Has anyone considered a digital Time Capsule?

[Flybye]

Hey all, so Ive been thinking about an airtight digital time capsule for family to open up in 100 years. At first I thought a laptop loaded with videos and pics. But then all the typicals started coming up in my head like:

1) How much damage could a leaky CMOS battery cause? Do they even leak? Id remove the main battery and put in a separate box, which really wouldnt matter anyways since they could power up the laptop with the power adapter. I suppose I could remove the CMOS battery, too, IF its removable.

2) Chances of a platter or SSD retaining all the data?

3) Would a CD-R/DVD-R/BD-R have a better chance of retaining data that long?

4) Would a USB drive be a better option than a drive or optical disc?

 

[Deleted member 245375]

1) I doubt a laptop would be functional after such a long period of time for a variety of reasons if it's not kept in something like an environmentally controlled and even hermetically sealed container of some kind but that's debatable I suppose.

2) A hard drive or SSD should easily survive such a period of time but because of #1 potentially not working then how is the data going to be read from the device(s)?

3) M-DISCs have lifespans that supposedly are 1,000 years or more but again the way the media is stored like #1 discusses it means you'd still need to have a working optical disc drive to be able to read the data.

4) A Flash-RAM/ROM based device should easily survive such a period of time even in various environments that might render other storage formats absolutely worthless but once more it comes back to the future generation having some device that can communicate with the storage device and read the data from it properly.

Sometimes it's amazing that probably the best long term storage for data that we humans still can make use of it a printed page of information. Unfortunately you can only print so much information on a page of paper even considering miniaturization (because you'd again still need something that can read the data so I'd like to presume that magnifying glasses and microscopes might still exist 100+ years from now).

I figure someday we'll have true functional holographic storage that will last for vast periods of time but, honestly I can't think of anything I'd care to have around 100+ years from now. Guess my self-worth needs some boosting these days, never considered myself or anything I've ever done to be that worthy of keeping a record of for future generations.

 

[Flybye]

This is why I would like to store a laptop or PC with the media. They will have access to a machine that will be able to read the media. I was thinking of renting a vacuum pump like the ones for vacuuming an AC system and attaching to some type of vacuum sealed box to keep the components as dry as possible.

I dont know about you, but I would have loved to find a time capsule of my great grandparents.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

I dont know about you, but I would have loved to find a time capsule of my great grandparents.

As for the hardware surviving, I would presume it would if contained and sealed off from any harmful effects of the storage environment, you'd need to provide some detailed instructions - on paper of course, the irony here being quite palpable - on how to operate the laptop to make use of the storage media you'll include and pray things work out between when you seal it up to when someone in the future (if we survive as a species that long) gets around to opening it.

With repsect to my own ancestry I'll clue you in on it (but probably shouldn't): I couldn't care less, to be honest, and while that might seem to be harsh in some respects I barely knew my grandfather on my Mom's side of the family (my Dad's parents had long since departed when I was born) - and I know you said great grandparents so another generation prior - so that sort of thing never held any interest for me personally but I suppose that's not what this thread is all about. I'll finish by saying I don't give a damn about my ancestry personally, I know that's a big thing with people nowadays and at least once in most instances where I happen to watch something on TV (streamed online, of course, I don't even own a physical TV anymore) I'll see a commercial for one of those services that now does ancestral DNA testing to show people what their genetic heritage is and I can't help but laugh at the concept:

They're not in business to really help people learn what their history is in terms of their genetics, they're in business to build up a massive database of genetic information on the population at large which has never really been done before on such a scale, not even by the government (but you can be damned sure the government will be very interested in all the info these companies are now collecting). That's my own personal "conspiracy theory" on that matter and I'll shut up now lest I get a knock on my door and "Men In Black" asking me to look at some contraption.

 

[Flybye]

LOL Tiberian. Ive always been a curious person. I know this sorta thing is not for everyone, but I can at least hope my grand or great grands will be as curious as I am! Some good points, though. Putting a sticky next to the ON button. Instructions on what double clicking are, etc. Maybe even having a READ ME file right in the center of the desktop. Ill probably just right instructions on regular paper with a regular pen. Ink seems to last a pretty long time.

 

[Simplyfun]

This is why I would like to store a laptop or PC with the media. They will have access to a machine that will be able to read the media. I was thinking of renting a vacuum pump like the ones for vacuuming an AC system and attaching to some type of vacuum sealed box to keep the components as dry as possible.

I dont know about you, but I would have loved to find a time capsule of my great grandparents.

I would literally print and vacuum seal the binary data I wished to leave along with a copy on Milleniatta’s M-Disc DVD and Blu-ray recordable discs which are rated for 1,000 years just in case they could still read optical discs - something I actually believe is highly likely. I would also include a copy on my second choice choice , that would be archival quality ROM , which companies like SanDisk developed a long time ago along with the specs for reading the chips. I mean if I can cobble together a replacement circuit for a 60 year old analogue tape drive, someone in the future can cobble together a digital circuit to read a ROM if they have the specs.

 

[whateverer]

Flash will lose it's data. Unpowered flash lifetime is ten years, if you're lucky. Which really sucks, because USB seems to have it's hands permanently dug-in, so USB thumb drives may actually work 100 years from now.

Hard drive components and data may last, but the drive motor will probably seize. Also, if they have any flash firmware chips, those will be gone.

