Hackers Break HD DVD Copy Protection

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Rich Tate

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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In what will come as little to surprise to you guys, hackers have officially officially cracked the HD-DVD copy protection scheme, and are distributing films across Peer-to-Peer networks.

The hackers are distributing copies of the films using BitTorrent, a once-controversial file-sharing tool that is working to clean up its reputation by forging partnerships with TV and movie companies.
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Not a surprise to me at all. Hollywood should give up on copy protection schemes, and simply LOWER THE PRICES on their movies so that people can afford to buy them.

If they did that, the normal person is HONEST, and will buy something if they have the means to buy it. I, personally, am willing to pay an equitable rate for something, but the DVD prices, especially for box sets of series, turn me off and make me not buy or download them period.

Hollywood needs to learn that these high prices that they are charging are cutting into their sales, because the consumers and customers are getting smarter and simply doing without things that are too expensive.
 
I'm Shocked! Hacked? No way!





Seriously, it really doesn't matter what Hollywood charges. If new DVD's sold for $5.00 (packaging, shipping, marketing, store profits, etc. included) and it can be downloaded and burned for $1.00 a disc, there will still be a group of people out there that will go the cheaper route. I have no sympathies for Hollywood or the music industry, because of their long history of screwing everyone, but I do understand why they're so adament about their 'property' rights.
 
The hackers are distributing copies of the films using BitTorrent, a once-controversial file-sharing tool that is working to clean up its reputation by forging partnerships with TV and movie companies.
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In related news, the hackers recently released a brief online statement directed towards the clueless middle-aged executives who thought their "unbreakable" copyright protection was a good idea, saying, quote, "OMGWTFLOL".

Sony President Ken Kutaragi cited plans to counter this groundswell of HD-DVD content flooding the internet with online Blu-Ray films starting at $99.99 per title, citing that Blu-Ray content was "probably too cheap" to begin with.

Christopher1 said:
Not a surprise to me at all. Hollywood should give up on copy protection schemes, and simply LOWER THE PRICES on their movies so that people can afford to buy them.

If they did that, the normal person is HONEST, and will buy something if they have the means to buy it. I, personally, am willing to pay an equitable rate for something, but the DVD prices, especially for box sets of series, turn me off and make me not buy or download them period.

Hollywood needs to learn that these high prices that they are charging are cutting into their sales, because the consumers and customers are getting smarter and simply doing without things that are too expensive.
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That about hits the nail on the head. Who'd have thunk that higher prices don't necessarily result in higher profits? Gosh, economics is hard.

It's a shame that Hollywood doesn't see things the way we do. What makes this current state of affairs particularly unsettling is that a very significant part of the material that they're charging these obscene prices for is utter bunk. Rubbish. Some of it is stuff I wouldn't even touch in the bargain bin at Wal-Mart. Is it really that hard to see why nobody wants to pay $20+ for a movie that they wouldn't see if Hollywood paid them the money?
 
The pirates won? PFFFT. Consumers just won, drm is hilarious. I hope they spent MILLIONS of dollars investing it. I hope sony ceases to exist entirely, really.
 
The funniest part about Blu-Ray being cracked is that it is Sony's fault that it was cracked. If I remember correctly they are using PS3 Linux to get the D images off the disc. Since Sony allows Linux to run on the PS3 and they are counting on the PS3 to be THE Blu-Ray player out there they have essentially shot themselves and their format in the foot.
 
The merket for HD DVD players and recorders will explode after this gets around. They shouldn't crack blue-ray, just let that format die a slow death.
 
messerchmidt said:
how if only LG would produce a cheap HD-DVD and Blue-ray recorder....
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It will just take time. I remember when CD burners first came out. My best friend paid like $400 for one. The DVD burner I have in my box now I paid $80 for, now can be found for $30. Give it a year or so...

It's not that I'm pro-piracy, Its that I'm anti copy protection/DRM, etc... You cant stop piracy. It's been around since the dawn of computers. In fact it was more accepted back in the day.
I rember having my Apple][C. There was no where to find software for it. You couldn't walk into a bestbuy, EB, gamestop, walmart, etc. and pick up a game. There were computer clubs that met monthly and people would bring software and you would trade software... (That's where I learned to program, BTW)
It was probably illegal, but there was no easier way to find software. People are doing the same thing basicly now, it's just more efficient today (thanks to this "internet fad"):)
 
Incase you guys didn't know, Musix released BackupBlu-Ray already.. rofl. The only thing you have to worry about with Blu-Ray is the BD+ thing.. but it isn't in effect yet.

