[H] ATI X1000 (R520) Series Eval.

Enough of this "My e-penis is longer than yours" bullshit. Save it. Just because someone does not post everyday hardly condems their opinion.
 
well im sure that we'll get a preview in good time. but driver heaven's results are very different and seems a bit off. anyone who read the driverheaven article notice it too?
 
[BB] Rick James said:
So could AA in HDR be implemented on nVidia cards some day with a driver update, or is it just not in their architecture to do so?
Click to expand...

Its a hardware feature...so no driver can do this per-say.
 
Jbirney said:
Its a hardware feature...so no driver can do this per-say.
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The problem is the FP16 render target. The G70 has a hardware limitation that it cannot apply post processing (anti-aliasing, for example) an an FP16 render target.

Ergo, FP16 HDR cannot be anti-aliased on the G70.

The r520 *can* apply image post processing (anti-aliasing, for example - and smartshaders, too, I'd presume) to an FP16 render target.

Ergo, FP16 HDR CAN be anti-aliased on the r520.
 
I just looked at the review.... One thing that HARDOCP is missing is their roots.

Kyle, you used to be the bad ass man that I trusted.. (I still trust your opionion) but I can see it's being bought by all these big players..

You used to have 2-3 page reviews, and say it right up front if the product was shit or not. Simply put the conclusion in the review is so pampered to no anger ATI...

Sorry if i sound like I'm raggin on you but hey man screw ATI just review hardware the way you used to and as long as you have readers you'll have companies sending you hardware becuase you have the loyal fan base. I never trust a result I see form tomsgayware. (yes I still remember when you and him where fighting)

I can tell you looking at the results the next line of ati cards are shit.

I've been ati since my 8500. But I'm very very glad I got a 7800GT 3 weeks ago.... I don't regret it abit after seeing these crappy numbers form ATI's cards...

Score 1 for Nvidia for taking back the market
 
Scroatdog said:
No, no such rule that I know of.

However

and

just doesn't paint the picture of someone who has been coming here for years.
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You can read these forums all day long without an account. I know because I did it for about 4 years before I actually signed up. Hell I built my first 3 computers with help received just by lurking on the [H]ardforums or from the front page reviews.

Just for the record, I also consider the [H] to be the best source of info for enthusiast/semi-enthusiast needs. Thanks for all the help Kyle, Brent and all you forum-mongers! :)
 
I find it quite interesting that people are fighting so much about this topic. In particular, I mean people who accuse Brent and Kyle of favoring certain companies and ragging on others. In fact, Brent and Kyle are ragging on certain companies - ones that either release crappy products (not the case here) and ones that can't deliver promises (definitely the case).

No matter which company they prefer, I just wish people could understand that looking at the feature set and image quality trumps any concerns about frame rate. I don't care if any game runs at 60 or 50 frames per second - how it looks is much more important. This is why apple to apple comparisons fail. I may be able to run at 1600x1200, but why should I do so if I can run all my visual options at 1280x1024? Apple to apple comparisons like this also can fail to show more subtle aspects of performance that help find specific problems with certain functions - problems that I want to know about before I put my money towards something. Incidentally, these are problems that just happen to come up often on the [H]. Coincidence? I think not.

Also, to respond to this quote....

zazzn said:
I never trust a result I see form tomsgayware. (yes I still remember when you and him where fighting)
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While I agree in not trusting results from Tom's, that doesn't mean I degrade a whole class of people.

Anyway, those were my two cents. I think you're doing a kick-ass job on the site, Kyle, and will be reading many reviews to come.
 
zazzn said:
I just looked at the review.... One thing that HARDOCP is missing is their roots.

Kyle, you used to be the bad ass man that I trusted.. (I still trust your opionion) but I can see it's being bought by all these big players..

You used to have 2-3 page reviews, and say it right up front if the product was shit or not. Simply put the conclusion in the review is so pampered to no anger ATI...

Sorry if i sound like I'm raggin on you but hey man screw ATI just review hardware the way you used to and as long as you have readers you'll have companies sending you hardware becuase you have the loyal fan base. I never trust a result I see form tomsgayware. (yes I still remember when you and him where fighting)

I can tell you looking at the results the next line of ati cards are shit.

I've been ati since my 8500. But I'm very very glad I got a 7800GT 3 weeks ago.... I don't regret it abit after seeing these crappy numbers form ATI's cards...

Score 1 for Nvidia for taking back the market
Click to expand...

