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GTX 460 = ATI ?

E

erf

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
1,848
From what I can tell according to benchmarks the 460 is comparable to the 5850 when it comes to performance numbers. If this is the case how in the hell is the 5850 priced so much higher???
 
The 5850 cards are priced at the point that they will sell...and they are selling.
if sales start to fall off, a price reduction may follow, but why lower the price if people are still buying it?

The 460 was just recently released, so I'm sure its not hurting their sales at this point
 
erf said:
From what I can tell according to benchmarks the 460 is comparable to the 5850 when it comes to performance numbers. If this is the case how in the hell is the 5850 priced so much higher???
Click to expand...

The 5850 is the better than the 460. So it makes sense that it is priced higher. If you mean the price premium over the 460 is too high, then you have a point.
 
The highly factory overclocked GTX 460 is pretty comparable, but at reference speeds, the HD 5850 is faster is most games, sometimes pretty significantly faster.
 
from what i have read the 5850 is about 10% faster than the 460 with no overclock on either card. the 460 is almost identical in performance to the 5830 according the the hardocp review, however it uses less power and is marginally superior (1-2fps) in most games tested.

the 460 was not billed as a 5850 competitor, i believe the 470 is meant to fill that role. however the amount of extra performance that you get for the $60-100 extra dollars on the 5850 makes the 460 much more desirable, imo.
 
herfalerf said:
...the amount of extra performance that you get for the $60-100 extra dollars on the 5850 makes the 460 much more desirable, imo.
Click to expand...
Since when is a 460 $100 cheaper than a 5850? If you are comparing the cheapest 768 memory 460 to the most expensive 1GB 5850 then you are a fool.
A GTX 460 1GB is only $30 cheaper than a HD 5850 1GB and the 5850 can be overclocked easily to 5870 clocks which crushes both the overclocked 768MB and 1GB GTX460 performance. There is simply no comparison. The best value has always been the 5850.
 
460 is a great card, and will drive the price down on the 5850. I've already seen an xfx without a MIR for $250. Let it begin..
 
the gtx 460 is a nice card for its price point.. but even with its so called amazing overclock it comes right back to the whole ATI HD4890.. where you could sit there and say "hey look my HD4890 does 1Ghz on the GPU, what does your GTX 285 do?" and yet that 1Ghz HD4890 is still slower then the GTX 285.. so just because it overclocks great doesnt mean its all that great of a card.. as long as it stays in the 200 or less price range then its a good buy.. but i dont expect the card to stay that low unless nvidia floods the market and retailers with the cards and they have no choice but to sell them at MSRP or lower to off load the stock..

when ATI and Nvidia's refresh comes near the end of the year i think the competition will get much more interesting..
 
Omegas said:
460 is a great card, and will drive the price down on the 5850. I've already seen an xfx without a MIR for $250. Let it begin..
Click to expand...

Yeah, but XFX is using a shitty non-reference PCB and HSF design that is far cheaper in cost and inferior in function to the more expensive reference cards.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
when ATI and Nvidia's refresh comes near the end of the year i think the competition will get much more interesting..
Click to expand...

Nvidia has no refresh for Fermi coming out for this year. They haven't even finished releasing their first generation fermi line up and you are magically pulling refreshes out of their ass.
 
RamonGTP said:
Yeah, but XFX is using a shitty non-reference PCB and HSF design that is far cheaper in cost and inferior in function to the more expensive reference cards.
Click to expand...

The non-reference PCB and HSF designs are common among AIBs, not just an XFX thing. I don't agree that it is neccessarily "shitty" but if it were me, I would agree that purchasing a reference design is a good idea.
 
Spare-Flair said:
The non-reference PCB and HSF designs are common among AIBs, not just an XFX thing. I don't agree that it is neccessarily "shitty" but if it were me, I would agree that purchasing a reference design is a good idea.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying XFX is the only one, i'm saying that the cheap one he found for $250 is such a design.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
no they dont.. sure we want them to drop it to 230-250 but they dont need to..
Click to expand...

They do need too, You do realize they were suppose to be $259 in the first place?.... Most of the 460 1gigs arent stock and come overclocked for around $240 which keeps it on the brink of the 5850 in benchmarks.

And with the way the 460 Scale with Multi-GPU configuration, The 460 is a no brainer.

Look at these benches....It so damn close to the 5850, and its around 30-50 bucks cheaper.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/kfa2-geforce-gtx-460-1024mb-gc-soc-review/

It is time to lower them
 
DASHlT said:
They do need too, You do realize they were suppose to be $259 in the first place?.... Most of the 460 1gigs arent stock and come overclocked for around $240 which keeps it on the brink of the 5850 in benchmarks.

