Haswell-E, DDR4 and 8 core. Good upgrade from sandy bridge.

[sblantipodi]

Hi,
I'm planning to upgrade the system in signature

Haswell-e seems an interesting upgrade.
DDR 4, a long term chipset, from 6 to 8 cores.

The only things that doesn't convince me is the frequency and the lack of USB type c support.
Does it worth to buy a PC now without usb type c?
Is 3GHz enough to compete with lower end 4 cores CPUs that push the freq up to 4.5GHz by default?

 

[drescherjm]

Good upgrade from sandy bridge.

If you can use >4 threads in the things you do yes if not NO. That is unless you want to use 3 or more GPUs.

Is 3GHz enough to compete with lower end 4 cores CPUs that push the freq up to 4.5GHz by default?

These should have similar per core performance at the same frequency as haswell in applications that use 4 or less threads meaning 3GHz + turbo will be a downgrade from 4.5 Ghz for applications that do not make good use of more than 4 threads.

Note: Most games use less than 4 threads although there is hope that more newer titles will make use of more cores / threads.

 

[R3MF]

The only things that doesn't convince me is the frequency and the lack of USB type c support.
Does it worth to buy a PC now without usb type c?

what really matters is that the computer has USB 3.1, for that is electrically identical to TypeC, and the most useful configuration for a long time to come will be USB 3.1 (m/b) to TypeC (device).

the only shame is that i haven't seen any X99 boards yet with USB 3.1...

 

[sblantipodi]

what really matters is that the computer has USB 3.1, for that is electrically identical to TypeC, and the most useful configuration for a long time to come will be USB 3.1 (m/b) to TypeC (device).

the only shame is that i haven't seen any X99 boards yet with USB 3.1...

This is a deal breaker for me.
No USB 3.1, ridiculous CPU frequency, I hoped in a good new platform but it doesn't seem good.

 

[MysticRyuujin]

Clock speed is not the only contributor to performance...It only specifically matters when comparing the same architectures / same generation. I remember when lower clock AMDs beat out the higher clock Intel chips back in the day.

Just look at this chart: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

Intel Core i7-4790S @ 3.20GHz is #7 on the list, it out performs tons of other similar and faster CPUs in single threaded performance.

Intel Core i7-4790T @ 2.70GHz is #11 on the list.

I'd wait for a benchmark before claiming issues with frequencies...

 

[drescherjm]

Intel Core i7-4790S @ 3.20GHz is #7 on the list, it out performs tons of other similar and faster CPUs in single threaded performance.

That is due to the 4Ghz 1 core Turbo. When you use more than 1 core this CPU will be much slower than the i7 it was factory underclocked from.

 

[drescherjm]

ridiculous CPU frequency

I assume that the i7-5960X has a 3 GHz stock frequency for the following 3 reasons:

1. AMD can't even compete with a 6 core / 12 threaded Intel CPU
2. The 150W xeon E5-2687 V2 is a > $2000 product (no need to give the desktop users a stock CPU that competes very well with a $2000+ CPU considering point #1).
3. I assume they did not want to make the enthusiast platform have a 150W TDP cpus although 140W is not far from 150W.

Although with that said I expect you will be able to get at least as good as the E5-2687 V2 by overclocking.

 

[dadealus]

Prepare your wallets boys
and this is only on ENG samples/ Beta boards/ beta bios

4.5 @ 1.29vcore

4.3 @ 1.25vcore

Cooling used was H100

Sauce

 

[phillyboy]

I'm thinking that you will have good headroom to overclock when using 1/2/3/4-CPUs at a time, though what dadaelus posted looks more promising . Although I usually just stick to the same frequency across all cores when I overclock I have seen people that do higher single/dual/triple multipliers.

As for USB type C - just buy a PCIe card when they inevitably come out? Most people will have a free PCIe x1 slot on their X99 board...

 

[tonyftw]

3.0 stock frequency is a non-issue. They're unlocked for a reason ya know.

Anandtech had listed a motherboard from msi that has usb 3.1, don't remember the name of it.

Prepare your wallets boys
and this is only on ENG samples/ Beta boards/ beta bios


4.5 @ 1.29vcore


4.3 @ 1.25vcore

Cooling used was H100

Oh man, should be awesome under custom loops.

 

[M76]

I'm thinking that you will have good headroom to overclock when using 1/2/3/4-CPUs at a time, though what dadaelus posted looks more promising . Although I usually just stick to the same frequency across all cores when I overclock I have seen people that do higher single/dual/triple multipliers.

