Haswell a big flop?

how is it possible for these threads to even be started one day before the actual launch. I understand information travels at the speed of light now, but isnt it a bit unrealistic to call a product a flop before "real" users even have their hands on them yet? If you read Kyles review, his did 5ghz. What are the overclocking credentials of the reviewer at techspot?
 
Sheppard said:
how is it possible for these threads to even be started one day before the actual launch. I understand information travels at the speed of light now, but isnt it a bit unrealistic to call a product a flop before "real" users even have their hands on them yet?
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i consider techpowerup to be a very reliable source of benchmarks
 
XenatR said:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7-4770K_Haswell/3.html

this sample cpu only gets to 4.2ghz stable.. is intel serious? just a one-off surely???

if this is indeed the overclocking performance, then SandyBridge owners, who've managed to clock their processors to 4.8ghz+ must be rolling around laughing
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Even if this were the case won't these overclocks be almost equivalent as far as performance goes? I mean doesn't a 4.8GHz SB roughly equal a 4.5GHz IB.
 
I consider my own results before anyone elses. According to the benchmarks @ stock the cpu simply out performs the ivy bridge, which is what its intended purpose was. that being said, most of the enhancments were aimed at the onboard gpu function of this chip for laptops and notebooks and such, not desktop. consider the ivy bridge launch and how terrible the first batch of those chips overclocked, vs how well the most recent batch is overclocking.
 
I just want to see that guy on the forums posting how Haswell will allow 5Ghz OCing EASY and upwards of 5.5-6Ghz on closed water-cooling.

He was very adamant about it, so I want to point and say.

simpsons_nelson_haha3.jpg
 
it's not going to be a flop. 95% of the consumers that end up with a haswell processor aren't going to be able to overclock them/won't be interested to in the first place. it does what it says on the box, and is marginally faster than its predecessor.

is it going to be a flop for [H] goers? probably. i know i'm not going to buy one. we don't need on-die GPU's around here!
 
tacos4me said:
it's not going to be a flop. 95% of the consumers that end up with a haswell processor aren't going to be able to overclock them/won't be interested to in the first place. it does what it says on the box, and is marginally faster than its predecessor.

is it going to be a flop for [H] goers? probably. i know i'm not going to buy one. we don't need on-die GPU's around here!
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when i said flop of course i meant us performance enthusiasts and not the general public -_-

for those who have SB chips, should have no concerns about spending out on new motherboards + cpus... complete waste of money... spend your money on a better graphics card if youre into gaming

im interested to see how Steamroller perfoms given the gulf in probable price
 
I think its success will depend largely on the overall market. If PCs and laptops are still slumping, I don't think Haswell could overcome that. There are bigger pressures that Intel has to deal with.
 
Sheppard said:
I consider my own results before anyone elses. According to the benchmarks @ stock the cpu simply out performs the ivy bridge, which is what its intended purpose was. that being said, most of the enhancments were aimed at the onboard gpu function of this chip for laptops and notebooks and such, not desktop. consider the ivy bridge launch and how terrible the first batch of those chips overclocked, vs how well the most recent batch is overclocking.
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well its not everyone who can afford the luxury of being able to 'test' out a new cpu + mobo for _themselves_ .. most of us will go by online reviews, then make an 'informed decision' based on research

Liger88 said:
I just want to see that guy on the forums posting how Haswell will allow 5Ghz OCing EASY and upwards of 5.5-6Ghz on closed water-cooling.

He was very adamant about it, so I want to point and say.

simpsons_nelson_haha3.jpg
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brilliant :) !
 
No chance its a flop. This thing sips power and is ~10% faster than Ivy Bridge. In this day and age, thats a home run. For us enthusiasts and overclockers its a disappointment but we're not a big enough segment of the market to cause it to flop.
 
MacLeod said:
No chance its a flop. This thing sips power and is ~10% faster than Ivy Bridge. In this day and age, thats a home run. For us enthusiasts and overclockers its a disappointment but we're not a big enough segment of the market to cause it to flop.
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missed_the_point.jpg
 
Ah, maybe I did. Y'all were referring only to flopping as an overclocker? My bad. :eek:
 
MacLeod said:
Ah, maybe I did. Y'all were referring only to flopping as an overclocker? My bad. :eek:
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You might've missed the point the OP was making but your own point still stands. Trying to make fun of Intel (by asking if they're serious) for not focusing solely on overclockers is a lost cause, our market is quite small compared to the rest.
 
