 150 $ or 120 E for now
 
You should go look up this information on headfi.com. I have the HD650's and a xonar ST essence. on the highest DB gain it was able to drive the headphones quite well. If your an average joe it will sound amazing. If your an audiophile or want to become one the xonar is a a good step forward. You can change the op-amps on that sound card as well as do some light mods (if your savy). a decent amp will run around $150 and up from there.


Audio-GD's NFB-12 is $200 +shipping and is a nice Dac/Amp combo
Little Dot DAC_II is $289 +shipping Dac/Amp combo

there are plenty more
 
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thanks for the replys ,

i have also found a Fiio E7 for sale rather cheap 80$ not sure how good it would be , the reason why i asked in advanced ( since i dont yet have the cans ) is because even if ill get em and plug em in the sound card , i wont be able to tell if its driving them good or not .. unelss there is something grossly wrong with it.

i will see about getting a ST/STX .
On a very rare ocasion i do play some games and that was the reason why i got the Forte instead of the ST/STX ( wich was my second choice lol )
 
The Xonar should be fine for driving the HD 650. Just try that for a bit and see if you find the HD650 performing to your tastes or not.

The Fiio E7 isn't a good option since it's more of a DAC and a portable amp. If you pair the E7 with the E9 desktop amp, that would be a good starter DAC/amp combo for the HD650 though.

I have HD650's, but I do have an external vacuum tube amplifier for it as I ended up wanting a little more from them.
 
With a small budget I would not try to upgrade (sidegrade) from the sound card you currently have.
 
well , for now , since i cant find any decent amps ( realy shitty country :D )

i could buy a STX and see if i notice any diference , and if i dont i can just return it ..
 
If I were you I wouldn't replace your sound card until you can afford something that you believe will create a night & day difference. Going out of your way for a slightly better sound card, or a cheap external device that is roughly equal -- probably wouldn't make that much of a difference. If you really want to save a little longer and get a nice external dac/amp -- then you can get things that go well above and beyond what sound cards do.
 
after getting the headphones i can definately say that the card can overall drive them ( atleast to some moderate bass and high volume )

as for soundstage , its definately lacking , im hoping to fix that with an amp

found out some more i could purcase :

Little Dot MK 3 maybe vs REGA ear headphone amplifier


any thoughts about wich one is better , price wise they are basicly the same

i know the Little Dot is a tube amp and therfore i can replace the tubes but still not sure how a tube amp fares agains a "normal" solid state amp
 
I just got the Schiit Valhalla in today. Before, I was driving my HD650s with the Audiophile 192.

The difference is absolutely remarkable. I also have their Bifrost DAC ordered and cannot wait to receive it.
 
Megalith said:
I just got the Schiit Valhalla in today. Before, I was driving my HD650s with the Audiophile 192.

The difference is absolutely remarkable. I also have their Bifrost DAC ordered and cannot wait to receive it.
Click to expand...

Awesome. The Vahalla is the Schiit.

Drumroll please!

Seriously, that is going to make for some NICE sounds.
 
i can defi say that , even with my shit configuration ( compared to most others who own these headphones ) they are worth every penny ! compared to any "pc" headphones one might buy because of a cheaper price , so any possible buyer reading this forum , consider that very hard , also the fact that a pair of headphones does not devalue as fast as a graphics card for example .. your gone be keeping them for a long time
 
The Forte and the ST/X are both on a very similar level. Their sound signatures are different, but that is a preference thing.

The Forte is also a massive pain in the ass sometimes (based on my experience with the card for several years). I bought the Forte way back when for EAX, but EAX is no longer a determining factor (finally).

If your Forte is temperamental and/or has issues, then ditch it for the ST/X, but if your Forte is behaving itself, count yourself lucky and let it be. The Forte is a great card when it wants to be.

Now about the 650s and other amplifier options:

The 650s scale very well with the amplifier. Some even go so far as to say that the 650s can best some $1,000 headphones when paired with certain amplifiers. Be this true or false, the fact remains that you can get more out of them than either the Forte or ST/X can deliver.

How much more? Is the extra expenditure worth it? That is up to you.

As for recommendations:

Schiit anything is awesome.

FiiO E7/E9 seems to be a great combination with them. (Slight to moderate increase in music enjoyment over the internal options.)