But, backing up my HD DVD's is actually as easy if not easier than normal DVD's. All I need now is a HDDVD-RW. The movies are eating up my hard drive space. =(((
 
Old_Way said:
I'm Shocked! Hacked? No way!





Seriously, it really doesn't matter what Hollywood charges. If new DVD's sold for $5.00 (packaging, shipping, marketing, store profits, etc. included) and it can be downloaded and burned for $1.00 a disc, there will still be a group of people out there that will go the cheaper route. I have no sympathies for Hollywood or the music industry, because of their long history of screwing everyone, but I do understand why they're so adament about their 'property' rights.
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You are wrong, I think. People I know, including myself, would buy the movies if Hollywood charged $5-10max (for new releases). I wouldn't risk getting the movies by other means if they prices were just lower.
 
ValeX said:
Exactly. I simply can't afford to waste an entire 20 dollar bill for 2 hours of entertainment. It's simply not worth it. 10 dollars should be the absolute max a movie costs, the average should be around 4 bucks, then it's something i'd go crazy with and buy 5 movies....Hey wait a minute, you mean the entertainment companies STILL got my 20 bucks? AND I GOT MORE ENTERTAINMENT FOR IT!? AND I WONT BE PIRATING ANYMORE? :eek: :eek: Oh, wait, thats a stupid idea isn't it?.....*sigh* i tried.
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That's called the "Because It Makes Sense" syndrome. First, you get a good idea. Then as you're thinking about it, mid-thought you realize it'll never work because it makes sense. Then, you let it go. :D

I was fully expecting another "black marker" fiasco, actually... :D
 
Christopher1 said:
Not a surprise to me at all. Hollywood should give up on copy protection schemes, and simply LOWER THE PRICES on their movies so that people can afford to buy them.

If they did that, the normal person is HONEST, and will buy something if they have the means to buy it. I, personally, am willing to pay an equitable rate for something, but the DVD prices, especially for box sets of series, turn me off and make me not buy or download them period.

Hollywood needs to learn that these high prices that they are charging are cutting into their sales, because the consumers and customers are getting smarter and simply doing without things that are too expensive.
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I'm all for lower prices but I think your logic is flawed. They are under no obligation whatsoever to release lower price and you are not justified to pirate them if it is too expensive for you. If a BMW or Mercedes is too expensive for you, do you steal them? No you learn to live without it or work harder to earn it.
 
saintrobyn said:
The funniest part about Blu-Ray being cracked is that it is Sony's fault that it was cracked. If I remember correctly they are using PS3 Linux to get the D images off the disc. Since Sony allows Linux to run on the PS3 and they are counting on the PS3 to be THE Blu-Ray player out there they have essentially shot themselves and their format in the foot.
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I heard of people using the PS3 linux to somehow maybe find the keys or something... But I don't think that it was used to actually obtain the files. Who knows. muslix64 posted yesterday about how he easily used the same attack on Blu-Ray.
 
if hollywood would stop paying actors/actresses $15,000,000 or more per film than they wouldn't have to charge so much to get a decent ROI.

I personally purchase prefer to own my movies vs dl'ng
 
rahavsmt said:
I'm all for lower prices but I think your logic is flawed. They are under no obligation whatsoever to release lower price and you are not justified to pirate them if it is too expensive for you. If a BMW or Mercedes is too expensive for you, do you steal them? No you learn to live without it or work harder to earn it.
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If I could clone one of my Mercedes' for a cost of $1 yeah, I would do it. If the said Mercedes would subsequently be also manufactured for a net worth of $0.4 would you pay $40k for it? No.
 
Rich Tate said:
...hackers have officially cracked the HD-DVD copy protection scheme..
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That's actually not true. AACS has not been cracked, and it's unlikely that it will be cracked in the future. The developers of AACS must have learned from the CSS fiasco, unless there are serious flaws in the system, it will be impossible to break in an acceptable timeframe (i.e. less than, say, an hour for decryption).

What actually happened is that someone found the AACS Volume Key in his computer's memory while playing an HD-DVD, and after some playing around, was able to write a program that uses this key to decrypt the HD-DVD's content. The key was found in the memory because some HD-DVD playback software put it there. It was not found on the disc itself.

This has several consequences: Chances are slim that there'll be reliable one-click HD disc backup solutions, because those programs won't get the decryption keys from the disc. If you don't have an AACS-certified software that puts the key into RAM without protecting it, you can't decrypt the disc.