Most of the screenshots I've seen were made with chips Cpuz labeled as ES chips, not retail. The first runs of chip production also usually lead to refinements in making them. There also wasn't any pressure from AMD so Intel got to shoot for a layup instead of a slam dunk. It's still a very attractive chip for us that don't already have a highly clocked 2500k or Ivy Bridge already.
 
I don't think it's a flop, I just think that if you are a gamer it is not worth upgrading to Haswell from SB/IB. I went from a Phenom II 965BE to I5-3570K back in December and I had a few concerns back then. I almost held out for Haswell. Now I'm glad I didn't wait. Seems like Haswell is engineered more with mobile power use concerns than desktop performance. That's my take on it at this time.
 
MacLeod said:
Ah, maybe I did. Y'all were referring only to flopping as an overclocker? My bad. :eek:
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Neb said:
You might've missed the point the OP was making but your own point still stands. Trying to make fun of Intel (by asking if they're serious) for not focusing solely on overclockers is a lost cause, our market is quite small compared to the rest.
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ahh sorry guys, i can see where the confusion could have come from as i addressed intel directly :p anyway.. where were we.. ahh yes.. discussing how intel have
let us down since SB :p

Gman1979 said:
Most of the screenshots I've seen were made with chips Cpuz labeled as ES chips, not retail. The first runs of chip production also usually lead to refinements in making them. There also wasn't any pressure from AMD so Intel got to shoot for a layup instead of a slam dunk. It's still a very attractive chip for us that don't already have a highly clocked 2500k or Ivy Bridge already.
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for those with something less than 2500k, for sure it is a worthwhile upgrade

bernaby said:
I don't think it's a flop, I just think that if you are a gamer it is not worth upgrading to Haswell from SB/IB. I went from a Phenom II 965BE to I5-3570K back in December and I had a few concerns back then. I almost held out for Haswell. Now I'm glad I didn't wait. Seems like Haswell is engineered more with mobile power use concerns than desktop performance. That's my take on it at this time.
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what concerns did you have from a 965 to an i5??

g1xx3r said:
Seems my sig rig will survive another generation..
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at least... at this rate, you will be ok till 2015 ;)
 
what concerns did you have from a 965 to an i5??



I had no concerns about going from 965 to 3570, my concerns were about whether to wait for Haswell.
 
They already stated that they will be focusing more on improving mobile computing than desktop due to PC sales slump. Honestly, I'm impressed that they improved battery life and lowered the power consumption while still pumping out such computation capabilities in Haswells mobile lineup. Hopefully this means we can use faster Intel processors in tablets while having 9-10 hours battery life soon in the near future!
 
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Why the hell does it seem like every review website did all of their gaming reviews using the onboard GPU?

I know I'm not alone in that I don't care about the onboard GPU, and want to see results using real videocard(s).
 
Sheppard said:
how is it possible for these threads to even be started one day before the actual launch. I understand information travels at the speed of light now, but isnt it a bit unrealistic to call a product a flop before "real" users even have their hands on them yet? If you read Kyles review, his did 5ghz. What are the overclocking credentials of the reviewer at techspot?
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If you are going to state something as fact (Kyle's did 5Ghz), then get your damn facts STRAIGHT...

The fact of the matter is that even though Aida64 shows my system to be "stable," this is not true. All you have to do is start Handbrake, and use it to encode a Bluray rip at 1080P and the system will hard-lock. Your mileage may vary, but I am going to stay old school in terms of how we decide if hardware is "stable."
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That is his actual statement, and it goes to show that even with HIGH END (read custom loop territory) the cpy couldn't be kept below 90+ degree spikes and would FAIL @ everything but Aida64...:eek::eek::eek:

I find it a failure on the overclocking end..I was STRONGLY considering getting one to replace my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz, because I like to tinker and have 2 MC's close by..But the fact that Asus has said they have tested hundreds of samples and only 1 n 10 can run @ 4.8Ghz @ a Vcore HIGHER then my Ivy well...

GotNoRice said:
Why the hell does it seem like every review website did all of their gaming reviews using the onboard GPU?

