GTX 980 May Lose The Performance Crown To AMD’s R9 380X in February 2015

tybert7

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4 months is nothing if the new cards are decidedly better.

because that means that they can balloon up their prices against the 980/970

I think the bigger issue is missing the holiday season. I think it would be better for amd if they could get their time table to release newer cards around holidays.
 

tajoh111

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AMD is the King of disinformation to no information and for all we know the cards may be here next week and Nvidia has no idea whats coming so the 980Ti could just be a waste of PCB board ..

but all you have to do is look back at the jump in performance from 4870 >5870>6970>7970>290x>390x and the 980ti would need to be 50% faster then the 290x just to have a chance at the 390x if AMD thinks the 380x can handle the 980GTX.
AMD has been getting less and less impressive if that timeline shows anything.

4870 biggest jump, 5870 smaller jump and 6970 even smaller jump. When AMD got a new node, we got the biggest increase from them, thus the 7970 has the biggest jump, 290x was smaller and the jump from 290x to 390x could be even smaller as the GCN architecture is running out of steam. Hence the need for a water cooling unit.

If AMD doesn't get to a die shrink, which is impossible for a high end card released this february. The gains are not going to be that impressive. Tonga came out at the same time as the gtx 980 and is based on a newer GCN architecture than the 290x.

For the chip size, r9 285 is already the size of a 380x(its a bigger chip than the 7970) and that is what I feel the full configuration is going to be called.

I predict the 390x to be about 25-30 percent faster than a 290x or about 15% faster than a gtx 980. But while doing so, consuming 350-400 watts of power, hence the water cooling solution.
 

The Mac

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I predict it will be Bermuda core on 20nm and HBM with 30% speed increase over 980 and approx same TDP by June

The leaked water cooler being for either an upcoming Big Tonga chip, or an upcoming x2 design.
 

fanboy

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So AMD takes a 2 to 3 year old chip and cuts the memory down to budget card level and adds GCN 1.2 and makes the card faster without a die shrink which is aimed at the 760GTX but you think that's what the 390x will look like over the 290x.

I think the 380x will be Hawaii with GCN 1.2 and HBM plus a bump in SP/ROP's and should yield 30% over the 290x without a die shrink.. 390x is a whole new chip with unknown SP count and is said to be a monster .
 

DejaWiz

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^ i hope so, i cannot stand being second to a nvidian

If you always buy the newest-gen card from either, there is always a point in time where your GPU is second, due to the constant refreshes and pissing contests between NVidia and AMD.

It's a lot like the processor segment. If you have a recent AMD CPU, you should know quite well how being second feels. I remember all to well how awesome my Venice A64 3000+ was, then my Windsor X2 3800+ and 6400+, and now my IB. I just get the best bang for the buck processor at the time of my upgrades.
 

tajoh111

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So AMD takes a 2 to 3 year old chip and cuts the memory down to budget card level and adds GCN 1.2 and makes the card faster without a die shrink which is aimed at the 760GTX but you think that's what the 390x will look like over the 290x.

I think the 380x will be Hawaii with GCN 1.2 and HBM plus a bump in SP/ROP's and should yield 30% over the 290x without a die shrink.. 390x is a whole new chip with unknown SP count and is said to be a monster .
The current die size of Tonga is 360mm2 about. A tad over the size of Tahiti.

It has basically the same configuration as Tahiti but about 5-10% higher performance.
2048 shaders, 384 bit but and an unknown amount of ROPs. Plus the new color compression technology, a beefed up geometry engine and full HSA built in, plus all the extra features which bonaire and Hawaii bought.

The problem is to get 30% more performance compared to hawaii, you need to make a GPU that is 100% faster than an r9 285. Considering the chip is already 360mm2, you can't double everything.

e.g right now
lets say the baseline performance of the r9 285 is 100%
Hawaii is 50% faster(look at techpowerup and subtract a few points from the r9 285 since its an OC edition).

So hawaii represents 150% of the speed of r9 285.

We need a card 200% faster than r9 285 to be 30% faster than an r9 285.

or 200%/150% = 1.3333.

Making a card with double the performance of the r9 285 is going to take a massive die when you consider the r9 285 is already 360mm2. Sure its not fully enabled but only 14% of the shaders are not enabled and a third of the memory bus.

So what kind of specs will it take to make a card twice as fast as an r9 285?

Probably something along the lines of 3300-3500 shaders at 1ghz clocks. 512bit bus, 96ROPs. This is going to be a over a 500mm2 card considering how much components are being added. And at this point, considering the performance per watt of Tonga isn't better than hawaii, we got a card that consume 30% or more power than hawaii.

Hence why we need the water cooler.

At this point, considering the 500mm2 plus die, the water cooler, you should see why the 30% more performance over hawaii isn't a 380x anymore. Such a card is too expensive to make for that name and needs as high a model number as possible so it can charge as much as possible.

I don't think AMD needs HBM yet. Considering the AMD has a 512bit bus, + the color compression technology and I suspect they can clock their memory at 1500/6ghz effective, they have more than enough bandwidth this generation.
 

timmay

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Bullshit, its allways 4-6 months between competitive releases. Sometimes more
Bullshit yourself.

AMD was already 6 months behind Titan. That was a year ago! Now nVidia has upped the ante with Maxwell, increasing performance reasonably while lowering power like a boss. But all AMD can do is announce a card for four months from now, a card that will probably just match Maxwell in performance while doubling its power consumption.
And nVidia will just bump the specs for 980 Ti to take care of it.

That is NOT normal.
There was a time when AMD was fighting nVidia for the performance crown eye-to-eye. But for the past 4 years they've been playing catch-up at best.
And who's that hurting the most (apart from AMD shareholders): customers!