And with the way the 460 Scale with Multi-GPU configuration, The 460 is a no brainer.

Look at these benches....It so damn close to the 5850, and its around 30-50 bucks cheaper.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/kfa2-geforce-gtx-460-1024mb-gc-soc-review/

It is time to lower them
Click to expand...

Great job comparing an overclocked GTX460 to a stock 5850.
 
I will probably end up going with a 5850. With tax and shipping i have to pay $250 for a 1GB GTX 460 from newegg or i can pay 255 shipped with BCB for a 5850 from tigerdirect.

On thread topic, the GTX 460 has slotted in a middle ground between the ATI cards. You will probably see more overclockers buy the 460 and people that tend to leave their system stock go with a 5850.
 
DASHlT said:
They do need too, You do realize they were suppose to be $259 in the first place?.... Most of the 460 1gigs arent stock and come overclocked for around $240 which keeps it on the brink of the 5850 in benchmarks.

And with the way the 460 Scale with Multi-GPU configuration, The 460 is a no brainer.

Look at these benches....It so damn close to the 5850, and its around 30-50 bucks cheaper.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/kfa2-geforce-gtx-460-1024mb-gc-soc-review/

It is time to lower them
Click to expand...


so damn close yet so far away when you overclock a 5850.. darn guess that 30-50 dollars you saved didnt go so far now did it.. i wont argue that sli scales much better then crossfire.. but thats still another 200+ dollars your spending to get better performance then a single 5850.. at that point ya might as well just get a 5870.. and yeah you dont need a second card to run multi-display either..
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
so damn close yet so far away when you overclock a 5850.. darn guess that 30-50 dollars you saved didnt go so far now did it.. i wont argue that sli scales much better then crossfire.. but thats still another 200+ dollars your spending to get better performance then a single 5850.. at that point ya might as well just get a 5870.. and yeah you dont need a second card to run multi-display either..
Click to expand...

2 gtx 460 beats the 5870 and gtx 480 for about the same or lower price.
 
vietkangta said:
2 gtx 460 beats the 5870 and gtx 480 for about the same or lower price.
Click to expand...

Getting 2 cards to beat the performance of a single higher up card is rarely if ever a good idea or investment. Not all games work well with SLI or Crossfire, so when you have to use a single card there goes your performance increase. Also, you could argue two cards is harder on the PSU, which can be bad if you have a shitty one. :eek:
 
Azymn said:
The 5850 may be faster overall, but it's not like you can't OC the 460 just as well to close the gap again. As for bang/buck...I'm inclined to believe HardOCP's numbers.
Click to expand...

Sigh. You do know that overclocking goes both ways, eh?

It's getting pretty annoying reading about all these OC'd 460 comparisons to a stock 5850.
 
rUmX said:
Sigh. You do know that overclocking goes both ways, eh?

It's getting pretty annoying reading about all these OC'd 460 comparisons to a stock 5850.
Click to expand...

The thing is Nvidia could of put out stock 460 GTX's at 750mhz on stock volts and sold it as it is, They left em so low with overclockers in mind.

"NVIDIA repeatedly stressed to us that the GTX 460 was made with overclockers in mind, so they are designing these video cards to have significant overclocking headroom. Though the reference clock rate is 675MHz, they expect users to be able to overclock upwards of 800MHz."

I mean 675 is being very generous on clock speeds if you ask me.

Think about it, you are basically going to get 800mhz overclock period...This shows how much headroom they left open.

But of course you can get a 5850 overclocked too, but you are going to pay even more money for an overclocked edition...

And no im not a fanboi of either company, This is just how I see it.
 
Getting 2 cards to beat the performance of a single higher up card is rarely if ever a good idea or investment. Not all games work well with SLI or Crossfire, so when you have to use a single card there goes your performance increase. Also, you could argue two cards is harder on the PSU, which can be bad if you have a shitty one.
Click to expand...

It is if you're trying to match the 480. :p
 
rUmX said:
Sigh. You do know that overclocking goes both ways, eh?

It's getting pretty annoying reading about all these OC'd 460 comparisons to a stock 5850.
Click to expand...

I'd definitely be interested in seeing some overclocked 5850 vs overclocked 460 benchmarks. The 460 seems to be a great overclocker, with cards being released at 800and 810MHz out of the factory (Gainward GLH and Galaxy super OC). That's 20% straight out of the factory.