As for USB type C - just buy a PCIe card when they inevitably come out? Most people will have a free PCIe x1 slot on their X99 board...

I've had very bad experiences with USB 3.0 addon cards as well. Bad drivers, dropping devices, general hell.


I was looking forward to upgarding to Haswell-E as well. But looking at DDR4 prices, I'd have to drop 400 just on ram to have only as much as I have right now. And the cpu it would be absolutely stupid to buy anything else than the 8-core one. As I can simply upgrade to 4930K without having to get new ram and new MB. For two extra cores it seems a really bad deal to me. I think I wait until it comes out and hope the 4930K drops in price a little more and go for that.

 

[tonyftw]

But looking at DDR4 prices, I'd have to drop 400 just on ram to have only as much as I have right now.

Huh? This is priced at $239.99 for 4x4 sticks at 2400. As I've said in a different thread, ddr4 ram prices are not that much higher than comparable ddr3 sticks.

The 5820k (six core with ht) should be a great chip at $395.

 

[DejaWiz]

If you primarily game on your PC, then no. Put the money into two 880 cards when they release or two 6GB 780 cards.

If you primarily use software that can take significant advantage of more than 4C/8T, then it likely will be a very good move.

 

[sblantipodi]

Se have devil's canyon at 4GHz at stock frequency, it is really ridiculous to throw out a haswell core at 3GHz.
1 GHz less than devils canyon.
This CPU will be slower than devils canyon in most jobs except the rare multithreaded environment.

No USB 3.1, ridiculous clock, I hope to see something better on 29th of august because what we have now are the opposite of the enthusiast CPU.
A 3GHz CPU with USB 3.0 sold at the end on 2014 is not an enthusiast CPU if sold at 1000$

 

[DejaWiz]

^ I agree. If the specs are true, then at this point, it's more of a "guinea pig to ensure we laugh all the way to the bank" CPU. Once again, Intel disappoints me.

 

[wabbitseason]

^ I agree. If the specs are true, then at this point, it's more of a "guinea pig to ensure we laugh all the way to the bank" CPU. Once again, Intel disappoints me.

They've been laughing all the way to the bank since Core. They made a minor misstep with the i7-920, allowing it to compete with higher priced offerings. Since then their genius idea to monetize overclocking with the 'K' series has let them gouge us even more, all the while providing tangible performance improvements at a glacial pace.

Intel could be selling us 4.5 GHz-stock, 8-core, soldered IHS chips for <$400 and still be making a killing. They simply haven't pushed the R&D necessary to do it, and will continue not to do so until competition returns to the desktop CPU space.

 

[tonyftw]

Devils canyon runs at 4.0 stock, with it boosting to 4.4. Fine and all except it leaves you with very little headroom for overclocking (most hit the limit at 4.6-4.8).

So again, 3.0 stock frequency for an unlocked chip is a non-issue. If you're on the fence, just wait for reviews to officially pop up.

 

[KazeoHin]

Anyone care to see what the 8 core EE can do on custom water? Imagine 8 cores at 4.4ghz!

 

[lutjens]

This CPU is missing about 10 cores, IMO...

 

[bigdogchris]

I don't think the 100 series Intel chipset coming out in early 2015 will have a native USB Type-C connector.

I dunno, the X series chipsets always have a ton of PCI-E lanes, great for dual or quad GPU setups, but overall always seem to lack nice features of the chipsets releasing immediately afterwords.

I think I will wait for 100 series as long as it supports quad channel.

 

[chx]

I don't think the 100 series Intel chipset coming out in early 2015 will have a native USB Type-C connector.

Technically, no chipset has a connector. If you mean that Intel chipsets support USB 3.1, who knows. Already some motherboards do at the cost of PCIe lanes.

 

[sblantipodi]

Technically, no chipset has a connector. If you mean that Intel chipsets support USB 3.1, who knows. Already some motherboards do at the cost of PCIe lanes.

There are no x99 mobos yet with USB 3.1 support.
The MSI one is a z97 using an asmedia chip, not a x99 mobo.

 

[R3MF]

There are no x99 mobos yet with USB 3.1 support.
The MSI one is a z97 using an asmedia chip, not a x99 mobo.

"the ASMedia ASM1142 Controller that requires two PCIe 2.0 lanes, which puts more pressure on PCIe lanes given the new storage technologies implemented on the 9-series that also require PCIe lanes."

makes a very good case for rolling X99 boards with:

> USB 3.1 hanging of the limited number of PCH pcie 2.0 lanes
> M.2/Express using 4x pcie 3.0 lanes off the CPU itself

show me a board that does this and I will show you a customer.