I still remember the day the 9700 Pro hit like a boss. Biggest upset ever, perhaps. That's what I want from them!
 

The Mac

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They never competed with the titan, still haven't so your example is irreverent.

Its a niche product.
 

spaceman

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Nvidia will have a new gpu out this year. The 980 is the midrange. The new gpu will include a dual gpu beast card.
 

The Mac

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no, he was trying to compare 290x to titan.

its not the same segment.
 

timmay

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no, he was trying to compare 290x to titan.

its not the same segment.
They didn't compete with Titan because they couldn't. nVidia only priced the Titan like this because they lack competition. Reminds me uncomfortably of their years of monopoly between 3dfx's death and ATI's rise, when they released the spec bumpy GeForce 2 Ultra and shattered price records in the process.

Bulldozer isn't competing with Haswell-E either. But not because AMD intends it for a different audience.
 

DejaWiz

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I will kick your ass!!!!! Four months down the road!
I know, right? :p

"Thanks for the warning, AMD. In case you ignored my memo, my prize fighters are back in the gym and their Testosterone Injected selves will emerge. See you in February!"

Got to love Vaporware topics...
 
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I know, right? :p

"Thanks for the warning, AMD. In case you ignored my memo, my prize fighters are back in the gym and their Testosterone Injected selves will emerge. See you in February!"

Got to love Vaporware topics...
bro, amd is working on a secret weapon, its gonna make the 980 look like a geforce 2
 

Creepin_D

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What segment would that be? Graphics cards?

They'll shoot you?
Don't be a dick dude, you know full well what Mac is saying. I don't care who makes the card, you don't compare $1000 card to a $500 card, or whatever the price difference was on release.
 

polonyc2

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Breaking News: R9 380X May Lose The Performance Crown To Nvidia's Pascal series in 2016

:D
 

wonderfield

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Don't be a dick dude, you know full well what Mac is saying. I don't care who makes the card, you don't compare $1000 card to a $500 card, or whatever the price difference was on release.
You're missing the point entirely. There's nothing to properly compare the Titan to: AMD did not have the capacity to release a competing product. The 290X is the limit of their current technology. That is the point.

Naturally, they could double up on the number of GPUs -- which they did -- but there was no product for which they could compete directly with the Titan.
 

The Mac

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which is exactly my point, there is no competing product in that market segment.

It is a niche product for people who game and want GPGPU. They are called Halo products in the business world.

AMD has decided they dont wish to compete in that segment. They have a separate product for each.

comparing two entirely different product line segments is rediculous
 

Trimlock

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bro, amd is working on a secret weapon, its gonna make the 980 look like a geforce 2
I'm ok with that, I still have a working GeForce 2. The fan stopped working on it the last time I tried to use it and it barely got warm!
 
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"Cannot". Not "don't wish to".
what what, where's nvidia's dual gpu card? Oh right, Zee Titanic failure that was postponed because its slower than the 295x2?

lol @ nvidian 145 watt TDP (290x top, GTX 970 bottom):


#maxfail
 
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orangekiwii

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what what, where's nvidia's dual gpu card? Oh right, Zee Titanic failure that was postponed because its slower than the 295x2?

lol @ nvidian 145 watt TDP (290x top, GTX 970 bottom):


#maxfail
Congratulations. I can't believe people are actually taking anything you say seriously. Simply look at this guys sig. Beyond the fact that his posts are clearly satire his 'proof' is just wrong. Look at the image he posted above. He's comparing total system power to single gpu power.

Anyone who falls for this guy is an absolute ass clown. I don't really know what you get out of making people look like fools but you've definitely accomplished it.
 

evilsofa

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The only mystery is if he's an Nvidia fanboy doing satire to make AMD fanboys look bad, or an AMD fanboy doing satire of an Nvidia fanboy doing satire of AMD fanboys to make Nvidia fanboys look bad.

/there are scorecards on the counter if you can't keep up with my logic
 
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brah, I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure 300 - 76 > 145
300-76 = 224W

That includes the difference of GTX 970 going from idle to full load.

That also includes the difference between the 4960X CPU idling from 960MHz to full load at 4.2GHz.

It also includes the difference in power needed for all the fans in the PC going faster due to higher heat output.
 

Relayer

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You're missing the point entirely. There's nothing to properly compare the Titan to: AMD did not have the capacity to release a competing product. The 290X is the limit of their current technology. That is the point.

Naturally, they could double up on the number of GPUs -- which they did -- but there was no product for which they could compete directly with the Titan.
What a crock. Titan was a pure rip off and people fell for it. GPGPU card that has no support nor proper drivers. Yeah, great idea (not). Titan-Z was the same just epic in proportion. It doesn't appear that too many people fell for that one though. Just shows that you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
 

Richthofen

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Is the holiday season really a factor with video cards? PCs in general maybe, and for mid range gaming builds, maybe, but I don't know if $600 video cards are really concerned with the holiday craze. I'd even think feb would be better. People spend money on kids/family in december and have enough leftover cash come feb to buy their own goodies (or kids that play saved their holiday cash?). Not arguing as I have NO evidence, I'm just throwing the thought out there.
Don't forget the aggressive pricing on the GTX970 and the upcomming GTX960. Q4 is the most important quater in the GPU space followed by Q3 similar to other areas in the industry.
 

SnowBeast

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All I know is its almost 6 am, I've been up all night and WHERE THE FUCK IS THE LEFT OVER PIZZA YOU HOMO'S?

:p

OMG I could so go for a pizza right now......
 
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