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Hardware/Software problem... not sure

B

Bauman

n00b
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Messages
48
OK... here's my long and detailed story of what I did this weekend:

I had a 2500+, Soyo Dragon Ultra Platinum (KT400 chipset), cheap PSU (I know that's bad, don't need to be lectured), 1GB (1 stick) generic RAM, ATI Radeon 9600 Pro, 3 dvd drives, 2 HDDs, 4 fans. This computer has worked fine for a year now.


I bought a 64-bit 3400+ (Newcastle, 130nm), Asus A8V Deluxe (I believe it's Rev.2), 1 GB (dual-channel) PDP Patriot RAM, 2 new DVD drives. I wanted to test this setup out in my old case with old PSU since my new case and PSU won't be here till tomorrow (Tuesday).

I changed everything over on the inside and my computer wouldn't boot up. I figured out when I took the mobo out that the RAM wasn't seated properly. I then reseated it and it booted properly. I tried to install Windows XP Pro onto one of the 2 previously used HDDs, I had emptied this one of data, but did not fdisk or anything like that. I kept getting BSOD with "Page Fault in Non-Paged Area", etc (all of those memory related BSODs). So, I tried taking out 1 of the sticks and installing... still got BSODs. I tried the other stick and bam... no BSOD. However, this time I kept getting CRC errors, and when I looked at the bottom of the install disc I saw that it was in pretty bad shape. So... now I have to wait to get another install cd (from a friend of mine) - it'll be a couple of days.

Very disappointed at myself... I tried to put together the old computer again to use in the meantime. I had everything hooked back up, except that I substituted my generic RAM for my new Patriot RAM (PC2700 old ram vs. PC3200 new ram). I had all of the fans hooked up daisy-chain style going around the back of the computer case (to make it look neat, this is the first time I've tried doing that, which I've seen on this forum a lot). When I booted up, I noticed that nothing was happening and that the fans were, sort of... speeding up and then slowing down again, on and off. I shut it down because it didn't sound right. I then tried starting up again, stupid me. I left it on for a little longer this time... and a chip melted and fell off of the motherboard. :(

Now, I'm really starting to feel shitty, so I take a nap.

I get up and decide to try 1 more thing - hooking up my old hard drive, the old master drive with XP already installed (as well as all of my other drivers for my old mobo, etc). The first time I start up, works fine, I have to install new drivers for audio, USB, etc, but it works! Reboot a few times, no problem.

A little while later, I'm on the internet (IE) and the computer randomly reboots itself. I restart, try to play Enemy Territory, computer reboots. I install an older version of the Catalyst drivers, and that takes care of the Enemy Territory problem... but it's still rebooting randomly, and seems to be only when I have an IE window open, but it's random as to whether or not it's going to reboot when I open up a window. Then, I realize, that I'm not even sure if it IS rebooting. Now, the monitor stops getting a signal, but the power is still on to everything - I'm not really sure what's going on with it anymore.

I think there must still be some conflict with the new chip/mobo and how the old drivers were setup. But, I'm worried it may be a PSU problem and that the internet explorer thing is just a coincidence.

I sold my old computer to a friend, who paid me already so I could purchase my new stuff... and now I have to get in a new mobo for him. I'm fine with that, but when my new case comes in tomorrow and I try to put my new stuff in that, with the new PSU, I don't know what's going to happen, and I can't install a new version of XP for a few days still till I get a new cd.

Does anyone have any ideas on what may be the problem? Does it seem like the PSU is the problem? I didn't have any problems with it before when I had ALL of those things hooked up. Do you think it's just a conflict with software that will be fixed once I get a fresh install of XP on there? I have a copy of 64-bit XP Pro that I downloaded from Microsoft... should I try installing that on the empty drive and see if I'm still getting the error? I'm going to make a different thread in the OS forum to ask more about 64-bit XP.

Any help on this is GREATLY appreciated.

-Brian
 
can u sum it up shorter? i dont feel like reading :rolleyes:
 
First. For any Memory related errors download and run Memtest86.
You don't need a working hard drive to run it so your ok.

Second. Check your Temps and Voltages both in the bios and if possible under full load.
Are you Prime95 stable and can you loop 3dMark ok.
How much above room temps are you running and are the voltages within spec when you stress the computer.