To me it says a bit when manufacturers are happy to release models at a 20% overclock... but of course I'd like to see benchmarks before I make any judgements on it ;)
 
Tudz said:
I'd definitely be interested in seeing some overclocked 5850 vs overclocked 460 benchmarks. The 460 seems to be a great overclocker, with cards being released at 800and 810MHz out of the factory (Gainward GLH and Galaxy super OC). That's 20% straight out of the factory.

To me it says a bit when manufacturers are happy to release models at a 20% overclock... but of course I'd like to see benchmarks before I make any judgements on it ;)
Click to expand...

http://www.overclock.net/ati/622089-sapphire-radeon-hd-5850-review-56k.html#post7822321

These are from dec so the numbers are not comparable to other reviews. But they do show gains you can expect to gain with an over clock. The guy only has a core 2 duo. So in some situations he is going to be cpu limited. However at 850 mhz your looking at anywhere from 10-16% improvement over the default clocks. At 1ghz your looking at a 20-30% performance gain over default clocks.

So even best case senario with the gtx 460 overclocked you hit 5850 default speeds. Your right back to the same performance defict once the 5850 is over clocked.

So in my opinon if your going to get a card at $200 for the 1gig gtx 460 its a steal. But for some of the 5850s thta you can find at $280 its also a steal. You get better performance but you also get a chance to use eyefinity. Like with me I had a 24 /22 inch screens. I bought another 24inch and my 5850 that i just got allows me to dabble with eyeinfinty. I will have a better set up during the holidays when i get another 24 inch screen and next year i will be ready for new ati chips.

Call of Duty: World at War
1680 x 1050, 4xAA, 16xAF, DX9, Maximum Detail, Recorded demo
5850 = 127 fps average
5850 850mhz = 145 fps average (14% gain over stock)
5850 1Ghz = 156 fps average (22% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 137 fps average

1920 x 1080, 4xAA, 16xAF, DX9, Maximum Detail, Recorded demo
5850 = 117 fps average
5850 850mhz = 132 fps average (12% gain over stock)
5850 1Ghz = 148 fps average (26% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 128 fps average

Call of Juarez:
1680 x 1050, 4xAA, DX10, Highest Quality Settings
5850 = 63 fps average
5850 850mhz = 73 fps average (15% gain over stock)
5850 1Ghz = 79 fps average (25% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 62 fps average


Crysis:
1600 x 1200, DX10, 64 bit, Very High, 0xAA
5850 = 34 fps average
5850 850mhz = 37 fps average (8% gain over stock)
5850 1Ghz = 44 fps average (29% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 35 fps average

Crysis:
1900 x 1200, DX10, 64 bit, Very High, 0xAA
5850 = 30 fps average
5850 850mhz = 34 fps average (13% gain over stock)
5850 1Ghz = 37 fps average (23% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 30 fps average

Crysis:
1920 x 1080, DX10, 64 bit, Very High, 4xAA
5850 = 27 fps average
5850 850mhz = 31 fps average (14% gain over stock)
5850 1Ghz = 34 fps average (25% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 27 fps average


Devil May Cry 4:
1600 x 1200, DX10, 8xAA, 16xAF, Highest Quality Settings
5850 = 141 fps average
5850 1Ghz = 176 fps average (24% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 157 fps average

Dirt 2:
1920 x 1080, DX11, 8xAA, Ultra Quality Settings
5850 = 47 fps average
5850 1Ghz = 58 fps average (23% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = N/A

Resident Evil 5:
1680 x 1050, DX10, 16xAF, 8xAA, Highest Quality Settings, Motion Blur Enabled
5850 = 83 fps average
5850 1Ghz = 100 fps average (20% gain over stock)
4850 X2 = 87 fps average
Click to expand...
 
5850 is faster than 460 by 10-25% depending on the game.

460 overclocks great but you can't deny 5850 also overclocks great and can reach beyond 5870 level of performance. Both great cards.

460 1gig model is priced @ $229 ~ 260.

5850 is priced $289 ~ 330 and some models even cheaper with rebate etc...

So it looks like it's priced accordingly.
 
rUmX said:
Sigh. You do know that overclocking goes both ways, eh?

It's getting pretty annoying reading about all these OC'd 460 comparisons to a stock 5850.
Click to expand...

I should've been more clear - I have the same beef as you: if you overclock one card, you better compare to an overclocked counterpart.

I was responding to Lorien's comment that an OC'd 5850 is a lot faster, so I was just pointing out you can simply OC the 460 to close the gap. When they're both overclocked, they're comparable once again.
 
