Guess i'll never own current gen video card

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BoogerBomb

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
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Nvidia and ATI have gotten way out of hand when it comes to pricing their video cards. Rumors are Nvidias new one will be $550. $550 DOLLARS!!!! No video card will ever be worth that much money for the same amout of materials that goes into making the card as what has gone into their other cards.

At the rate these companies are going they will just do whatever it takes to price us out of owning current generation video cards unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

I bet the generation after this debut at $1000.
 
OOPS didnt see that the locked Nvidia thread already had this discussion.
 
Relax. If you have an issue with the price, there's always the $200 mid-range cards. Seriously, let the rich people spend all their money. ;)
 
BoogerBomb said:
Nvidia and ATI have gotten way out of hand when it comes to pricing their video cards. Rumors are Nvidias new one will be $550. $550 DOLLARS!!!! No video card will ever be worth that much money for the same amout of materials that goes into making the card as what has gone into their other cards.

At the rate these companies are going they will just do whatever it takes to price us out of owning current generation video cards unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

I bet the generation after this debut at $1000.
Click to expand...

You aren't just paying for the materials. You are paying for the millions of dollars of R&D that goes into these cards. As they get more complicated the cost of that is going to go up.
 
@peltman78
Curiously, how much do you estimate it costs to make one of the latest models?
 
peltman78 said:
You aren't just paying for the materials. You are paying for the millions of dollars of R&D that goes into these cards. As they get more complicated the cost of that is going to go up.
Click to expand...

But you'd think that as the manufacturing processes matured and yields got better, the cost would kind of balance out, which it isn't doing at all -- just going up.
 
Well i for one believe in free market forces, the prices are set at what people will pay / availability.
 
I seem to remember nvidia’s and ati’s top end cards costing that much if not more for pretty much all of 2004. Their top end cards were introduced almost a year ago and are just now becoming somewhat affordable. I also remember my Geforce 2 Ultra costing a lot back in the day.
 
yea not like you HAVE TO get a top of the line card >.> hell the cards even 1 and 2 steps down are damn fast and the mid range cards now are faster then last gens highend prices will come down and in the mean time get a nice midreage card like a 6600GT 6800 or X800XL what ever floats your boat
 
peltman78 said:
You aren't just paying for the materials. You are paying for the millions of dollars of R&D that goes into these cards. As they get more complicated the cost of that is going to go up.
Click to expand...

How much money do you think ATI spent on R&D from the R9700-X850/R520? Not as much as you think, considering its been the same base core for what? 3-4 years?

Also, Microsoft paid heavy for the R&D on the R500. Yes, some was ATI, but MS covered alot of that money that ATI spent on R&D.

So! With that, Why do cards cost as much? Corporate Greed. Shareholders Period. High end should never have gone over $299 like the Radeon 8500 when it debut. Maybe with 300 million transistors $399 for the very top of the line, say XT-PE.

I really think ATI/Nvidia are gonna keep priceing themselves out of the high end market with the economy going to shit. Hell, for $399 I can get an XBOX 360 with tech the puter isn't going to have till next year and all the other bells and whistles. Really, we are wasting our money buying the R520 this year.
 
for *** **** sakes. Stop complaining about video card prices. If it werent for high video card prices, how would my stocks go up? :D
 
SnowBeast said:
How much money do you think ATI spent on R&D from the R9700-X850/R520? Not as much as you think, considering its been the same base core for what? 3-4 years?
Click to expand...

He's got a very good point. Atleast we're clearly seeing nVidia coming up with different cores. ATI's been using the same one from the company they bought out years ago. I'd have expected them to have finished paying off the R&D already. Which leaves just the modification and manufacturing cost.
 
Sly said:
He's got a very good point. Atleast we're clearly seeing nVidia coming up with different cores. ATI's been using the same one from the company they bought out years ago. I'd have expected them to have finished paying off the R&D already. Which leaves just the modification and manufacturing cost.
Click to expand...

Expected them to have finished paying off the R&D? How can you do that when R&D is always evolving?

Also I don't see anyone complaining about new cars, PCs, TVs and other rediculously priced items costing more and more.
 
NowhereMan said:
Expected them to have finished paying off the R&D? How can you do that when R&D is always evolving?

Also I don't see anyone complaining about new cars, PCs, TVs and other rediculously priced items costing more and more.
Click to expand...

Yup, it's always evolving, but this isn't exactly real R&D for a new core. Just modification of an existing one. Added pipes, raise the clockspeed, change to a different nanometer. But it's all based on the same design. We may expect to pay some sort of additional cost for the modification even though it's not real R&D. But the price should atleast be far more competitive considering how long it's been since it was developed.

You don't want cheaper cards? They can probably lower the cost of an X800 card quite a bit without hurting profits too much.
 
Why do you _need_ a current generation video card? I haven't run into anything my Radeon 9800 Pro won't play comfortably at a decent resolution (1280x960, usually). And I'm using an Athlon XP 2500!