Degrading a whole class just for your own stupid joke isn't funny. Grow up.
 
Why again was the X1800XT not reviewed due to it not being available for a month yet the X1600 was, even though it won't be available for months?
 
tsn | spazz said:
KYLE BANNIT FOR PRESIDENT!11

[M]

BAN ME, I DARE YOU. :rolleyes:
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HAHAHAH newb is going to get banned. Is it me or does a lot of poeple in this thread not like Kyle right now? Geez, lay off the guy. There is reason he is the editor and you ferries are not. :D

Most of the people in here are such fucking bandwagon jumpers it's not even funny, and some of you hump the legs of a brand name. While all this is going on you should be rooting for the most competition, which for us would drive down prices. ATi for the most part, so far has yet to do this. Anyone who says that they have then you are truly missing the fucking point. If you say ATi has been competitive then show me the product. Show me your new X1800 card. ATi is slipping and has been the past couple of product cycles. The reason they can get away with this (slipping and false product releases) is because of you fucking fan boys will buy the card no matter fucking what. Yes I understand this is your choice, I can't knock you for purchasing a card. I can knock you for purchasing a card just because of it's brand. However, if you woudn't this that would put pressure on the card maker who is behind to kick it up a gear or two and produce something that makes the other maker kick it up a gear as well.

Kyle did and does an excellent job at reviewing hardware.

Kyle and Brent keep up the good work.
 
[BB] Rick James said:
HAHAHAH newb is going to get banned. Is it me or does a lot of poeple in this thread not like Kyle right now? Geez, lay off the guy. There is reason he is the editor and you ferries are not. :D

Most of the people in here are such fucking bandwagon jumpers it's not even funny, and some of you hump the legs of a brand name. While all this is going on you should be rooting for the most competition, which for us would drive down prices. ATi for the most part, so far has yet to do this. Anyone who says that they have then you are truly missing the fucking point. If you say ATi has been competitive then show me the product. Show me your new X1800 card. ATi is slipping and has been the past couple of product cycles. The reason they can get away with this (slipping and false product releases) is because of you fucking fan boys will buy the card no matter fucking what. Yes I understand this is your choice, I can't knock you for purchasing a card. I can knock you for purchasing a card just because of it's brand. However, if you woudn't this that would put pressure on the card maker who is behind to kick it up a gear or two and produce something that makes the other maker kick it up a gear as well.

Kyle did and does an excellent job at reviewing hardware.

Kyle and Brent keep up the good work.
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People are mad because there seems to be a double standard going on right now with [H]. Doesn't make sense to blast ATi (just see the front page each day) and not review the X1800XT because it is not in the etail/retail channel yet he goes ahead with the X1600 product even thought it's release date is twice as far out as the X1800XT.
 
^ Atop of that the 6800U was reviewed 4 months before it came out. Also They posted that SM3.0 page on the H and it was rather Biased. All that ATi Bashing about not having True SM3.0 yet even they know its a useless feature. Atop of that anyone should be able to read "SM3.0 Done Right" And Realize that they never once said it had all the SM3.0 features but mainly were implying that its faster due to their Dynamic Branching.
I trust the [H]s Numbers but I dont like this new Bias.
 
How can SM3.0 not be a future feature people would want though? Right now I'm playing Splinter Cell Chaos Theory which uses 3.0 and it looks amazing. There is a difference in graphic quality when using SM3.0 as opposed to using SM1.1. Play the game in both 1.1 and 3.0 (in options) and you'll see the difference.
 
I havent read all 12-odd pages , but .. my question is that when these ATI cards do become available (X1600XT and X1800XT) ..it sounds like they will be more expensive or same price delta as 7800GTX and 6800'ish cards ....today

Now ..when they are released in November ...what are the price differences going to be ... then ..?

..anything nVidia now will surely be at least a few bucks cheaper then , making it even harder to justify getting an ATI card based on the [H] preview of the X1600XT and X800XL cards performances .. unless ATI does some real price slashing or whips out some miracle driver ..I dont see good things ahead in the near future for ATI in the vidcard enthusiast market.

Only reason I jumped on the nVidia bandwagon with the 6800U OC was because I couldnt find anybody to give me an XT-PE card in exchange for my moola

I'm rooten' for ATI , cause if nVidia stays on top for too long ...that's just bad business for you and me ... :(
 
Do the smart thing and put the preview up for the X1800XT, please.

