Has Nvidia Seceded to ATI in the high end gaming segment?

Think I am personally going to go with the 5850 now after much thought. It's faster than a gtx285, runs cooler, and is all I need at 1360x768 resolution for max AA/AF settings. Plus it's also a lot cheaper. 5850 has got to be the best bang for the buck.
 
I did the same research you did a page or two ago... simple googling reveals PRIME1 is way off the mark. Why even bother continuing this dumb pissing match with him?

People can believe that mountains don't exist, but when you're standing on top of one you shouldn't share that belief. That's just dumb.

I'm still surprised this thread hasn't been closed. Lots of REALLY useless BS in here.
 
RADEoN said:
PRIME1, can you show me a link dated recently that states AMD/ATI lost money on the 4800's?
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6 months ago was too old? How long was the 4800 series out by then and they were still far behind.

Tell yah what. Show me a link that says the opposite. (Also if you don't know which cards were comeptetion for the 4800 series...well give up now).

LAiN_OfTheWired said:
I did the same research you did a page or two ago... simple googling reveals PRIME1 is way off the mark.
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Prove it.

So far I'm the only one with proof.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/04/30/nvidia-increases-market-share/1
 
Because posting links with outdated information from a google search is most assuredly proof. I can do that as well, the difference being my links with outdated information are newer than yours...

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=3025

Also, nothing makes a profit the minute it hits shelves... So yes, the 4000 series was out 6 months ago when the link you posted was created, but considering time has not stopped and the 4000 series has continued to sell very well with an ever-increasing market share you'd have to be an absolute moron to think these cards hadn't been profitable. AMD as a whole definitely didn't turn pure profit, but they did not lose money on the 4000 series.

According to a related link on the page you posted, AMD lost almost 80% less money in the first quarter of 2009 compared to the fourth quarter of 2008. That's a bit of a sharp rise if their graphics division was losing them money considering AM3 had been released only a month prior. ( http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/04/22/amd-financial-results-q1-2009/1 )
 
I really can't find anything other than the bit-tech link that PRIME1 is showing that says what he's saying, either.
 
If the highend card is released and has gaming performance like a HD5850, then the OP's question might be a valid one.
 
Kowan said:
If the highend card is released and has gaming performance like a HD5850, then the OP's question might be a valid one.
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That's not going to happen. nVidia is going to release their flagship card, then ATI will answer back with a slightly faster X2 Variant of the 5870, but with the usual driver headaches, of course.
 
PRIME1 said:
I guess AMD must be morons because their graphics division lost money last quarter.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=quarterlyearnings

I don't think I have ever seen a group of fans in such deep denial. :rolleyes:
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I really don't care how much money the companies make, I care who makes the better product at a better price, and ATI did that this generation. nVidia released a slightly faster GTX295, but the price premium wasn't worth it.

You need to read more into the financial information too. They lost money on things that weren't just video cards, I.E discontinued operations, the litigation cases etc.
 
The gamer card business in slowing with a lack of games, piracy, consoles, and the recession. Maybe they want to focus on the science community, and super computers for awhile.
 
RADEoN said:
That's not going to happen. nVidia is going to release their flagship card, then ATI will answer back with a slightly faster X2 Variant of the 5870, but with the usual driver headaches, of course.
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We know that and that's why this thread is silly.
They're late but not giving up on what is their bread and butter.
Them being late is helping AMD get some much needed market share and capital. ;)
 
RADEoN said:
I really don't care how much money the companies make,
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So you ask "PRIME1, can you show me a link dated recently that states AMD/ATI lost money on the 4800's?"

So I show you a link that they lost money last quarter.

Now you say "I really don't care how much money the companies make,"


:D
 
You showed us what I had already said, that as a whole the company lost money. Everybody knows that. Brilliant show.
 
PRIME1 said:
So you ask "PRIME1, can you show me a link dated recently that states AMD/ATI lost money on the 4800's?"

So I show you a link that they lost money last quarter.

Now you say "I really don't care how much money the companies make,"


:D
Click to expand...

I didn't see anything showing how AMD's graphic division lost money. Just an AMD overall loss which is usual ever since Core 2.

You should check out: http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases...ves-than-negatives-in-q209-for-the-graphics-/

AMD gained 4% market share in Q2 2009, while nvidia lost those 4 points. This is definitely going to continue unless nvidia drastically cuts prices on everything soon.

And on another note, you most likely have some kind of agenda, since I've seen you post a ridiculous amount of anti-AMD propaganda elsewhere.
 
Minor nuance, here, OP. To "secede" is to separate. "Has nVidia separated from AMD?" You see, that makes no sense.

I think you mean "ceded," as in "ceded defeat."
 
PRIME1 said:
So you ask "PRIME1, can you show me a link dated recently that states AMD/ATI lost money on the 4800's?"

So I show you a link that they lost money last quarter.

Now you say "I really don't care how much money the companies make,"


:D
Click to expand...

Just for the sake of curiosity...


:D

Also, you said ATI lost money directly... common sense tells us that AMD lost money, so trolling me about that is a more than futile attempt.
 
ordovician said:
Minor nuance, here, OP. To "secede" is to separate. "Has nVidia separated from AMD?" You see, that makes no sense.

I think you mean "ceded," as in "ceded defeat."
Click to expand...

What if I did this...

"Has Nvidia seceded the high end gaming segment to ATI?"