Lorien said:
Since when is a 460 $100 cheaper than a 5850? If you are comparing the cheapest 768 memory 460 to the most expensive 1GB 5850 then you are a fool.
A GTX 460 1GB is only $30 cheaper than a HD 5850 1GB and the 5850 can be overclocked easily to 5870 clocks which crushes both the overclocked 768MB and 1GB GTX460 performance. There is simply no comparison. The best value has always been the 5850.
Click to expand...

a quick newegg search shows that the cheapest 5850 is $280 and the most expensive is $350. whereas the cheapest 460 is $199 and the most expensive is $270 for the oced galaxy card.

argue what you want, but the cheapest 460 to cheapest 5850 comes out to an $80 price difference. even the non overclocked versions of the 1gb 460 are $50 cheaper than the cheapest 5850.

a quick googling found passmarks video card benchmark scoreboard listing the 5850 at 2409 points and the 460 at 2254 points. according the this particular benchmark that is less than a 7% performance increase for an 18% premium. i realize that the scores may be different from other benchmarks and in-game testing, but im just doing a rough comparison.

clearly you need to reexamine your definition of value. that is a significant amount of extra money to pay for a not so significant amount of performance. couple that with the fact that the 768mb 460 seems to be within 1-2fps of the 1gb version at stock clocks and even beats the 1gb in certain games bringing the value of the 5850 down even further.

you speak of overclocking the 5850 while forgetting the key fact that the 460 overclocks like a beast as well. you should also remember that most users will not overclock their cards.

all that taken into consideration i would rather have a 5850 because it is faster, however i cannot justify the extra $50 when i consider that i also have to upgrade my psu. if we are talking about value then there really is no comparison: the 460 wins hands down.
 
herfalerf said:
all that taken into consideration i would rather have a 5850 because it is faster, however i cannot justify the extra $50 when i consider that i also have to upgrade my psu. if we are talking about value then there really is no comparison: the 460 wins hands down.
Click to expand...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king/17

Uhh yeah?

Just quit with your bullshit already. Upgrade your PSU for a 5850? God I'd love to have what you're smoking. Would make my day go by easier. The shit that's posted on this forum lately is ridiculous. You better upgrade your PSU for the 460 alright.
 
i have to upgrade my psu regardless. since you have absolutely no idea of what kind of system i am running i advise you to take your own advice and quit the bullshit. you clearly did not understand my post so i will spell it out for you: i cannot justify spending an extra $50 on a video card because I HAVE TO BUY A NEW PSU REGARDLESS OF WHAT CARD I BUY and my budget is already stretched. there.
 
Last edited:
herfalerf said:
i have to upgrade my psu regardless. since you have absolutely no idea of what kind of system i am running i advise you to take your own advice and quit the bullshit. you clearly did not understand my post so i will spell it out for you: i cannot justify spending an extra $50 on a video card because I HAVE TO BUY A NEW PSU REGARDLESS OF WHAT CARD I BUY and my budget is already stretched. there.
Click to expand...

Mabye you shouldn't buy a video card right now at all.
 
herfalerf said:
i have to upgrade my psu regardless. since you have absolutely no idea of what kind of system i am running i advise you to take your own advice and quit the bullshit. you clearly did not understand my post so i will spell it out for you: i cannot justify spending an extra $50 on a video card because I HAVE TO BUY A NEW PSU REGARDLESS OF WHAT CARD I BUY and my budget is already stretched. there.
Click to expand...

I don't give a damn what you're running. Could be a atom for all I care.

I'm glad you made it clearer. Your original post is full of bullshit, however.

A 5850 uses less power and offers more performance per watt than the 460.
 
here comes another 460 vs 5850 thread. how long before it's closed!! :p

BTW op, if that is the case, then why is the GTX470 priced at $150 more then the GTX460? the 5850 and GTX470 are pretty close in performance.
 
herfalerf said:
i have to upgrade my psu regardless. since you have absolutely no idea of what kind of system i am running i advise you to take your own advice and quit the bullshit. you clearly did not understand my post so i will spell it out for you: i cannot justify spending an extra $50 on a video card because I HAVE TO BUY A NEW PSU REGARDLESS OF WHAT CARD I BUY and my budget is already stretched. there.
Click to expand...

If we're looking at performance, 5850 > 460, period. The only time this isn't the case is during a cheater benchmark where you're comparing an OCed 460 to a stock 5850. An apples to apples comparison has the 5850 on top the vast majority of the time, and by a good margin in a few games. There are easily verifyable facts that can be looked up in just about any 460 review (most of them also include a 5850 to compare it to)
 
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