Whether it's out or not, who cares, if it was paper launched? Who cares? It has nothing to do with a preview being posted. Specifically because later on you can make fun of ATI if it is paper launched, like I know you will. There really isn't a reason why there isn't a preview up IMO, a bit arbitrary to think there is. :)

~Adam
 
I think by [K]yle and the gang not putting the X1800XT preview/review on the site effectively highlights ATI's supply chain and marketing problems. I think those two departments need to lock themselves in a room for about a week and figure themselves out................but I'm sure the major shareholders have already told them that.

ATI had an opportunity to match nVidia's "launch-day availability" but squandered it. Instead, they announce all of their new cards, but the first one won't be available until next week??

What will the X1800XT do??? Like [K]yle said, there are plenty of other sites out there that have the reviews. And he won't fall under the stigma of "ATI's PR Bitch" any longer.
 
You people using a hardware thread to launch personal attacks really need to get out more!!! Your taking this realm far to seriously and doing quite a disservice to all of us that would like to discuss this latest gen hardware.

WTF is wrong with u mods clean this shit up, its called DELETE post. This crap is gettin out of hand! Hard forums = Hard arena = teh Gayness If it aint on topic it should be deleted for crying out loud jeeez.

Moderators need to quit being so personal and do there job i say. No offense [H} doods but yall are gettin way to wrapped up in your own forums on a personal level and thats kinda gay.

my post should say :

Deleted (off topic)
 
I think everyone complaining about the cards not being available on the day they are announced needs to think about this phrase: production issues. They happen, deal with it. If ATi hadn't announced their new hardware when they did then the stock price would probably have fallen a great deal since they wouldn't be seen as competitive and everyone would start complaining about the fact that ATi doesn't have a new card, blah, blah, blah.

Grow up people. Buy the fastest thing out there you can afford and be done with it!
 
How insightful, Jethro. Your comment has no hardware comments and insults gay people all at once. Try practicing what you preach.

As for hardware, I support Kyle's decision to not look at the XT model. The article as is already did the following:
  • Explained why there was a supply problem from ATi's perspective and commented on its effect on gamers
  • Explained how the video cards would work from a gamer's perspective, giving us more insight into how our hardware works
  • Compared and contrasted two entirely different classes of cards with their nearest competitors, taking the time to find the settings we as consumers would most likely use ourselves
  • Analyzed the results of those cards to see which ones meet certain needs, and who should be interested in purchasing either card
If you ask me, that's quite an article, and kudos to [H]ardOCP for doing a great job on it. If they say that the results from testing the XT are not surprising, then I, for one, believe them. Also, I'm sure there were time constraints they had to keep in mind. Personally, I would rather read a detailed review of 2 cards than a crappy review of 3.

Thanks to the [H] team for a great article!

Jethro said:
You people using a hardware thread to launch personal attacks really need to get out more!!! Your taking this realm far to seriously and doing quite a disservice to all of us that would like to discuss this latest gen hardware.

WTF is wrong with u mods clean this shit up, its called DELETE post. This crap is gettin out of hand! Hard forums = Hard arena = teh Gayness If it aint on topic it should be deleted for crying out loud jeeez.

Moderators need to quit being so personal and do there job i say. No offense [H} doods but yall are gettin way to wrapped up in your own forums on a personal level and thats kinda gay.
Click to expand...
 
While I agree its mostly absurd for ATi to continue their now 2 year long habit of not keeping up with Nvidia in terms of fully supporting various APIs and instead picking and choosing, but I do have a question to raise:

Outside of displacement mapping all the functions for hardware raytracing, advanced hardware skinning, hardware based collisions and soft body deformations, bone system generation are all purportedly within the specs of the Ageia PhysX processors.

Is it possible that ATi has considered this and simply chosen to save some silicon by not implementing features that can be performed by the PhysX? Holding to the theory that it doesn't hurt much right now?

Maybe by the time the majority of games use such calculations the PhysX will have adequate penetration to make up for the lack of GPU support for those features.

That being said I used to be an ATi !!!!!! because they were the first to do DX7 right, on the Radeon DDR, and DX8.x done perfectly in the 9700/9800. Since then they just haven't had price, performance, anfd now so puclicly features to beat out nVidia. This is all a loss.
 
Pisquared, what does it say at the end of my post?

my post should read: DELETED (off topic)
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I did post about the hardware previously as well, so i guess u didnt read whole thread.


I very much enjoyed the review. I appreciate the consumer bias alot. I dont consider it a loss at all for ATI as im a image quality freak and it would seem ATI has that in the bag this round. The new aniso setting sounds very kewl and the AA quality is superb.

