Havok comments on GRAW

Thanks Terra

I've been working with the reality engine for about a year now and I'm hoping our team gets access to PPU's soon, otherwise I fear I might end up buying one before the month is out :)

I'm quite happy to pay a fair bit of money for a PPU to increase graphical quality, esecpially if it comes with the added bouns that in a few years time we'll have a games using the PPU to increase gameplay like cell factor is now.

I mean look at how many people use SLI now to do the very same thing only it's used to turn up the resolution and AA and AF usualy (since even with new games most top end video cards can run with full settings)

What I'm looking out for is a indoors game which uses a PPU which puts the liquid physics and cloth physics to use all over the place.

Let me give you an idea of what I would like in the future, Imagine SWAT 4 with its really nice environments (as it looks really nice already) but take the little store level for example, running through there shooting at people who are behind cover and all the food on the shelves smashing and sending jam everywhere, crisps flying through the air, coke bottles exploding and showing people.

Put all these neat cell factor effects into a indoors environement where you're naturally limited in the number of objects you have and you can increase the quality of the liquid physics and go all out with effects, I think it would look really cool.

Anyone remember the scene from the movie desperado where they're in a bar and shooting at each other through a shelf full of bottles of booze, imagine doing that now with each bottle fragmenting into small pieces but also sending liquid everywhere and having the shelf break and colapse and have them all fall over and roll around on the floor smashing and sending flamable liquid everywhere.

THATS what I want, people put this stuff down because at the moment it will only do effects which dont effect gameplay, but imagine how cool that stuff will look.

How can people get all excited about stuff like HDR but then frown upon the sort of things like this, I'll be more than happy with increase effects for a few years until we start seeing games use this for objects which impact gameplay.
 
Gob said:
All Ageia does is simulate gravity, friction etc, all physics in a semi-real world enviornment, it's up the devlopers to find uses for it.

Alot of people can be annoyingly short sighted. Just because you havn't seen a game where a character picks up a chair in throws it, doesn't mean it won't be done.
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Thats more of a problem of dynamic animation than physics. (well, unless you just want the chair to float infront of the guy and shoot away)
 
Lord of Shadows said:
Thats more of a problem of dynamic animation than physics. (well, unless you just want the chair to float infront of the guy and shoot away)
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Ya exactly, it's just alot simpler to have the chair float infront of you, rather then animate the hands to hold it.
 
Gob said:
Ya exactly, it's just alot simpler to have the chair float infront of you, rather then animate the hands to hold it.
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Exactly the point that I was conveying in my last post. Interacting with the world via your hands vs. a potential at a distance (like telekenisis) is arbitrary because that is a game design issue and not a physics issue, both are exactly the same type of interaction as far as Havoc/Ageia is concerned. The designers will simply have to animate a hand wrapping around an object, which is a pain in the ass when you have varied shapes. And dynamically modeling the tension forces that it would take for your hand to hold the object is probably unfeasable for consumer pc's today (ppu or not), not to mention pointless, as the end result will look very similar.
 
pakotlar said:
Exactly the point that I was conveying in my last post. Interacting with the world via your hands vs. a potential at a distance (like telekenisis) is arbitrary because that is a game design issue and not a physics issue, both are exactly the same type of interaction as far as Havoc/Ageia is concerned. The designers will simply have to animate a hand wrapping around an object, which is a pain in the ass when you have varied shapes. And dynamically modeling the tension forces that it would take for your hand to hold the object is probably unfeasable for consumer pc's today (ppu or not), not to mention pointless, as the end result will look very similar.
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Try a ForceFeedback Joystick in NFSMW or a good figther-sim ;)
If the hardware is there, the power is there allready
But I would like to see the "suit" that is around for that type of interaction?

Terra - So far my Logitech ForceFeedback Joystick and Mouse are the only things doing that for me...

Edit:
The mouse I was referring too:
00044050.jpg
 
Terra said:
Try a ForceFeedback Joystick in NFSMW or a good figther-sim ;)
If the hardware is there, the power is there allready
But I would like to see the "suit" that is around for that type of interaction?

Terra - So far my Logitech ForceFeedback Joystick and Mouse are the only things doing that for me...

Edit:
The mouse I was referring too:
00044050.jpg
Click to expand...

this is a pretty cool idea. i've used microsoft's forcefeedback joystick, back in 2000 or so, and it was pretty cool. i would like to see better force feedback, not just generalized rumble, but more localized force feeback. imagine if you could wear a glove that would apply pressure, or maybe light shock to your fingertips, as you pick up a sword in oblivion. that would be excellent. anyone read philip k. dick? who would like to see olfactory simulation? fuck it, lets take it a step further. cliford d. simack's simulation room. step in, and you have 360 degree holographic projection, olfactory simulation, tactile response, the whole works. i'm bored fragging on a 2d screen, i want to frag in 3d, and when i get shot, I want to FEEL it !! :D lol. imagine that, you get slugged in the head, and get knocked out of your chair, across the floor, and into your wall. honey are you ok? yeah, i'm fine, that mother f*(H$#@*U)@# 12 year old n00b is using aimbot! lol
 
pakotlar said:
this is a pretty cool idea. i've used microsoft's forcefeedback joystick, back in 2000 or so, and it was pretty cool. i would like to see better force feedback, not just generalized rumble, but more localized force feeback. imagine if you could wear a glove that would apply pressure, or maybe light shock to your fingertips, as you pick up a sword in oblivion. that would be excellent. anyone read philip k. dick? who would like to see olfactory simulation? fuck it, lets take it a step further. cliford d. simack's simulation room. step in, and you have 360 degree holographic projection, olfactory simulation, tactile response, the whole works. i'm bored fragging on a 2d screen, i want to frag in 3d, and when i get shot, I want to FEEL it !! :D lol. imagine that, you get slugged in the head, and get knocked out of your chair, across the floor, and into your wall. honey are you ok? yeah, i'm fine, that mother f*(H$#@*U)@# 12 year old n00b is using aimbot! lol
Click to expand...

Getting knocked out of the chair would require so much kinetic energy, that a suit would be insufficient ;) *L*

Terra - And not to mention quite unsafe :D *L*
 
The closest we've come to being able to hold things in your hands is HL2 where you can actually pick up small objects with your use key and they hover closely in front of you. This requires no animation or model for your hands as you cannot see them.

No reason why cell factor couldn't do that, it's not a limitation of the physics system thats for certain, simply a limit in which avatas can interact with other objects. Each interaction requires its own coding, animations, sounds etc and is a lot of work, it's simply not reasonable to expet developers to code many varied interactions such as shaking hands etc etc
 
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