Third. Check for electrical shorts.
Is there an extra standoff behind the mobo.
Have you trapped one of the fans wires.

Fourth. Run a Hard Drive checker.
You can download one from your Hard Drive makers home page.

If these checks turn out fine then start thinking software.

Luck.......... :D
u=Tigerbiten.gif
 
OK, here's an update, and I'm still having a huge problem:

Ran memtest86, 1 of my 2 sticks is bad and I have to send them both back to newegg. The other checked out fine (but it was a matched pair, so they both go back).

Took out the floppy drive, still reboots.

Took out the second IDE channel with my DVD drives on it, still reboots. However, something curious happens when I do this. When I have cables in both ide channels on the mobo, the whole system starts up right away after I turn on the PSU power. BUT, when I have just 1 of the cables in the primary IDE channel, I have to push the power switch on the case after I turn on the PSU power. Does that make any sense to anyone??

I've tried a fresh install of windows XP and it STILL does this rebooting.

The rebooting itself is strange because I lose my video, everything inside the computer is still running normally it looks like, no power bumps, fans stopping, etc. When I try to do something on the keyboard, nothing happens (example: hit Num Lock or Caps Lock and the light doesn't change on the keyboard). Then after about a minute maybe the video comes back and it's the Asus splash screen going through POSTing again and starting up.

I'm really stumped and can't figure it out. It doesn't have any problem at all certain times, like when I'm playing Enemy Territory (or any game so far for that matter), I can play for HOURS without a reboot.

At this point I think it's either something wrong with the mobo physically (still doesn't explain the playing game vs. everything else I do), or a problem with the Asus mobo drivers (which I've tried to get the latest off of the website, and I think I have all of the newest drivers, but I'm not 100% sure).

Any ideas at all?
 
I'm still looking for some serious help with this. I just replaced the mobo because I RMA'd the last one thinking it was a problem with the memory controller or something. The new one still does it.

Also, the other day I had it not hooked up to the internet for a few hours and it worked perfectly. Could there be something wrong where the LAN driver is screwy? But, I can play online without any problems, so I pretty much ruled that out. It's a really strange problem. If someone has any ideas or think they may be able to help somehow, could you please reply to this thread, write me a PM, or e-mail me at Loncto@gmail.com?

I'm really kind of depressed about this now because this SUCKS.
 
WTF?

It's the PSU all along. It worked for your old one. Newer stuff don't always work with old PSU's. That is bad. Get that new PSU to fix you right up. It's not worth trying to make it work. It's sooo the PSU.

-J.
 
I wasn't using my old psu, I was using a brand spankin' new one. But... just to rule out the PSU, I put in my old psu and took out the new one - same problems!

The ONLY piece of hardware I haven't troubleshooted is the video card, that's the only piece of hardware (besides the CPU I should say) that I can give a try.

I've noticed 2 things -
1) Can the pressure on the cpu from the hsf cause problems like these? What kinds of problems can too much pressure cause? I've got a thermalright xp-90 w/ Antec 90mm fan.
2) It seems like the rebooting focuses a lot around viewing internet pages, particularly those with photos on them. I know that SP2 does a lot of changing the way that photos are handled. Could this be part of the problem? Could it be a software issue?

Please reply with any suggestions or input - this is driving me crazy!
 
Okay. Let me ask you something. Did you put SP2 over SP1? Or did you have a full format and put in SP2? The first case would obviously give you lots of problems. Not all have successful reports with SP2 on top of SP1 (conflicts I would say). If you did that way, then you should've uninstalled all of your drivers and then install SP2. That way, it would be smooth.

As for pressure, I've not heard a case about *pressure*. Unless you're speaking of imbalanced in/out fans. Check how many you have, they should be 1:1 at least. Other than that, why should there be a problem?

Now, I didn't know it was the *looking at the photos* that caused your computer to be all randomly stupid. But it doesn't make sense because you're still in a 2D environment when watching photos. Again, there might be a conflict. Or it may sound like something buggy is going on. Try trendmicro.com for their free anti-virus scanning and the anti-spyware software of your choice.

And of course, I would hope you have a back up PCI video card or even anything capable of outputting an image on your monitor. Try that.

We'll see what goes on from there.

