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GSYNC, FREESYNC, and the Consumer

spine said:
Seems to me adaptive refreshrate is one of those technologies that'll be taken for granted as standard in the future, but right now needs to be carefully implemented.

The change needed is for all LCD panels produced to be capable of variable refresh. Right now, most aren't and the world will have to wait for LG, AUO, etc to deplete inventory of their older panels before the new tech can become ubiquitous.

I don't see much of a future for G-Sync, but I'm sure Nvidia would happily agree, and have released it anyway for those who care and say "Here it is, right now, but you pay for it". I applaud nvidia for this approach, it's how things improve; it made AMD respond with Freesync and will ultimately result in all panels fundamentally using adaptive refresh rates.


AMD may look like the good guys right now, but really it's nvidia who'll later be able to say "You're welcome". ;)
Click to expand...

Same could be said about Mantle= DX12, Vulkan, Metal.
 
Lol at all the people who think Free Sync sucks -- it is just as capable as GSync -- just the first couple of monitors that came out have had very limited range. Thats not the fault of free sync, it's the fault of THOSE monitors. Give it some time, and watch, GSYNC will go away and everyone will use FreeSync ...
 
Final8ty said:
Same could be said about Mantle= DX12, Vulkan, Metal.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I feel sorry for AMD that Mantle essentially got hijacked. But competition benefits consumers and we're going to be better off as a result.

extide said:
Lol at all the people who think Free Sync sucks -- it is just as capable as GSync -- just the first couple of monitors that came out have had very limited range. Thats not the fault of free sync, it's the fault of THOSE monitors. Give it some time, and watch, GSYNC will go away and everyone will use FreeSync ...
Click to expand...

I think G-Sync is technically superior, but I'd agree the current Freesync implementations haven't been the best. I really hate to use the term, but right now Freesync seems to be the 'poor mans' (ugh!) G-Sync.

I evidence that based on what we see with in the Acer XG270HU/XB270HU: The G-Sync model is an expensive 144hz IPS panel, whereas the Freesync version is a much cheaper TN. No reason why the Freesync couldn't have been IPS, but I assume Acer decided if people didn't want the G-Sync version it was due to cost, so they made the Freesync version the budget option.

Sad but true.

Personally, despite being pro nvidia, I want Freesync to be the standard. I think we all do...
 
PRIME1 said:
Maybe Freesync 2.0 will offer a hardware solution if AMD decides to stay with it. Until then, it's just not up to par.
Click to expand...

You still do not get it. AMD is not about to stick OEM with costs to add extra hardware. That idea is flawed it is so flawed that there was a driver revision from Nvidia that allowed a laptop to use G-sync without the physical module being present.

And Freesync works giving the dynamic range that it has some problems when getting below the set range is something they will figure out in software...

Both are niche products and the change that Nvidia will be selling G-sync monitors with modules in 2016 would be slim to none (unless they keep paying OEM).

The difference is the cost to OEM....
 
Pieter3dnow said:
That idea is flawed it is so flawed that there was a driver revision from Nvidia that allowed a laptop to use G-sync without the physical module being present.
Click to expand...

Just because it made the g-sync option appear in the control panel does not mean that it actually worked (and no it did not work). G-sync requires a dedicated hardware module which that laptop lacked.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
You still do not get it. AMD is not about to stick OEM with costs to add extra hardware. That idea is flawed it is so flawed that there was a driver revision from Nvidia that allowed a laptop to use G-sync without the physical module being present.

And Freesync works giving the dynamic range that it has some problems when getting below the set range is something they will figure out in software...

Both are niche products and the change that Nvidia will be selling G-sync monitors with modules in 2016 would be slim to none (unless they keep paying OEM).

The difference is the cost to OEM....
Click to expand...

the thing is, some of us want much higher quality scalars, and that should be an option aside from having to move to nvidia.
 
extide said:
Thats not the fault of free sync, it's the fault of THOSE monitors.
Click to expand...

You make a good point. With Gsync you know you will get a working product because of the module. However with Freesync you don't know what you will get, as the quality will vary widely from panel to panel. Plus you have to rely heavily on AMD's drivers which have never been very good.
 
Jesus can we have someone rename PRIME1 to NvidiaShill?

GSYNC is BAD for Consumers, because it forces you to use a single piece of hardware, its vendor lock in.
 
be careful, every time i point that out about that particular person, i get infracted...
 
PRIME1 said:
You make a good point. With Gsync you know you will get a working product because of the module. However with Freesync you don't know what you will get, as the quality will vary widely from panel to panel. Plus you have to rely heavily on AMD's drivers which have never been very good.
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I'm sure the monitor manufacturers will sort it out quickly, no one is going to be buying monitors that don't work very well. Also, there really isn't any reason to slander AMD's drivers, they've been perfectly fine since the whole Windows Vista all drivers went to hell era. Consequently AMD's drivers were actually better than Nvidia's for a while. I remember when Vista came out I used to get a Nvidia driver crash at least once a day.