 

[SpeedyVV]

This CPU is missing about 10 cores, IMO...

AMEN!

 

[sblantipodi]

"the ASMedia ASM1142 Controller that requires two PCIe 2.0 lanes, which puts more pressure on PCIe lanes given the new storage technologies implemented on the 9-series that also require PCIe lanes."

makes a very good case for rolling X99 boards with:

> USB 3.1 hanging of the limited number of PCH pcie 2.0 lanes
> M.2/Express using 4x pcie 3.0 lanes off the CPU itself

show me a board that does this and I will show you a customer.

buy a new enthusiast platform that doesn't support the new USB standard is a waste of money.
Can't understand how manufacturers are implementing USB3.1 on Z97 and not on X99.

 

[M76]

Huh? This is priced at $239.99 for 4x4 sticks at 2400. As I've said in a different thread, ddr4 ram prices are not that much higher than comparable ddr3 sticks.

The 5820k (six core with ht) should be a great chip at $395.

That will be much more by the time it gets to europe. Even the 240 is a lot of money for basically getting what I have now. 1600 Quad Channel -> 2400 Quad Channel, I don'T consiider that an upgrade to be worth that much. Especially since latency is almost doubled 9 -> 16

 

[DrexelDragon]

Wow, that is impressive.

 

[tonyftw]

That will be much more by the time it gets to europe. Even the 240 is a lot of money for basically getting what I have now. 1600 Quad Channel -> 2400 Quad Channel, I don'T consiider that an upgrade to be worth that much. Especially since latency is almost doubled 9 -> 16

Oh yeah, prices are a tad high in europe.

Ddr4 runs at 1.2 volts, compared to 1.5 on the majority of ddr3 sticks. 8pack (a well known bencher) over at ocuk, has mentioned most hynix based sticks can run 1.45-1.50 volts 24/7, with much tighter timings.

 

[MongGrel]

They've been laughing all the way to the bank since Core. They made a minor misstep with the i7-920, allowing it to compete with higher priced offerings. Since then their genius idea to monetize overclocking with the 'K' series has let them gouge us even more, all the while providing tangible performance improvements at a glacial pace.

Intel could be selling us 4.5 GHz-stock, 8-core, soldered IHS chips for <$400 and still be making a killing. They simply haven't pushed the R&D necessary to do it, and will continue not to do so until competition returns to the desktop CPU space.

Looks interesting interesting, I'll probably be just watching to see what happens a bit as not even gaming much myself these days.

Still have my I7-920 in a bedroom HTPC, and the wife doesn't even seem to want to upgrade hers.

I have a L5639 I still haven't slapped into the 920 one, and the X5650 still clocks at 4.3 the main atm.

Some pretty interesting things there though.

 

[MongGrel]

And hiya Wabbit, hadn't been posting here a lot but can reply here now

 

[GibsonEX]

I'm in the process of replacing my good ol' I7 920, and just when i thought i settled on 4790k this damn 5820k comes along... wonder if it makes any sense going for it with just one GPU when i got X58, i thought i'm gonna run SLI, but never did. On the other hand who knows if i'm going to have funds for this stuff later... dilemma, dilemma.

 

[sblantipodi]

I'm in the process of replacing my good ol' I7 920, and just when i thought i settled on 4790k this damn 5820k comes along... wonder if it makes any sense going for it with just one GPU when i got X58, i thought i'm gonna run SLI, but never did. On the other hand who knows if i'm going to have funds for this stuff later... dilemma, dilemma.

4790 Is well enough for two way SLI.
In any case your decision isn't that obvious.
Personally I will give a chance to the HEDT platform but I find difficult to call HEDT a platform with USB 3.0

 

[defaultluser]

4790 Is well enough for two way SLI.
In any case your decision isn't that obvious.
Personally I will give a chance to the HEDT platform but I find difficult to call HEDT a platform with USB 3.0

You know that 3.1 standard was only ratified a year ago, right? The first 3rd-party chips are JUST NOW available.

Intel and AMD tend to take their time adding new features into chipsets in order to (1) let the smaller players run into the eventual bugs in every new standard, and then (2) properly implement and debug the CORRECTED standard, so that they don't have to make a giant recall involving millions of motherboards.

If you use a smaller 3rd-party part like ASMEDIA, then if it fails, that only affects the small number of enthusiasts who bought the high-end motherboards where they are first featured. If you screw-up the chipset, then everyone suffers: you either swap millions of motherboards if the defect is found after shipping (e.g. Sandy Bridge SATA issue), or you delay the shipping of the new products by several months (e.g. Haswell wake from sleep issue).