-J.
 
very interesting... very interesting indeed. can you give us pix of this thing randomly dying?
 
I installed "Windows with SP2", so it's not installing sp2 over sp1.

I have a geforce 5200 that I could try right now.

In terms of pressure I meant the hsf being too tight on the cpu. It's a really big and heavy heatsink with some strong springs on it.

I hadn't really associated the problem with looking at photos until recently. I've noticed that doing certain things virtually guarantee it'll reboot itself - one of these is going to maximonline and looking at photos.

I'm currently using Norton for anti-virus and Ad-aware for adware. I'll run them again tonight, but I did that a week ago.

I can try and get some photos if I borrow my friend's digital camera, but it wouldn't really show much. What it would show is me working on my computer, the screen going black, all fans, leds, etc still working (no power bump/stoppage at all whatsoever), but when I use the keyboard I get no response (ie - hitting num lock does not turn the little light on or off). Then, about 1 minute later it would show the Asus splash screen for booting up.
 
don't recall if i said this before... get spybot: search & destroy. ad-aware misses things... things that spybot gets.
 
Ahhhh!!!

Go to your BIOS... and reset it to the fail-safe option.

See if that works.

(That fixed my problem with my Asus-based motherboard when it randomly reboots with a splash screen...)

-J.
 
I'll give it a go as soon as I get home from work...

Where is this fail-safe option? I went through the whole BIOS and couldn't find anything dealing with fail-safe options.
 
Well, is there any RESET option? If not, reset it manually by taking out your CMOS battery and plugging it back in (10 seconds minimum).

-J.
 
I'll try taking the battery out and resetting the CMOS. I don't see any fail-safe option, and it's a brand-new Asus board (I mean, it's for the socket 939 so...). I'll also put the latest BIOS on there before I try the CMOS to see if they added this option or something.

My last resort, which I hate because I don't trust people, is to take it to this computer shop near me and go over everything with them, see if they have any ideas.

Unfortunately, I now have a sinking feeling that it's the CPU, which is now out of the 30 day warranty by tigerdirect since I've been checking everything else first. Last night the computer rebooted itself when I wasn't even at my desk and it was unglugged from the internet.

I've been trying to look into the windows logs to see if anything's fishy there and all I find are some system errors about too many TCP connections and another series of application events where telnet was started - and I don't do anything with telnet. I haven't been able to figure those out, but I ran Norton with the newest def files and it didn't come up with anything.

Curious thing #2 - I was listening to music and the screen went dead but the music still played for 10-15 seconds and then it got choppy and stopped. Then the computer rebooted itself.

Thanks for all of your help GeForceX, I'm lost now, and I wish that my $800 wasn't wasted. (I can't find a 3400 s939 chip anywhere without having to buy a motherboard too, and I don't have another $400 to spend on the whole package). Another thing I might try is a different copy of Windows, maybe mine isn't so good.... (if you catch my drift). I have a free copy of Windows XP 64 that maybe I'll try and see if I get the same rebooting problems, I don't know. I'm not really sure what the next troubleshooting step is.
 
hmmm... it almost is beginning to sound like a modem problem now... what can you tell us about your connection? isp?
 
I wouldn't think that it's a problem with ethernet now because, like I said, it rebooted randomly when I wasn't connected to the internet - I had the ethernet cord unplugged from the computer.

I'm using the onboard LAN card (it's a Yukon), and my isp is Adelphia Powerlink (cable internet)
 
Still going on? :( Was the CMOS reset yet? It sounds like something's failing. I'm sure you did some memory tests and so on. What about CPU temps? Does it look okay or fall below 50 C? While the computer's on, try touching each parts of your CPU, onboard chips of the motherboard and see which parts feel hot (though that's not a very accurate indicator of instability). Try disabling your ethernet instead (if it's onboard) through your BIOS. Try disabling a lot of things that you don't use and try disabling things that you DO use (such as FDD controller, etc) and see how it goes? See if it's still unstable. Try taking out parts of your computer that has no "necessity" such as floppy drive, cd drives, extra PCI slots. Try ordering another 3400+ CPU (how could it not be anywhere? It's definitely out there) and see if that actually works. You should negotiate with TigerDirect and tell them that it was defective all along! They *should* accept it back. It only takes so much time before a product can turn out to be defective.

-J.
 
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