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Hacking Thyself (Yes, im crazy)

Victor00

n00b
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
25
Well, uh, hmm what to say. Heres my idea, id like any thoughts you have on it. It's an interesting concept if nothing else and im crazy enough to go through with it if at all possible. There may be a few spelling or grammer errors, I wrote the majority of this at 5AM on very little sleep and without the aid of spell check.

Machine-To-Human Interface Concept By Victor

I guess I should begin with some images.

Pic 1 Pic 2

What your looking at is an image of a tattoo I recently received. The design comes from the anime series Ghost in the Shell. Its a copy of the neural interface jacks the characters have. Of course this is only a tattoo and is really only for astetics. While joking about glueing jacks to my skin for halloween I came up with a novel idea, there is a way I could possibly interface with a machine.

People can get what are called nape piercings, or essentially bars put through the skin on the back of their necks. My idea was that I could get small bars pierced within the circles and then attach electrodes to those. What this would allow me to do is send small pulses of electricity through the piercings that I could feel. Not strong enough to cause pain just sense. With four electrodes I would have multiple 'input' paths, I could control the voltage going to each one. With a proper controller and the right software I could develop sequences to pulse over the electrodes to transmit data. It would work a lot like morse code only this I believe would be more efficent because there are more possibile unique patterns possible with four electrodes.

Here is a breakdown of events in the case of transmitting a word.

1. Program reads word and sends data to controller over USB.
2. Controller picks up data and encodes it into the correct sequence of pulses.
3. Controller transmits sequence over wires to electrodes.
4. Electrodes produce the pattern of sensation at the contact points.
5. My mind translates the sequence of letters into the word.

Of course this system is one-way as only the machine can transmit data to me using this method. The unknown factor is how well or even if I will be able to translate these signals, it will be a conscous effort. I believe with enough time and training it may become intuitive but this is mere speculation on my part. There is also the possibility that the contact points are to close and I would not be able to differentiate the signals, this would take some testing to determine.

I believe this system could also be used to provide additional input paths for wearable computing projects.

I chose USB as my computer-to-controller interface because it is powered. It could provide the low-voltages to make this system work. I would like the jacks themselves to be something like A/V cables, the reason I like these instead of RJ-45 or similar jacks becase if they get tugged they will just pull free with minimal pain on my part.

The most mysterious part of this whole project is my idea of the controller box. I know that this is possible but I have no idea on the specifics. It would have to be able to switch voltages based on the data sent to it through USB. Im not sure if the 5V USB puts out would be enough to sense or even to much, I will have to test it out. I doubt I would be able to build this on my own but if I can get the idea down there are people I know locally able to produce custom electronics.

I believe the hardest part of this whole idea is the control software. Beyond HTML, XML, and some light C/C++ I have little knowledge of programming. It will probably take me a great deal of time to research/develop it on my own without any assisstance if at all. If your interested let me know :D

Well this is the idea in a nutshell really. Please feel free to pick out any holes in my logic, the tattoo ink might be affecting my thought processes :) I know this is sort of an odd place to post this sort of idea, but hell, if this isn't a [H]ard idea I don't know what is.
 
Anyone ever work with STAMP modules like these. Think they might solve the 'controller box' problem when combined with something like this.
 
son.. i highly suggest smoking cigarettes instead..

edit..

or if you actually wanna be [H] go ahead and wire yourself to a powerline.. your a pussy if you accept anything under 200amps!

"GET 'ER DONE!!!!" :cool:
 
Originally posted by Jason711
son.. i highly suggest smoking cigarettes instead..

edit..

or if you actually wanna be [H] go ahead and wire yourself to a powerline.. your a pussy if you accept anything under 200amps!

"GET 'ER DONE!!!!" :cool:
Be sure to get someone to record it, because when you "fry your circuits", someone has to share it with the internet.
 
Originally posted by CrunkyMunkey
Be sure to get someone to record it, because when you "fry your circuits", someone has to share it with the internet.

ill bring the marshmellows... the white/blue flames are gonna be amazing.. :eek:
 
Id be damn sure this thing has no way to kill me before I attempted it. I might be crazy but that doesn't make me stupid. And sure, recording video/pics doesnt sound like a bad idea at all. Plus im sure you guys will love to see the voltage tolerance test and what not.

In the unlikely chance this goes wrong Ill make sure someone has instructions to post here with pics just in case.
 
The most frightening part of this is how well thought out it was.
 
oh man, this is funny, just make sure when you plug yourself in you have the video camera going. :D
 
All jokes aside, the USB port delivers 5V @ 500mA. 80mA though the heart pretty much fries it.

Much human-computer interfaces have very specific data paths and implants direct to nerve / receptors etc.

Id be pretty carefull, 5V can cause a load of pain to uninsulated tissue....
 
Originally posted by sev
All jokes aside, the USB port delivers 5V @ 500mA. 80mA though the heart pretty much fries it.

Much human-computer interfaces have very specific data paths and implants direct to nerve / receptors etc.

Id be pretty carefull, 5V can cause a load of pain to uninsulated tissue....

its gonna have to run through the chest first...

IE.. grabbing something with both hands.. it will run straight through the chest to the other hand..

and i believe you can survive 80mA pretty easily..
 
nape.jpg


like this?
 
i think this is the work of the devil at hand it is like 666 on your forehead and all taht stuff better not do that

-warsaw
 
If this guy does go through with this, he will make Charles Darwin a very very happy man.
 