Furthermore, the playback software will be fixed pretty fast to protect the keys. And while today's discs are decryptable, the next generation of discs will have the 'flawed' version of said program on an internal blacklist, so you won't be able to decrypt future HD-DVDs. It's pretty much the same with BD-ROM (whose AACS implementation was purportedly bypassed on an X-BOX 360), with an update for the X-BOX and a blacklist for the current software version, this hole will have been fixed. Additionally, BD-ROM still has the BD+ ace up their sleeve, which will probably be a totally different thing to bypass.

This is a great first step towards HD backups, but by no means the end of HD content protection. Unlike CSS, this doesn't use an inherent AACS flaw, but rather a problem with the playback software which will probably be fixed in a matter of weeks.
 
Actually, I think it was Sony's PS3 rather than the the X-BOX 360 which was used to bypass BD-ROM's AACS, and the guy who first found the HD-DVD keys used a PC to do the same with BD-ROM. Still, that doesn't change the fact that for now, this is a temporary setback for AACS.
 
I also never really buy movies because of the cost, at most I'll watch them maybe twice. It's just like my Nintendo DS. The games are like $25-35 so I actually buy quite a few, but my Xbox 360 I rarely ever buy games for because they are ridiculously expensive at $60. I am certain if the major consoles sold games for $30 instead of $60 they'd sell more than twice as many, and in turn make more money. But maybe there aren't a lot of people like me, who knows... All I know is NFL2K5 was $20 and it sold tons more than it did the previous year, causing EA to buy NFL exclusivity to bully 2k Sports out of the NFL business and relieve themselves of the major competition.
 
Finn said:
If I could clone one of my Mercedes' for a cost of $1 yeah, I would do it. If the said Mercedes would subsequently be also manufactured for a net worth of $0.4 would you pay $40k for it? No.
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Your logic is still flawed because you're failing to take into account the value of the content. While I could duplicate the contents of a DVD hundreds of times very cheaply, the content has to exist to make it worthwhile. Copyright laws provide for the ownership of that intellectual property and allow the owners of those copyrights to set their prices. At that point, legally, your three choices are to buy, to rent or to ignore - concomitant with those choices comes also the right to complain about the prices; piracy is the illegal ("wrong") option.

Also, someone else mentioned TV show box set prices as being too high. I have to say that this attitude is just plain wrong. Even the expensive sets (the ones that I usually won't buy) like Star Trek shows are actually quite reasonably priced compared to movies. A full season of a modern one-hour show comes out to about 13-15 hours of content. At $100, that would be $6.60-7.60 per hour. Most season sets come in at well under that price, often as low as $30-40 or $2.00-3.00 per hour. There are exceptions, and there are half-hour sets at around $40 that end up in the higher per-hour price range, but they still end up being better values than new-release movies.

Personally, I remember when owning a movie on VHS could cost up to $50 a pop, and forget about trying to buy complete TV shows (I had more money than brains and bought around a season of X-Files on VHS for $100 or more - buying separate two-episode packs - back in the day). Content prices (at least movie/TV content) have thus come down significantly in the last 25 years and every time I go to Wal-Mart I see hundreds of DVDs available for $5-10 a piece. The idea that breaking copy protection and pirating movies and TV is some sort of righteous blow against the evil movie studios is just a crock.
 
Well honestly, I don't think it would be as big of an issue if the movie companies didn't keep putting out crap. Seriously, 70% of movies that come out are complete crap.

That's a 70% failure rate. Would you pay a premium for a product with a 70% failure rate?
 
Damuman said:
Well honestly, I don't think it would be as big of an issue if the movie companies didn't keep putting out crap. Seriously, 70% of movies that come out are complete crap.

That's a 70% failure rate. Would you pay a premium for a product with a 70% failure rate?
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That's an opinion, not a fact.
 
The same thing goes for the music companies.

Honestly when I see something I really like the quality of, movie or music, I buy it to support that. I refuse to support lazy people getting payed for nothing.
 
You know what the real problem is? It is this global community we have.

When a piece of data is posted. We have the ability to copy said data bit for bit. Protection included (with the right program) to another like disk. Well if and when blue ray disks become available.

We have this global community of hackers... well of bored intelligent people who take unbreakable as a challenge.

I suggest checking that out.
 