I know I'm not alone in that I don't care about the onboard GPU, and want to see results using real videocard(s).
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I would think that is has to do with the fact that Intel has been saying for over a year now that the point of Haswell was to offer superior thermal/power envelopes along with a vastly improved iGPU...
 
ccityinstaller said:
I find it a failure on the overclocking end..I was STRONGLY considering getting one to replace my 3770K @ 4.8Ghz, because I like to tinker and have 2 MC's close by..But the fact that Asus has said they have tested hundreds of samples and only 1 n 10 can run @ 4.8Ghz @ a Vcore HIGHER then my Ivy well...
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Damn!!! :eek:


(News to me anyway)
 
i couldn't give a shit whether they oc or not. all i want is to buy a fast chip that i can set and forget about it that will last me a few years. my days of convincing myself i find oc'ing fun is long over.
 
Banyan said:
i couldn't give a shit whether they oc or not. all i want is to buy a fast chip that i can set and forget about it that will last me a few years. my days of convincing myself i find oc'ing fun is long over.
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I miss the days where "set it and forget it" meant OCing as well.

My OC was pretty much set it and forget it. Wanted to hit 4ghz, first attempt was stable. Haven't touched it since.
 
Are these the only improvements year on year we are likely to see from intel? roughly 8% increase in performance year on year?
 
I have a 3770K with an Asus Z77 Pro Gen 3 running 4.4GHz at .005 less vCore than stock, with a Corsair 80, it has NO problems with heat. I have 32 GB RAM and a EVGA 3GB 660TI in that box, and it is my main PC now, and will be moved over to 2nd slot.
My 2nd box has a EVGA X58 FTW and a 920 running stock vcore at 3.6Ghz, 16GB, EVGA 650 TO Boost, Corsair 60. It will be moved to the upstairs desk on wireless. It has a blue/silver NZXT Transformer mid tower that has had 3-4 builds in it, time to move it out.
So early this morning, I purchased an Asus Sabertooth and a 4770K, have to wait for shipping. I have been gathering a crap load of parts the last two months and will be doing a complete build when the final parts get here.
Zotac 680 4GB, Corsair 80i (which I took a chance and bought before I knew for sure it would fit 1150, PHEW) 32 GB 1866 RAM, 250 SSD, 2 2TB hard drives, 2 Pioneer 3D Blu ray burners, PC Power & Cooling 950W PSU, Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium, etc, all in a NZXT Phantom full tower in red (my main box now is in the same, only in white).
Considering I am 62, I am building this one in anticipation it will be the last one I'll ever build.
IF I can get 4.4GHz at stock vcore, this will be acceptable, anything over that and up to 1.2v will be gravy.
If less than 4.4, I will be disappointed and will look for a better CPU in a few months after the feeding frenzy dies down, and some more reviews come in. Present 4770K be sold.
With all the parts sitting for 2-3 months, I just couldn't wait any longer.
 
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XenatR said:
Are these the only improvements year on year we are likely to see from intel? roughly 8% increase in performance year on year?
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For CPU? Probably. Their strategy is less power and better graphics. Improving the CPU is somewhat of a liability towards those ends. We'll have incidental improvements from better architectures and node shrinks and of course to keep the reviews somewhat positive, but that's about it.
 
robowang said:
I have a 3770K with an Asus Z77 Pro Gen 3 running 4.4GHz at .005 less vCore than stock, with a Corsair 80, it has NO problems with heat. I have 32 GB RAM and a EVGA 3GB 660TI in that box, and it is my main PC now, and will be moved over to 2nd slot.
My 2nd box has a EVGA X58 FTW and a 920 running stock vcore at 3.6Ghz, 16GB, EVGA 650 TO Boost, Corsair 60. It will be moved to the upstairs desk on wireless. It has a blue/silver NZXT Transformer mid tower that has had 3-4 builds in it, time to move it out.
So early this morning, I purchased an Asus Sabertooth and a 4770K, have to wait for shipping. I have been gathering a crap load of parts the last two months and will be doing a complete build when the final parts get here.
Zotac 680 4GB, Corsair 80i (which I took a chance and bought before I knew for sure it would fit 1150, PHEW) 32 GB 1866 RAM, 250 SSD, 2 2TB hard drives, 2 Pioneer 3D Blu ray burners, PC Power & Cooling 950W PSU, Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium, etc, all in a NZXT full tower in red (my main box now is in the same, only in white).
Considering I am 62, I am building this one in anticipation it will be the last one I'll ever build.
IF I can get 4.4GHz at stock vcore, this will be acceptable, anything over that and up to 1.2v will be gravy.
If less than 4.4, I will be disappointed and will look for a better CPU in a few months after the feeding frenzy dies down, and some more reviews come in. Present 4770K be sold.
With all the parts sitting for 2-3 months, I just couldn't wait any longer.
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sounds like an awesome build :) lucky you can afford such a beast! i see you dont have a graphics card listed, do you not play computer games? also, why, at 62, do you say it will be the last one you ever build?? youre not 'old' in the slightest :eek:
 
I am more interested in haswell for the mobile performance and battery life increase. If I can get a convertible like my Vaio Duo with a 50% increase in battery life and huge increase in the integrated graphics performance then I might buy another one. If I get 7-8hrs with my Vaio Duo now with a sheet battery, 6-7 hrs with haswell with out sheet battery and 11-12hrs with would be amazing for me.
 