The more quickly you implement a hot new feature, the greater the risk. And the demand for hot new features is zero until devices that utilize it are on the market. Get used to them balancing both of these when implementing new features in silicon.

Intel prioritized SATA Express over USB 3.1 because we've been hitting the wall on SATA 6Gbps for years AND vendors have been doing the PCIe thing themselves to work around this limintation! But USB 3.1 is not nearly in demand, as most people are not hooking up high-end SSDs as external drives (and for those that do, a higher-end solution already exists in Thunderbolt).

 

[sblantipodi]

You know that 3.1 standard was only ratified a year ago, right? The first 3rd-party chips are JUST NOW available.

Intel and AMD tend to take their time adding new features into chipsets in order to (1) let the smaller players run into the eventual bugs in every new standard, and then (2) properly implement and debug the CORRECTED standard, so that they don't have to make a giant recall involving millions of motherboards.

If you use a smaller 3rd-party part like ASMEDIA, then if it fails, that only affects the small number of enthusiasts who bought the high-end motherboards where they are first featured. If you screw-up the chipset, then everyone suffers: you either swap millions of motherboards if the defect is found after shipping (e.g. Sandy Bridge SATA issue), or you delay the shipping of the new products by several months (e.g. Haswell wake from sleep issue).

The more quickly you implement a hot new feature, the greater the risk. And the demand for hot new features is zero until devices that utilize it are on the market. Get used to them balancing both of these when implementing new features in silicon.

Intel prioritized SATA Express over USB 3.1 because we've been hitting the wall on SATA 6Gbps for years AND vendors have been doing the PCIe thing themselves to work around this limintation! But USB 3.1 is not nearly in demand, as most people are not hooking up high-end SSDs as external drives (and for those that do, a higher-end solution already exists in Thunderbolt).

I don't know what you are trying to say but I don't agree with you.
USB 3.1 is present on Z97 motherboard thanks to as media, there is no x99 motherboard with USB 3.1 support.
So no way to justify this. HEDT platform is becoming the old platform when comparing it to mainstream platform.
HEDT uses lower frequency, older cores and now it doesn't support new features too.

Can't understand why call high end a platform like this. I'm quite disappointed.

 

[defaultluser]

Wait, you're just pissed because no motherboards at launch feature usb 3.1? I thought you were bitching about it's absence in x99!

It's not native to z97, so there's nothing stopping you from buying an add on card, or just waiting until an oem includes it for you. The slots will function the same either way.

As for clock speeds being only 3Ghz, that's only on the eight core processor, and only limited to that to hit the low tdp. This uses the same 22nm prices as ivy e did, after all, so they have the same power constraints.

But I will agree this makes the platform unimpressive.

 

[drescherjm]

As for clock speeds being only 3Ghz, that's only on the eight core processor, and only limited to that to hit the low tdp. This uses the same 22nm prices as ivy e did, after all, so they have the same power constraints.

The xeon E5-2687W v2 has 8 cores / 16 threads with a 3.4GHz stock and 4GHz turbo with a 150W TDP. I think that they could have done better if they wanted.

 

[Zomoa]

That will be much more by the time it gets to europe. Even the 240 is a lot of money for basically getting what I have now. 1600 Quad Channel -> 2400 Quad Channel, I don'T consiider that an upgrade to be worth that much. Especially since latency is almost doubled 9 -> 16

Latency doesnt matter as much with modern intel processors. They get a performance boost from using faster ram with looser timings. Lots and lots of data out there on this.

Here's one article on it:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell

Skimming over that article again, 2400mhz, looser timed ram is up to 5-12% faster than 1600mhz tighter timed ram in memory intensive applications. Not an insignificant boost.

 

[sblantipodi]

Wait, you're just pissed because no motherboards at launch feature usb 3.1? I thought you were bitching about it's absence in x99!

It's not native to z97, so there's nothing stopping you from buying an add on card, or just waiting until an oem includes it for you. The slots will function the same either way.

As for clock speeds being only 3Ghz, that's only on the eight core processor, and only limited to that to hit the low tdp. This uses the same 22nm prices as ivy e did, after all, so they have the same power constraints.

But I will agree this makes the platform unimpressive.

I am disappointed from the fact that Z97 motheboards have a builtin asmedia chip for usb3.1 while the HEDT platform not.
HEDT for what if they don't implement the new features?

we have older cores, no new features, HEDT for what? for the price?