Little Dot, well... this is for music only, but the 650s do shine with tubes. Go for it.

As you have a limited budget, feel free to use the Forte as a source in the short term and upgrade to an external DAC later.
 
i have no problem with the Forte so far ( its the newest revision )

as for amps , why do you say the little dot is only for music ? ( i dont have a diferent opinion , just that i wanted to know why since i was going for a MK III
 
Most tube amplifiers add warmth and an airy feeling, which often adds to the experience with music. In exchange, you often give up some of the directionality and precision of solid state.

In general you would be sticking with the Forte for gaming anyway as you would lose CMSS-3D (in the case of a Creative chip, otherwise Dolby Headphone) by moving to an external solution.

For movies, however, I tend to stick to the 2-channel track which is usually mixed quite well (and is often already designed to provide "3D" sound through two speakers), and not use any 3D headphone solution, which tends to make the movie sound a bit muddy to my ears.

Tubes do not exactly muddy the sound in movies (well, some might), but they will generally take the edge away from, say, a bullet shot close to the screen. You lose some of the impact; which is the exact opposite of what you want in a movie track.

These are, however, general observations. There are amplifiers based on tubes which sound very close to solid state (Woo 6 SE, for example) just as there are tube-sounding solid state amplifiers (Kingrex comes to mind, especially the T20).
 
thanks for a very concise answer ( for such a vague question :D ) this should be a sticky ! :)

i guess if want an all around sound im gona stick with a solid state amp

realy have very little options here :S starting to hate it very much :S

found an aditional solid state amp : Creek OBH-21

is it any good ?
 
I have never heard it in person, but I do remember seeing mixed reviews. Sifting through the reviews it appears that the amplifier may be polarizing reviewers based on personal preferences; the amplifier definitely has its own unique sound signature. (Again, this is all based on what I have read.)

So I would say that the amplifier will be hit or miss if you go in blindly.

Another common theme among reviews is that the OBH-21's power supply (non-SE) is (potentially) behind the competition at its price point. The Creek OBH-21 SE version seems to be a good improvement there, but neither of the two OBH-21 versions, be it standard or SE, are known to be particularly bang for their buck.

If you can get a good deal on one or the other I might say go for it, especially in the case of the SE. (Just be sure that you have a trial period in which to return it.) I would not pay MSRP for either, however, as there is a lot of competition in those price ranges, at least not without first hearing them in person.

Do you have a more firm budget to offer us? It is difficult to give recommendations in a range spanning hundreds of dollars.
 
Consider a vintage integrated amp or receiver too. That way you are not investing heavily in a one trick pony. I have an early 90s (made in England) audiolab 8000A integrated amp and the headphone out on that sounds better to me than my LunchboxPro headphone tube amp. Maybe I need to try different tubes but as it is now it does not sound warmer than my audiolab. The auidiolab actually has a lusher sound. Even my much newer Denon 789 HT receiver headphone out sounds good to me and in hindsight the LunchboxPro was a waste of my money because I never needed it to begin with. That's what happens when you join headfi and take all the forum posts too seriously.
 
Gnasher said:
Consider a vintage integrated amp or receiver too. That way you are not investing heavily in a one trick pony. I have an early 90s (made in England) audiolab 8000A integrated amp and the headphone out on that sounds better to me than my LunchboxPro headphone tube amp. Maybe I need to try different tubes but as it is now it does not sound warmer than my audiolab. The auidiolab actually has a lusher sound. Even my much newer Denon 789 HT receiver headphone out sounds good to me and in hindsight the LunchboxPro was a waste of my money because I never needed it to begin with. That's what happens when you join headfi and take all the forum posts too seriously.
Click to expand...

Integrated amplifiers and receivers can be hit or miss. It's good that you picked up some good ones. I'll admit that they are far more often 'hit' than 'miss,' though.
 
Yea, the audiolab has always been known as having a good headphone out. It has separate headamp section. I didn't know that until after the fact though when I read about it at headfi many years after buying the amp. I had it in storage for years but now I use it for headphones and computer speakers. I read HarmonKardon has decent headphone out but can't say from experience if true or not. Lots of the vintage 70s amps are supposedly good too.
 
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