Looking at benchmarks, and comparisons, I see no compelling reason to upgrade my video card yet. In fact I'll probably wait until the next set of cards to come out.
 
This is like someone going car shopping, and complaining that lamborghinis's are too expensive. There's *always* going to be something that's top of the line, and ridicously expensive.

Computers have always been like that; you pay a lot more to get the latest and greatest, then it goes down in price as it becomes obsolete.

Also, keep in mind that fast memory is expensive.
 
I think there are a lot of reasons top-end cards stay expensive. Amortization of R&D, manufacturing, and marketing. Corporate greed doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. The Ultra's and the XT's are not where ATI and Nvidia make their money. The 5200, X300 and such are where they really make money.

I think a lot of this pricing is connected with how a product line is marketed. Each company has to have the baddest, fastest, and most expensive video cards to help them sell there lower end models. If ATI suddenly said that all their top end video card where going to sell for $300 wouldn't you be suspicious? Is it defective or underpowered? Why the sudden price drop?

Individual consumers or intelligent and research their products. The "consumer base" (marketing) doesn't. They have a "you get what you pay for" mentality. You wonder why this $300 ATI card is so much cheaper than a $500 Nvidia.

We are stuck in a pricing structure than ATI and Nvidia are unwilling to break.

 
NKDietrich said:
Why do you _need_ a current generation video card? I haven't run into anything my Radeon 9800 Pro won't play comfortably at a decent resolution (1280x960, usually). And I'm using an Athlon XP 2500!

Looking at benchmarks, and comparisons, I see no compelling reason to upgrade my video card yet. In fact I'll probably wait until the next set of cards to come out.
Click to expand...
You obviously haven't tried running Far Cry at 1600x1200 (or higher!) 4xAA 16xAF with HDR... or Doom 3 at the highest settings... ;)
 
it costs companies a lot of money to make the cards, chips are expensive to make. sell your monitor, and get a R500 or a G70, and a 2005FP. you don't need that big of a monitor.
 
nVidia 5750's cost almost a hundred dollars. Sold MSRP at 199.
http://theinquirer.net/?article=22451

ATI x600 PRO cost about a hundred dollars. It doesn't say the MSRP though, anybody know?
http://theinquirer.net/?article=22478

The difference between manufacturing cost and MSRP is used to pay for the various other components (labor, cables, boxes, shipping, etc.) but a large part of that goes into recouping the cost for actual development of that card (R&D). If the development of that chip is paid for, the production cost might stay the same but they can atleast lower the MSRP once they start regaining what they spent designing it (Cards are much cheaper a year after initial release right?). If, for a new product they market, they use the same technology or merely add some enhancements, the R&D cost to add for the MSRP for the new card should be minimal right?
 
Carnecerro said:
I think there are a lot of reasons top-end cards stay expensive. Amortization of R&D, manufacturing, and marketing. Corporate greed doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. The Ultra's and the XT's are not where ATI and Nvidia make their money. The 5200, X300 and such are where they really make money.

I think a lot of this pricing is connected with how a product line is marketed. Each company has to have the baddest, fastest, and most expensive video cards to help them sell there lower end models. If ATI suddenly said that all their top end video card where going to sell for $300 wouldn't you be suspicious? Is it defective or underpowered? Why the sudden price drop?

Individual consumers or intelligent and research their products. The "consumer base" (marketing) doesn't. They have a "you get what you pay for" mentality. You wonder why this $300 ATI card is so much cheaper than a $500 Nvidia.

We are stuck in a pricing structure than ATI and Nvidia are unwilling to break.

http://www.hardfolding.com/?go=38&id=1367
Click to expand...
That's correct and think of the CPU pricing too... some of the high end is well over 1000$ and it's just a chip. The high price is justified by the performance lead, the initial low yields and R&D price.

I remember NVidia saying that the NV4x core cost them a few hundreds of millions in R&D but i may be mistaken.
 
Sly said:
nVidia 5750's cost almost a hundred dollars. Sold MSRP at 199.
http://theinquirer.net/?article=22451

ATI x600 PRO cost about a hundred dollars. It doesn't say the MSRP though, anybody know?
http://theinquirer.net/?article=22478

The difference between manufacturing cost and MSRP is used to pay for the various other components (labor, cables, boxes, shipping, etc.) but a large part of that goes into recouping the cost for actual development of that card (R&D). If the development of that chip is paid for, the production cost might stay the same but they can atleast lower the MSRP once they start regaining what they spent designing it (Cards are much cheaper a year after initial release right?). If, for a new product they market, they use the same technology or merely add some enhancements, the R&D cost to add for the MSRP for the new card should be minimal right?
Click to expand...