Optical discs can last 20-50 years with proper storage, and MAY still be readable, if only because we see no push to replace Blu-Ray as the disc standard. And there are still more than enough corner-cases to keep around a high-bandwidth disc like Blu-Ray, even if PC gaming has abandoned it. Because internet will never be universal AND cheap, and flash storage is still not as cheap as a disc, nor big enough for 4k.

Optical has the best chance, because your Blu-Ray player still supports CD audio from 35 years ago. I'd imagine that whatever optical format we're using in 100 years, it will still be 12-inch. That makes backward-compatibility for Blu-Ray likely, at least for another 50 years.

So, either take your chances on Blu-Ray MDISC (single-layer, 1x burn speed, no label, verify after write), or print that shit out. OR pay gobs of money to have a mask rom made (Think game console cartridges).

 

[rhansen5_99]

I would vote an optical backup solution as well. Assuming they could access the data it has a good chance to survive. Maybe add some kind of player to the mix for that purpose. How much data are you talking about?

Magnetic may also be an option minus a emp burst or mega magnet near the media, as there are still working VHS tapes made 35 years ago, but finding a player theses days is getting harder and what happens if you used beta vs VHS

 

[Bandalo]

There's a VERY small chance that anything will survive that long without damage. Not CD, DVD, M-Disc, tape, HDD, SSD, nothing. The odds of finding a WORKING device that can read your selected media are even more slim after that long.

Have the pictures printed on good quality long-life photo paper, and print out or hand-write any notes or letters. Then pack plenty of desiccant and vacuum seal stuff in a couple layers and hope for the best.

 

[Flybye]

I would literally print and vacuum seal the binary data I wished to leave along with a copy on Milleniatta’s M-Disc DVD and Blu-ray recordable discs which are rated for 1,000 years just in case they could still read optical discs - something I actually believe is highly likely. I would also include a copy on my second choice choice , that would be archival quality ROM , which companies like SanDisk developed a long time ago along with the specs for reading the chips. I mean if I can cobble together a replacement circuit for a 60 year old analogue tape drive, someone in the future can cobble together a digital circuit to read a ROM if they have the specs.

Exactly! There is always someone in the family crafty enough to do something like this. "Hey, great grandpa left these discs for us to see, and the pc he left us to see them with doesnt work." Crafty family member: "I'll get us something to view them with."
Thanks for the M-Disc info. Ill look those up and consider Blu-rays.

 

[Flybye]

I would vote an optical backup solution as well. Assuming they could access the data it has a good chance to survive. Maybe add some kind of player to the mix for that purpose. How much data are you talking about?

Magnetic may also be an option minus a emp burst or mega magnet near the media, as there are still working VHS tapes made 35 years ago, but finding a player theses days is getting harder and what happens if you used beta vs VHS

Not sure to how much data, but at least 4-8GB of pics and videos. Oh for sure I'll be adding a player. Besides a laptop a USB DVD or BR drive would probably be a good idea. Even decades later there are still parallel port and serial port to USB adapters. No reason to think someone 100yrs from now wont have vintage USB to whatever port adapters.

 

[Flybye]

There's a VERY small chance that anything will survive that long without damage. Not CD, DVD, M-Disc, tape, HDD, SSD, nothing. The odds of finding a WORKING device that can read your selected media are even more slim after that long.

Have the pictures printed on good quality long-life photo paper, and print out or hand-write any notes or letters. Then pack plenty of desiccant and vacuum seal stuff in a couple layers and hope for the best.

Do you have thoughts on M-Disc?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

And Id pack an optical with AND a laptop.

 

[chenw]

M-Disc is only a storage medium.

Data is only useful if we can still interpret that data in 100 years:

1. Will the device continue to work in 100 years?
2. Will there be any device that can extract the data from the storage medium?
3. Will the data be compatible or meaningful to computers then?
4. Hell, would humans or the languages we speak even be around in 100 years?

Too many unknowns that is outside the bounds of the storage medium itself.

 

[whateverer]

M-Disc is only a storage medium.

Data is only useful if we can still interpret that data in 100 years:

1. Will the device continue to work in 100 years?
2. Will there be any device that can extract the data from the storage medium?
3. Will the data be compatible or meaningful to computers then?
4. Hell, would humans or the languages we speak even be around in 100 years?

Too many unknowns that is outside the bounds of the storage medium itself.

We already discussed the viability of optical media. Just because Apple pretends you don't need it, doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees.

There are still tons of people out there with piss-poor capped internet connections, even for those who live close to civilization. And for those who live further out, optical disc is the ONLY reliable way to buy and transport/store video.

The rest of the world isn't going to fix the internet problem anytime soon. So yes,12" optical disc readers will be around for at least another 50 years. And they'll likely be compatible with those MDISC, which are just normal Blu-Ray discs made with a long-life design.

Because we've been supporting backward-compatibility since the first optical discs gained popularity. Your current cheap Blu-Ray player still plays 35-year-old CDs, 25-year-old DVDs, and a more limited list even support VCDs (even though those weren't nearly as popular).

When BluRay was first released, they didn't support CDs, but people bitched and that quickly changed. And people still use those things a decade later, even if the sales of physical discs are falling. So that's why I say you'll get at least 50 years of viable read life from mainstream drives. And BluRay has definitely reached mainstream acceptance.

 

[Nenu]

Yep, use a system backup.
Keep it on an old hard drive.
Refresh it every 5 years on a new old hard drive.

You can run it in a VM, no need to keep more hardware.