Personally I can't wait for Nvidia to support Gsync on all Adaptive-Vsync compatible monitors (these are the monitors people call "Freesync monitors", there actually aren't any Freesync specific monitors). They're already doing it for laptops so I imagine an unofficial hack is not very far away and official support will show up right after Nvidia gives up on their expensive add-in board required idea they're selling now.
 
Monitor quality is at the discretion of the monitor manufacturers as it should be. There are tons of really nice monitors on the market and tons of crap ones. That's why there are tons of review websites like [H]ardocp.
 
PRIME1 said:
You make a good point. With Gsync you know you will get a working product because of the module. However with Freesync you don't know what you will get, as the quality will vary widely from panel to panel. Plus you have to rely heavily on AMD's drivers which have never been very good.
Click to expand...

As long as you look the other way about people having issues with G-Sync monitors, sure...
 
cageymaru said:
Monitor quality is at the discretion of the monitor manufacturers as it should be. There are tons of really nice monitors on the market and tons of crap ones. That's why there are tons of review websites like [H]ardocp.
Click to expand...

Execpt [H] doesn't review monitors..:eek::confused:
 
PRIME1 said:
It's the title of this thread. Pay attention. Adaptive sync is a power saving feature.
Click to expand...

Ok. But again, he didn't saying anything about FreeSync.
Ummm... no it isn't. It is a VESA Specification.

To mirror your twisted way of thinking, GSync is a money scamming feature.
 
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Its going to be funny to revisit this thread next year, when Async is on every new monitor, and Gsync is dead as a doornail.

Free=Commodity
Proprietary=fringe
 
I will go with neither, because I'm not going to spend extra for a gsync monitor but I only buy nvidia video cards (had ati/amd from x800xl up to 6850, drivers sucked the whole time, nvidia has been smooth sailing for me).
 
The Mac said:
Its going to be funny to revisit this thread next year, when Async is on every new monitor, and Gsync is dead as a doornail.

Free=Commodity
Proprietary=fringe
Click to expand...

I remember AMD fans saying something similar when AMD bought ATI. That NVIDIA was dead and AMD was going to be so successful

Now AMD is on the verge of bankruptcy and NVIDIA is worth more than AMD and ATI combined.

Either way. CUDA outlived Brook+, Physx outlived Mantle and Gsync will outlive Freesync.

:D
 
and now PhysX is free (not open)

and Direct Compute is becoming more popular than Cuda.

and there are more Async monitors announced then there are current Gsync monitors.

go figure....

its all irelevent,

a lot of Nvidia's proprietary tech is now being marginalized...
 
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PRIME1 said:
CUDA outlived Brook+, Physx outlived Mantle and Gsync will outlive Freesync.
Click to expand...

CUDA is functionally dead, no one wants to write multiple compute paths for different vendors. Physx is functionally irrelevant and Nvidia has to pay companies to include support for it. Proprietary tech either takes over or it dies out and since Nvidia never licenses it out to their competitors it's doomed to die.

The only reason we have x86-64 is because Intel licensed x86 to AMD and AMD licensed its 64bit extensions back to Intel. This is the same reason Apple doesn't have a majority of the smartphone market anymore, single source technology is never going to be universal so eventually it dies out.
 
DracoNB said:
Jesus can we have someone rename PRIME1 to NvidiaShill?

GSYNC is BAD for Consumers, because it forces you to use a single piece of hardware, its vendor lock in.
Click to expand...

So you are saying Chipsets are bad because it locks you to a vendor? (You can only use Intel chipsets with intel CPU's, and AMD with AMD's. Hell you can't even use old stuff with new stuff most of the time.

Vendor lock-in is nothing new, and unfortunately G-sync isn't the only case of vendor lockin.
 
As a CRT user, I got no horse in this race. However, if I was to look out for a new monitor, I would probably buy a Gsync monitor just because the monitor that I happen to be interested in (that Acer IPS with strobing) is a GSync monitor. I see the two technologies (FreeSync and GSync) as a "take it or leave it" option, that is a great feature at best, and inconvenient at worst. If I go Nvidia, then I'll reap the benefits of GSync (or at least - I'll be able to try it out). I'm pretty sure that the strobing feature isn't locked to Gsync in particular, but because GSync does have a ULMB mode, some monitor manufacturers may lock it to Nvidia hardware. If I go AMD, then I'll need a card that can do adaptive sync.

I don't personally see any problem with purchasing a monitor like the Acer, which has good colors, and good motion clarity. However, I would venture to wait until the dust settles and then purchase a monitor when adaptive sync is THE standard, and the proprietary paths are out of the way. Being vendor-locked isn't all that great, no matter which company you favor. In a sense, I'm kind of vendor-locked myself, as Nvidia is the only manufacturer still making video cards with analog output these days.
 