There are other costs as well. Marketing and overhead(of which labor is included) are large parts. Also, how many cards do you think ATI and Nvidia sell for MSRP? Do you think Dell, HP, or Gateway are paying MSRP for their card orders? When was the last time you paid MSRP on a lower to mid level card? Only the high end gets over MSRP typically. R&D is also continually accumulating. Even a minor upgrade or change on memory and core can cost millions to develope and test. Driver upgrades and utility development also add costs to cards.

 
Carnecerro said:
There are other costs as well. Marketing and overhead(of which labor is included) are large parts. Also, how many cards do you think ATI and Nvidia sell for MSRP? Do you think Dell, HP, or Gateway are paying MSRP for their card orders? When was the last time you paid MSRP on a lower to mid level card? Only the high end gets over MSRP typically. R&D is also continually accumulating. Even a minor upgrade or change on memory and core can cost millions to develope and test. Driver upgrades and utility development also add costs to cards.

Click to expand...

Are you saying the cost to create the R4xx is the same as the R3xx? :confused:
 
1c3d0g said:
Yes, I concur, since I also read that somewhere... I believe it was in the neighbourhood of $400 Million for the GeForce 6 series alone...quite a lot of money!

Update:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=116466&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=676524&highlight=

$2.01 Billion : 100 x ~17(I estimated R&D in percentage) = $341,700,000 in about a year. I'm certainly not a math/finance expert, but $400 Million seems on target.
Click to expand...
Then i'm right, i remember hearing those numbers. That's not surprising knowing that Intel & Microsoft spend billions on R&D.
 
Sly said:
Are you saying the cost to create the R4xx is the same as the R3xx? :confused:
Click to expand...

Considering the R4XXX is virtually a R3XX on steroids, the price difference can't be much more than marginally more considering a good deal of the parts put into them are shared production... right?
 
Steel Chicken said:
anything that contains hundreds of millions of components wont be cheap
Click to expand...

I think this answer sums it up the best. On top of the complexity of the device, companies still want to make a profit. They're not a charity, so if you blame them for making money, then you are in the wrong market system.
 
ScHpAnKy said:
Considering the R4XXX is virtually a R3XX on steroids, the price difference can't be much more than marginally more considering a good deal of the parts put into them are shared production... right?
Click to expand...

When i made that post. What was running through my head at the time was "Modifying an R3xx core to make an R4xx costs the same R&D as creating the R3xx from scratch?! Unbelievable! :eek:"

I was kinda hoping that since they didn't spend as much for R&D on their latest card, that it would reflect on their pricing :( Yeah, wishful thinking i know.
 
Carnecerro said:
I think there are a lot of reasons top-end cards stay expensive. Amortization of R&D, manufacturing, and marketing. Corporate greed doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. The Ultra's and the XT's are not where ATI and Nvidia make their money. The 5200, X300 and such are where they really make money.

I think a lot of this pricing is connected with how a product line is marketed. Each company has to have the baddest, fastest, and most expensive video cards to help them sell there lower end models. If ATI suddenly said that all their top end video card where going to sell for $300 wouldn't you be suspicious? Is it defective or underpowered? Why the sudden price drop?

Individual consumers or intelligent and research their products. The "consumer base" (marketing) doesn't. They have a "you get what you pay for" mentality. You wonder why this $300 ATI card is so much cheaper than a $500 Nvidia.

We are stuck in a pricing structure than ATI and Nvidia are unwilling to break.

Click to expand...

QFT.

Complaining about the price of top of the line cards makes no sense. Why don't you go onto some car forum and complain about the cost Ferrari Enzo? Afterall, there's no way it costs Ferrari a million dollars to produce one of them.

If Ferrari, Mercedes and Lexus keep up this unreasonable pricing then I'll never be able to own the latest generation Automobile!
 
Hvatum said:
QFT.

Complaining about the price of top of the line cards makes no sense. Why don't you go onto some car forum and complain about the cost Ferrari Enzo? Afterall, there's no way it costs Ferrari a million dollars to produce one of them.

If Ferrari, Mercedes and Lexus keep up this unreasonable pricing then I'll never be able to own the latest generation Automobile!
Click to expand...

"Speed costs; How fast do you want to go?"
i think the quote gos some thing like that :cool:
 
BoogerBomb said:
Nvidia and ATI have gotten way out of hand when it comes to pricing their video cards. Rumors are Nvidias new one will be $550. $550 DOLLARS!!!! No video card will ever be worth that much money for the same amout of materials that goes into making the card as what has gone into their other cards.

At the rate these companies are going they will just do whatever it takes to price us out of owning current generation video cards unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company.

I bet the generation after this debut at $1000.
Click to expand...

512MB 6800 Ultra BFG = $899 !!!!!!!!!!!!

if the new one really cost $550, i will get it for sure :rolleyes:
 
Elios said:
"Speed costs; How fast do you want to go?"
i think the quote gos some thing like that :cool:
Click to expand...

fast enough that gives smooth performance under 1600*1200, max AA and AF, no lag no matter where I am at the game.

:)
 
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