I wonder if that would work. If you can allow the "high end gaming segment" to be considered an association of sorts, that of which Nvidia is withdrawing from...it might work. But I think everyone knew what I meant any ways.
 
astroboy said:
Money lost. That document has nothing to do with forcasts.
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You'd be surprised. If they forecast to make 100 million this quarter, and only make 89 million, that counts as 11 million lost.
 
PS3: heh... that's really stretching the usage of words. Cede or Concede would be much better. There's also idiom to consider: Secede FROM, Concede TO... not [H]ard rules, but common.
Edit: If you wanted to treat "the high-end gaming segment" as an entity, it'd be something like: Nvidia has seceded FROM the high-end gaming segment, yielding to AMD.

More importantly: How / Why the hell is AMD losing money during what we considered one of their most successful graphics generations?
There had better be a good reason for losing money... They tried to minimize manufacturing costs by avoiding Monster GPU's, they sold quite a few of them, and somehow they come out behind? How the crap are they going to turn a profit? :(
 
RADEoN said:
You'd be surprised. If they forecast to make 100 million this quarter, and only make 89 million, that counts as 11 million lost.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. Money lost means they spent more than they earned through revenue.
Read the document (if you are not just trolling).
 
Lol, why argue over what these companies make? Are you shareholders or something? All I care about is prices going down on video cards, and that aint happening until Nvidia gets back in the game. I don't want to wait three months, so any chance of Nvidia coming out earlier with the gt300 series? If not, than I'm jumping ship over to ATI.
 
nvidia is not going to cave in in the video card bissness.late,who isn't?amd has a good product not one that's to close down any comany.my .02.no one is replying to the orginal question any way.
 
PS3 said:
why argue over what these companies make?
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I always buy whatever is better at the moment regardless of who's GPU is it.
However, financially there is no doubt that it is *AMD*, not nvidia, who is in real trouble.
Also, AMD's data shows that the good cards they've been putting out recently (and I own one btw) has *not* helped improve their situation at all.

Just trying to pour some reality over this nonsense thread.
 
There is little debate that AMD is not in the best financial situation. This debate was about whether or not the 4000 series lost them money and it doesn't appear that it did. So yes, you're right that AMD is losing money, but you're right for the wrong reasons.
 
RamonGTP said:
This debate was about whether or not the 4000 series lost them money and it doesn't appear that it did..
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you can't be serious!!
Let me try this again:

AMD is in fact losing money on Graphics. Proof:

1) Go to http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....rterlyearnings
2) Download the Q2 tables pdf
3) Scroll down to "Segment and Category Information from Continuing Operations"

Graphics division lost $11M on the six months ending in June 27, 2009.
 
Archmage said:
PS3: heh... that's really stretching the usage of words. Cede or Concede would be much better. There's also idiom to consider: Secede FROM, Concede TO... not [H]ard rules, but common.
Edit: If you wanted to treat "the high-end gaming segment" as an entity, it'd be something like: Nvidia has seceded FROM the high-end gaming segment, yielding to AMD.

More importantly: How / Why the hell is AMD losing money during what we considered one of their most successful graphics generations?
There had better be a good reason for losing money... They tried to minimize manufacturing costs by avoiding Monster GPU's, they sold quite a few of them, and somehow they come out behind? How the crap are they going to turn a profit? :(
Click to expand...

+1 Said it better than I could have.
 
I think my assumption about profits is the truth. I'm unsure, but I think so.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
it would make sense that the ati acquisition put amd in an enormous hole that was compounded by the dismal performance (technical and in the market place) of the r600. even if amd saves money with every r700 and r800 chip they manufacture, that savings may not translate to profit if the engineering and marketing cost of taking that part to market override the asking price. its a scenario just like their phenom 2 processors. these chips compare pretty fairly to intel's offerings but must be sold a a deep discount to attract perspective buyers. its time for users who enjoy amd's products to put up or shut up and not quibble about the costs of these new 5xxx series cards, especially considering the level of performance you get per dollar spent.
 
Sorry the 550 I spent on the 4870x2 isn't putting up enough to save amd. If I wanted to make a purchase to save a company, I'd buy stock.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
lol this thread is funny, PRIME1 is a huge ass fanboy, who is about 50/50 on pretty much 100% of the things he types. The only reason I read all of the thread is to read his ridiculous posts.
 
DrDoU said:
nvidia is not going to cave in in the video card bissness.late,who isn't?amd has a good product not one that's to close down any comany.my .02.no one is replying to the orginal question any way.
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I think that's because we've all agreed nvidia has seceded.
 
Secede is not even close to the right word here. The South tried to secede from the Union so that lazy white people could continue having black people do all their work and tried to wrap it in a bullshit argument about being "free." Nvidia ceded the high-end GPU market to ATI for several months.

See? Not at all the same.
 
Let's just replace "Secede" with "Fermied" instead. Starting to like that word Fermi now, even though it sounds like a cute fuzzy stuffed animal. Weird.
 
RADEoN said:
Sorry the 550 I spent on the 4870x2 isn't putting up enough to save amd. If I wanted to make a purchase to save a company, I'd buy stock.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
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sure if you're buying that share at more than what it's worth. i'm not here to try to save amd, but certain posters want to correlate the greater adoption of 4xxx series video cards with the discrete graphics division generating a profit. while i'm sure plenty of users bought 4850's and 4870's, most of them probably bought these cards at a discount which poses the distinct possibility that the division looses more money than it makes.
 
PS3 said:
Let's just replace "Secede" with "Fermied" instead. Starting to like that word Fermi now, even though it sounds like a cute fuzzy stuffed animal. Weird.
Click to expand...

It's pronounced "fair-me", not "fur-me".

(I know what Huang said.)
 
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