Originally posted by Jason711
...and i believe you can survive 80mA pretty easily..


famous last words.

j/k lol :D


im am sure some scientist in some lab somewhere have been doing stuff like this for years. maybe you can find some info on it. anyway, lets just say you get this wo work without commiting yourself to a wheelchair for life. My question is, why? big deal... the computer sends you some pulse and after months of training and self-torture, you figure out the pulses equal the word "Pointless." The wires running to your ass will be short enough for you to see the computer screen anyway.
 
Keep us posted, this will be really cool, or realy funny. Both are worth reading :cool:
 
W/E you do dont go getting this connected to anime or else we wont see ANYTHING new in the states for a few years...

Blah.
 
perhaps if it was linked to a transformer... just raise the volts... ALOT.. hahah..

which would be pretty harmless as it would reduce the current the same amount..
 
Originally posted by ewarz
My question is, why? big deal... the computer sends you some pulse and after months of training and self-torture, you figure out the pulses equal the word "Pointless." The wires running to your ass will be short enough for you to see the computer screen anyway.
 
Originally posted by sev
All jokes aside, the USB port delivers 5V @ 500mA. 80mA though the heart pretty much fries it.
Meaning, it delivers 5V, and can deliver up to 0.5A before a fuse cuts it off. I = V/R. The human body present significant impedance. You can't electrocute yourself on USB. :rolleyes:

Anyway, back on topic, this sounds like a patently silly idea. Go for it. :)
 
Yeah I was unaware of the amperage USB puts out but I had planned on redundant fuses and such to basically nullify any chance of frying myself. I just threw the concept up to see what people would say about it.

As far as the jokes go, this is USB, not a 120 line lol. Im still doing the research but as far as I can tell the idea is feasable. I believe ive found the components I need for the controller box I just need to find something on programming USB interfaces or at least find someone who can.

I'll make sure to detail everything if I go through with this. Pictures and such, could write up a small article on it.

As far as utility, well this is yet to be fully seen. Part of the reason to do it is to see what kind of crazy uses I can think of. There are plenty of ways to vary the sequences to provide different types of input. Besides just seuences I could have it gradually increase/decrease voltage to show other types of info. Depending on the complexity of the software and my eventual ability to translate the signals effectively there could be a number of interesting applications.

And come on, your on the [H] forum, who wouldn't want to have a USB interface :D
 
Also for you big anime fans i'll be sure not to include any refrences to GitS. Im a big fan to (duh).

As far as similar projects being done this is true. There is a professor out there with a wireless tranceiver implanted in his arm. Of course this is actually connected to the nerves using 'micro-bands' around the nerve bundles. Failing that I don't know any neurosurgeons and have limited funds this isn't exactly something I could do. The beatuy of my idea is really its simplicity.
 
But where does the Arctic Silver go?:eek:

Seriously.....Everything began and begins with an idea.
I saw a documentary once where this guy sews together a body and then adds some lightining and boom this thing is walking around. No heart failure there. I think his name was something like Frankelsteen or somethin!
 
I like it. If nothing else, you could rig up some sort of a portable way to tell time through it, then amaze everyone at how you always know what time it is without having to look at a watch like everyone else. :D
 
you mean like my neck???


nape.jpg


not sure if im willing to hook up jumper cables....
 
Originally posted by ullyeus
you mean like my neck???


nape.jpg


not sure if im willing to hook up jumper cables....


Your piercings look crooked :D So what radio stations can you catch with 'em? Anyway, that looks painful.
 
Originally posted by ewarz
Your piercings look crooked :D So what radio stations can you catch with 'em? Anyway, that looks painful.

hehe, they are straight I assure you :) Just my head tilted a bit.

course Its pretty hard for me to see them.... :)
 
Originally posted by Stiletto One
Meaning, it delivers 5V, and can deliver up to 0.5A before a fuse cuts it off. I = V/R. The human body present significant impedance. You can't electrocute yourself on USB. :rolleyes:

Anyway, back on topic, this sounds like a patently silly idea. Go for it. :)

If you bypass the skin, your body's internal resistance is actually quite low. You can die from a 9V battery, if the current passes through your heart.

On topic.. sounds interesting.. :p
I'm sure I can read faster though.
 
Originally posted by defcom_1
If you bypass the skin, your body's internal resistance is actually quite low. You can die from a 9V battery, if the current passes through your heart.

On topic.. sounds interesting.. :p
I'm sure I can read faster though.

A 9v battery wouldn't do anything passing throught the bulk of your chest, hooked directly across your heart, yeah..

defibrillators have a HELL of alot more power going trough them then 9v, skin doesnt block that much.
 
Originally posted by Big Worm
A 9v battery wouldn't do anything passing throught the bulk of your chest, hooked directly across your heart, yeah..

defibrillators have a HELL of alot more power going trough them then 9v, skin doesnt block that much.

Skin blocks a huge percentage, especially dry skin. The percentage blocked is on the magnitude of >70%. Moist skin drops that sharply, though.


Do NOT do it. You will DIE.
 
remember amps kill
volts don't:D
This is gettin kinda 3 million dollar man like (Steve Auston)
 
I believe 1 amp is enough to kill a person... My physics teacher told me that it's enough to fry you. I'm trying to remember this toy I saw at Ahhs, it's like roulette, people put a finger in one of the covers, push the button, and it'll randomly shock someone. Now those fuckers hurt like hell, but if you want to, you could try to test how each pulse of electricity feels like at varying amperages so you know exactly how strong you want it to feel... I think you'd want to put a series of resistors from the signal to your body so that you wont get shocked to death...

As for the A/V cables, try something small.. maybe 2.5mm plugs...

I don't know.. I don't think this idea of yours is an idea that should be pursued, but if you want to, go ahead....
 
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