XenatR said:
Are these the only improvements year on year we are likely to see from intel? roughly 8% increase in performance year on year?
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And what (other than benchmark racing) takes advantage of even that?

That is the even larger issue - not just for Intel, but even AMD - software is hardly pushing the CPU side of things, except for the odd game or niche/outlier application.

And even in terms of gaming, if you try to merely push to the present (DX11) you get pushback (as was the case with Crysis 3).

I'm running a four years DEAD Intel quad core (Q6600) and I don't run the high-end games (lack of interest mostly); however, even if I did, most would be GPU bottlenecked - not CPU-bottlenecked - and that is with any of the current i5-Ks (2500K, 3570K, or 4670K) at stock.

The only reason I can consider Haswell-K (specifcally i5-4670K) at all is due to MicroCenter actually having sane bundle pricing. Also, the biggest upgrade driver on the CPU side isn't gaming, but virtualization - specifically Hyper-V - which right now I have to use a server OS (Windows Server) to take advantage of at all (no EPT support in Q6600). And any Ivy or Haswell CPU works for that.
 
XenatR said:
sounds like an awesome build :) lucky you can afford such a beast! i see you dont have a graphics card listed, do you not play computer games? also, why, at 62, do you say it will be the last one you ever build?? youre not 'old' in the slightest :eek:
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Thank you Sir!
62 is old for my family. My father and his father died at 66 and 65.
Hopefully, I''l take after my moms side. Her father was full blood American Indian. He lived to be 94, and still had full coal black hair. My dad's side were all Friar Tuck bald in their mid 30's.
I still have all of my hair, although peppered, except for the batch I lost when I did two cycles of Steroids in 1996-97. Can't tell I have lost any since, so, who knows.
The vid card will be a Zotech 680 4GB (still in it's box). My present main box has the EVGA 660 TI 3GB. and my 3rd box has a EVGA 650 TI Boost.
I do play pc games, mostly FPS. On Bioshock Infinity, Metro, and just installed Max Payne 3.
I retired from NIST at 51, so I can afford some extra stuff, but 9 grand kids keep my checking account flat, LOL.
 
Markistehnamezor said:
Lol, mine is still at 775. I may just upgrade to haswell and call it good for the next five years.
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In your case thats a jump and like you said will probably last a while the way things are going.I have the itch to build a new just because I love doing it.I also like to be able to sit back in my chair when I'm done, run some benchies etc. and say it was worth it. In this case,Haswell does not seem like it would make me forget my 2500k @ 5GHZ..
 
XenatR said:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7-4770K_Haswell/3.html

this sample cpu only gets to 4.2ghz stable.. is intel serious? just a one-off surely???

if this is indeed the overclocking performance, then SandyBridge owners, who've managed to clock their processors to 4.8ghz+ must be rolling around laughing
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The problem is that Haswell CPUs vary wildly in terms of OC'ability. Some run into trouble at 4.2-4.3GHz and others have no trouble hitting 4.8GHz+. I've seen and worked with examples that run the gamut on that.
 
Dan_D said:
The problem is that Haswell CPUs vary wildly in terms of OC'ability. Some run into trouble at 4.2-4.3GHz and others have no trouble hitting 4.8GHz+. I've seen and worked with examples that run the gamut on that.
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Seems maybe more like the days of the Celeron 333 and 366....I remember them being very tricky to find a solid 500 mhz and 550.....alot of pretested ones back then. Likewise, my Celeron 266 and 300A to name a few, overclocked as good and better than the norm back then.
 
Liger88 said:
I just want to see that guy on the forums posting how Haswell will allow 5Ghz OCing EASY and upwards of 5.5-6Ghz on closed water-cooling.

He was very adamant about it, so I want to point and say.

simpsons_nelson_haha3.jpg
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fanboy said:
Bulldozer part 2
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LOL.

Whatever happened to that intel guy, claiming this chip was going to be great for overclocking? Haswell should be great for lappies though.
 
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