The only things that concern me with ATI is its POWER usage, its a friggin monster! My pc is already a space heater with A64 and 6800GT even water cooled at that!! Also i know ill get flamed but i really like digi vibrance and so far have not been able to reproduce this on an ATI card. Thats my opinions anyways
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the whole point is that ATI Vs Nvida 1 year one will over take the other and the next year its opposite. WHO CARES! Buy what fits you what is good price. When getting a card over 300 dollars. Its going to be better than 3/4 of the whole gamer crowd. not everyone can affort upgrades every year most dont upgrade till its needed. An example is the fear requrements
radion 9000 minimum or geforce 4 Ti that is now 3 gens behind the most recent cards. If you have the best great but dont knock some one that buys the oppisite of what you bought because they are not a rich punk. Hardocp gives the bottom line. Is this card crap or does it stand vs the opisition. If it does great. If it doesnt thats fine too. Paper games whatever! Lets just wait till ppl actually have the card and use it. I have a X800 pro and love it. My cousin has a 6800 good for him. He loves his so what he gets a 100 more points on his video card score on 3d mark 05 i get 100 500 more for cpu. So what. I only hope that. Hardocp keep giving great articles on Software Hardware and all the stuff in Between Thank you Hardocp for taking the BS out and putting what matters down on record.
 
suhr65 said:
the whole point is that ATI Vs Nvida 1 year one will over take the other and the next year its opposite. WHO CARES! Buy what fits you what is good price. When getting a card over 300 dollars. Its going to be better than 3/4 of the whole gamer crowd. not everyone can affort upgrades every year most dont upgrade till its needed. An example is the fear requrements
radion 9000 minimum or geforce 4 Ti that is now 3 gens behind the most recent cards. If you have the best great but dont knock some one that buys the oppisite of what you bought because they are not a rich punk. Hardocp gives the bottom line. Is this card crap or does it stand vs the opisition. If it does great. If it doesnt thats fine too. Paper games whatever! Lets just wait till ppl actually have the card and use it. I have a X800 pro and love it. My cousin has a 6800 good for him. He loves his so what he gets a 100 more points on his video card score on 3d mark 05 i get 100 500 more for cpu. So what. I only hope that. Hardocp keep giving great articles on Software Hardware and all the stuff in Between Thank you Hardocp for taking the BS out and putting what matters down on record.
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Other than the part that was kinda hard to read, im going to give it a big QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
What happened to the November release dates that Kyle gave? If its 2 days after a launch is it still a paper launch?
 
ThreeDee said:
I havent read all 12-odd pages , but .. my question is that when these ATI cards do become available (X1600XT and X1800XT) ..it sounds like they will be more expensive or same price delta as 7800GTX and 6800'ish cards ....today
Click to expand...
That is the problem with the [H] review because all most people will remember is the first few pages where Kyle lights ATi on fire and never has a chance to recover, even if they gave it a "MUST HAVE HARDWARE". I myself left the [H] review mad (first one I read) at ATI because of the first few pages only to want one after reading other sites. What most people didn't notice is ATi released a great peice of hardware with full 32bit precision all the time and is very feature rich.
 
Whats sad is that is the gist of the review..a jab at ATI and didnt feel much like the reviews of the past. He put too much of his apparent hatred of ATI into it.He said that the cards would be available for a few weeks to next month but 2 days later they are available online. I wish the unbiased reviews that people used to be proud of the [H] for would come back. Not the venting vendettas like this one seems to be.

I know that Brent was the one the did the review and article I bielve but Kyles comment pretty much override everything Brent said in my opinion.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
What most people didn't notice is ATi released a great peice of hardware with full 32bit precision all the time and is very feature rich.
Click to expand...



Ok then...I just launched a full 64 bit precision, 100,000,000 gigapixel, 48 pipe, 32 texture unit, clocked at 2000mhz core and 2600mhz ram speed, video card. Now, go buy one. see the similarity?


I don't give a damn what they say they have, if you can't buy it, it is vaporware. Period.
 
TheRapture said:
Ok then...I just launched a full 64 bit precision, 100,000,000 gigapixel, 48 pipe, 32 texture unit, clocked at 2000mhz core and 2600mhz ram speed, video card. Now, go buy one. see the similarity?


I don't give a damn what they say they have, if you can't buy it, it is vaporware. Period.
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That's a little overboard. Vaporware is something that doesn't exist. The X1800XT obviously exists. It's late, that's the extent of the issue. Let's not get carried away.
 