Damuman said:
If you actually enjoy all the music movies that come out... and honestly feel like they're quality products...

then I think there's something wrong there.
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If you look at it that way, why not just suppress everyone's love for something? Sounds kinda like a dictatorship or worse. Someone out there will like the content. Personally, I'll take anything in 1080p. I think its great the HD revolution is expanding, even if it means gay porn, even though I'll won't watch it. Surely someone will, and they will like it.
 
w1retap said:
If you look at it that way, why not just suppress everyone's love for something? Sounds kinda like a dictatorship or worse. Someone out there will like the content. Personally, I'll take anything in 1080p. I think its great the HD revolution is expanding, even if it means gay porn, even though I'll won't watch it. Surely someone will, and they will like it.
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Ok I think ur kind of missing the point.

If you're paying a premium for gay porn, it should be QUALITY gay porn. With storylines and cinematography and everything (yes I know no porno really does that).

Now what your saying is that I'm trying to erase gay porn. That's not the case, I just want them to make QUALITY gay porn if they're gonna expect people to pay for it.

Well not ME PERSONALLY, but you get the point.
 
No, you are still just expressing your opinion. I understood what you said quite well.
 
For me anyway, copy/content protection IS the dealbreaker. $15-$20 I can understand for some films, but if I cannot do whatever I want within the bounds of "personal use" (copy it to a portable device, keep a copy on my computer to avoid having to put the disc in, etc) with the media I buy, or even make good on fair use allowances, did I really get my money's worth.

Moreover, quality dvd players used to be a substantial investment, and HD players now represent a large amount of money. One of my friends, an early adopter of DVD technology, had to replace/supplement a nice plater with a walmart special because suddenly the copy protection could not be decrypted by his old player. It is not unreasonable to expect this to happen with DH formats as well.
 
Damuman said:
Ok I think ur kind of missing the point.

If you're paying a premium for gay porn, it should be QUALITY gay porn. With storylines and cinematography and everything (yes I know no porno really does that).

Now what your saying is that I'm trying to erase gay porn. That's not the case, I just want them to make QUALITY gay porn if they're gonna expect people to pay for it.
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Never seen someone use all three at the same time :p
 
The "$20 for a movie is too much" argument is flawed above and beyond the "stealing is wrong" rebuttal.

Just wait a year and go to Target. If it's still $20 it's very likely worth it. More likely it will cost much less. Can't hack the wait? That's your problem.

Or, get it on cable or On Demand or Netflix when it's out, and watch it for a few bucks. After all, if the quality of the movies are SO bad, they're not worth watching more than once, right? Plus, there's no pressing need for you to own that terrible movie either. Right?

Piracy sucks. So does DRM (and the MPAA and RIAA) but it's mostly a consequence of piracy.
 
eggrock said:
Piracy sucks. So does DRM (and the MPAA and RIAA) but it's mostly a consequence of piracy.
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Mostly?

Doubt it. It's a consequence of greed and ass-sticks. They think they're so cool representing and protecting intellectual property.

Many artists will say it isn't about the money. They're lying, of course, but if it were true then they shouldn't care about distributing their work for free or for almost nothing. The RIAA and MPAA just want the money themselves.

Bill Gates once said as long as people pirate operating systems, he hopes they pirate his.

This debate is endless.
 
-(Xyphox)- said:
OMG ROFL, You cant hack THE GIBSON!
LOL
:p :p
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hackgibsonwin20sykotik5zj.gif
 
GJSNeptune said:
Mostly?

Doubt it. It's a consequence of greed and ass-sticks. They think they're so cool representing and protecting intellectual property.

Many artists will say it isn't about the money. They're lying, of course, but if it were true then they shouldn't care about distributing their work for free or for almost nothing. The RIAA and MPAA just want the money themselves.

Bill Gates once said as long as people pirate operating systems, he hopes they pirate his.

This debate is endless.
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Pirating a moving != Pirating Windows OS.

Greed and ass-sticks? I agree. Me paying $18 for a new CD I like is a direct result of them spending one hundred million promoting Janet Jackson's latest pop piece of crap. There's a way around *that*, I buy used almost exclusively.

When it comes to the point of me not being able to rip a CD to MP3 or not being able to watch a DVD on my PC (which is almost here), why, I have both you (pirates) *and* the MPAA/RIIA to thank.

Some people do distribute their work for free. Check out the Baen Free Library if you like to read. Probably no one with a $100M budget for a movie, but I can remember a point in time when Metallica had a sectioned off area at their concerts for bootlegged audio and video. Now they're behind the RIIA. Why's that?

The MPAA/RIIA aren't blameless but piracy isn't changing their minds...
 
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