It's ok, AMD is almost completely dead anyway. We soon won't need to worry about those silly threads :D
 
kalston said:
It's ok, AMD is almost completely dead anyway. We soon won't need to worry about those silly threads :D
Click to expand...

AMD was dead 10 years ago too and if you read this board every time AMD releases something the comments read AMD can't beat X or Y now it is dead, followed by people who watch the stockmarket and say yeah AMD is almost dead.

The problem is that _if_ AMD goes the way of the dodo then you will be paying stupid amounts of money for simple things as a mid range cpu or gpu.

Not really something you want is it?
 
Pieter3dnow said:
AMD was dead 10 years ago too and if you read this board every time AMD releases something the comments read AMD can't beat X or Y now it is dead, followed by people who watch the stockmarket and say yeah AMD is almost dead.

The problem is that _if_ AMD goes the way of the dodo then you will be paying stupid amounts of money for simple things as a mid range cpu or gpu.

Not really something you want is it?
Click to expand...

The smiley at the end of my post was an indication that this wasn't a serious post btw. I'm not happy about it just like I'm not happy about Intel dominating the CPU market for years and doing whatever the fuck they want. But there have been numbers posted recently and the fact is, AMD is doing REALLY really bad nowadays.
 
FWIW for a period of 4 months roughly between Nov 15 2008 and Mar 15 2009 AMD's stock was also hovering below the $2.50 mark. AMD then dropped below $2.50 again for roughly the week of Jan 15 2015 and rebounded, then dipped below the $2.50 mark for a thrid time on Apr 20 this year and has been hovering there since then.
 
I genuinely can't believe that AMD still exists with the financials they have.
 
Quix said:
I genuinely can't believe that AMD still exists with the financials they have.
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They just keep shrinking. They sold off their headquarters, fired a bunch of people and they keep cutting their R&D budget. They can only do that for so long. 2Q results are going to be really bad and their stock will likely crash. It may be just enough to finish them off.
 
PRIME1 said:
They just keep shrinking. They sold off their headquarters, fired a bunch of people and they keep cutting their R&D budget. They can only do that for so long. 2Q results are going to be really bad and their stock will likely crash. It may be just enough to finish them off.
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You know absolutely nothing and I mean nothing. After 2nd quarter results it wont change much. AMD mentioned in their last financial meeting they expect a loss so nothing new. Besides if they do release the 300 series then likely may have increase.
 
durquavian said:
You know absolutely nothing and I mean nothing. After 2nd quarter results it wont change much. AMD mentioned in their last financial meeting they expect a loss so nothing new. Besides if they do release the 300 series then likely may have increase.
Click to expand...

There is only so much food you can take away from your golden goose before it's dies from starvation. R&D budget is your golden goose. Intel realized that and that's why they are able to do what they do.

I want a freesync or gsync monitor badly. The idea of adaptive refresh rates makes me want it so badly.
 
PRIME1 said:
They just keep shrinking. They sold off their headquarters, fired a bunch of people and they keep cutting their R&D budget. They can only do that for so long. 2Q results are going to be really bad and their stock will likely crash. It may be just enough to finish them off.
Click to expand...
I like how everyone says that AMD R&D is getting cut like it is being slashed in half every month or something along those lines.
Look at all the new tech/improvements AMD has come out with. All that must have been given to some AMD worker in one of his dreams. :D The way I see it AMD has been a company that is leading in R&D related things. Here are a a couple of those things in case you are not freshly versed in them: free-sync, APU's, HBM, XDMA (bridge-less crossfire), and the Mantle API.
What new tech has Nvida and Intel come out with recently? Their R&D budget must be staggering. :p
 
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I love people who look at the bottom line of AMD and then let their imagination fill in everything else with zero knowledge of how AMD operates currently. :D
 
I am no fan of either side. I really believe amd has been building next gen architecture behind scenes for few years now and we will finally see something come up in 2016. I really think they will have something worthy on the cpu front and they have been competing just fine on the gpu side other than them implementing HBM which I thin played a great part in delay of R300 series gpu's. I think 2016 will finally be a the year that makes or breaks amd, if they fail at next gen cpu then I believe they will probably pay the price for it.
 
I don't think rebadging a bunch of old chips into the 300 series will help their situation. It will only serve to make things worse.
 
This thread has gone far off topic. Here is everything you need to know about Gsync vs Freesync. /thread.

MTNmREO.jpg
 
PRIME1 said:
This thread has gone far off topic. Here is everything you need to know about Gsync vs Freesync. /thread.
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That has nothing to do with the Freesync/adaptive sync technology, but rather monitor makers didn't implement Freesync + pixel overdrive working at the same time.

The best part about G-sync is spending the extra $200 on the monitor, whereas on AMD you'll be able to spend the extra $200 upgrading to higher-end graphics card.
 
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