BoogerBomb said:
News flash they are available.
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News Flash. The X1800XT will not be available until NOVEMBER 11.

You are getting cards mixed up. The 1800XL is the card that showed up at Newegg today, but has a 11 October shelf-hitting estimation.
 
noIinteam said:
Degrading a whole class just for your own stupid joke isn't funny. Grow up.
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Um make sense when you type.

Clearly Nvida has won this battle.

Ati was LATE to the game... Too expensive and not fast enough.... I'd love to love ATI since they are canadian but I'll take who ever makes the fastest cheapest card out there...

We are all the same thats why walmart is as big as it is...

All that chinese child labor has paid off for it by having super low prices...
 
BoogerBomb said:
Whats sad is that is the gist of the review..a jab at ATI and didnt feel much like the reviews of the past. He put too much of his apparent hatred of ATI into it.He said that the cards would be available for a few weeks to next month but 2 days later they are available online. I wish the unbiased reviews that people used to be proud of the [H] for would come back. Not the venting vendettas like this one seems to be.

I know that Brent was the one the did the review and article I bielve but Kyles comment pretty much override everything Brent said in my opinion.
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My comments were the ones that said "Editor's Note" on them and I added basically a paragraph into the conclusion.

As for the rest of it, you guys really are funny. "apparent hatred of ATI" If I had any issues with ATI, why would we give them a good review?
 
Scroatdog said:
You are getting cards mixed up. The 1800XL is the card that showed up at Newegg today, but has a 11 October shelf-hitting estimation.
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Sorry, but you're wrong. The XL is available at retail outlets. Frys has many of them, and people have bought them.

zazzn said:
Um make sense when you type.

Clearly Nvida has won this battle.

Ati was LATE to the game... Too expensive and not fast enough.... I'd love to love ATI since they are canadian but I'll take who ever makes the fastest cheapest card out there...

We are all the same thats why walmart is as big as it is...

All that chinese child labor has paid off for it by having super low prices...
Click to expand...

He did make sense. You refering to Toms as "tomsgayware" is far beyond playful. And should get you a temp ban, or at least a post edit. As they are supposed to be cracking down on personal attacks.

Clearly? Not to everyone. The GT is overall fater than the XL. However, the XL can do things the GT cannot. And has much better IQ. So, would you rather have faster speed, or better IQ?

Too expensive? Its the same MSRP as the GT. It has also dropped $40 on newegg, in less than a week. Given time, it may be the same price as the GT.

And thats just the GT vs. the XL. The GTX vs. the XT has a different tune. From the previews, the XT is faster, while having better IQ still. Sure its going to be more from the street price stand point. It also has 512mb of ram, and the price will likely drop. Perhaps when NV releases a 512mb GTX (or 512mb next card) we can compare prices more accuratly. Then the 512mb ATi card will be out longer, and likely have a lower price.

As you can see, its not as "clear" to you, as it is to everyone.
 
fallguy said:
Sorry, but you're wrong. The XL is available at retail outlets. Frys has many of them, and people have bought them.
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No, I am NOT wrong fallguy. The XT will not be available until 11 November. I know that XL cards are out, and in retail. I was pointing out to the other poster that the XT's are, in fact, NOT available.

And this was the post I was referring to:





What happened to the November release dates that Kyle gave? If its 2 days after a launch is it still a paper launch?
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Introducing the X1800 family was not a "paper launch", technically. Introducing the X1800XT was, and is a paper launch. And before anyone starts throwing around the "F"boy word (doubtful with the current state of affairs), check the sig.
 
Dumb question, maybe, but here goes....

Will this affect 7800 prices much, or at all? What has happened historically?

I'm using a BFG 6800GT and would like to upgrade to a 7800GTX. Right now the BFG is $509 on the egg. When the XT is released do you think prices on the 7800GTX will fall dramatically? No rush, I want to upgrade around the time Oblivion is released.
 
I think the 7800GT is pretty much at the lowest range we will see it at untill a new generation of cards comes along. Nvidia could try to pull a fast one on ATi but they dont even need to.
 
GTX, not GT. $509 the lowest? I don't think so.. Heck the 6800GT was $400 for me and it's $312 now (on the egg, which was $20 higher than where I bought mine at the time.) The bubble's going to burst on the 7800GTX; I'm just wondering when.

I'd include the 1800XT except I have an nForce4 board and don't want to give it up.
 
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