GRAW 2 Extreme Physx Performance

[Chameleoki]

Hello all. I just got my BFG PPU to go along with my 4870X2. GRAW 2 runs great with everything on max EXCEPT for the Extreme setting for the physx. I have the options and if I set it to High, it runs smooth as butter. As soon as I enable Extreme, it slows down to intolerable levels.

I have Vista 64, the latest Physx drives from Nvidia's site, and I'm running at 1920x1200. Does enabling Extreme really cause a slowdown with a PPU? Is it the Nvidia drivers? Should I go back to older drivers if I can find them?

Demos and such seem to run fine so I think it's working. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[wkarma]

Extreme mode was for a next-gen PPU that was never released, originally.

 

[Chameleoki]

Wow. That is good to know but wasn't what I was expecting! Thanks.

 

[Atech]

Extreme mode was for a next-gen PPU that was never released, originally.

Runs fine by me, any source on that?

 

[Scali2]

This article shows that the PPU does indeed limit the performance of 4850 and 4870 cards:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/physx_performance_update/

GPU PhysX are faster than GPU + PPU, even for an 8800GT.

So I wouldn't be surprised if GRAW2 is limited by the PPU aswell in Extreme mode.

It also shows that all the naysayers thinking that GPUs would not be able to handle physics and graphics at the same time were utterly wrong.
The only thing better than a GPU doing PhysX is two GPUs.

 

[nst6563]

FWIW I have a GTX260 doing the graphics and a 8800GTS640 doing the physx and I can enable the Extreme mode in GRAW2 and it's very playable. Sad that the rest of the game isn't like the Ageia level though. The destroyable buildings were very cool and the fact you could tke down the entire gaurd tower with a granade to supports was sweet.

 

[Scali2]

FWIW I have a GTX260 doing the graphics and a 8800GTS640 doing the physx and I can enable the Extreme mode in GRAW2 and it's very playable. Sad that the rest of the game isn't like the Ageia level though. The destroyable buildings were very cool and the fact you could tke down the entire gaurd tower with a granade to supports was sweet.

I tried it on a single 8800GTS320 and it didn't seem to have a lot of problems with Extreme mode... but perhaps I just didn't blow up enough stuff at a time

I think the game would have made more of an impact if I had played it before Crysis though.
In Crysis I also blew up guard towers and buildings and all that, and the whole game looked better and played better doing it.
Is it me, or are the controls, graphics and gameplay in GRAW2 just rather poor? I just didn't really enjoy the game as a whole. It didn't really suck me in, because most things just felt too artificial to me. I tried turning off the PhysX stuff to see if the game would get faster and more maneuvrable, but it didn't make a difference, it's just how that game is.

 

[Atech]

It also shows that all the naysayers thinking that GPUs would not be able to handle physics and graphics at the same time were utterly wrong.
The only thing better than a GPU doing PhysX is two GPUs.

´

What a lie...
NVIDIA/ATI promised GPU-physcis in 2006 on current hardware...they lied.
NVIDIA/ATI promised GPU-physcis in 2007 on current hardware...they lied

Back to ignore with you, trolls I can take...but dedicated liars I can not take.

 

[Scali2]

nVidia didn't lie, technically.
The 8800 series is hardware from 2006, and it runs GPU-physics.

Other than that I don't see how any of that can be tied to what I said being a lie.

 

[GotNoRice]

This article shows that the PPU does indeed limit the performance of 4850 and 4870 cards:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/physx_performance_update/

How does that article show the PPU limiting the performance of 4850 and 4870 cards? Those cards can’t do PhysX on their own, and they are faster with the PPU in those games/benchmarks. Looks like the PPU is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do and increasing performance.

 

[Scali2]

How does that article show the PPU limiting the performance of 4850 and 4870 cards? Those cards can’t do PhysX on their own, and they are faster with the PPU in those games/benchmarks. Looks like the PPU is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do and increasing performance.

Simple.
I think we can take the following as absolute truths:
1) The 4870 is a faster card than the 4850, by a reasonable margin
2) Both cards are faster than the 8800GT.

Now look at the results of 4850 and 4870.
You will note the following:
a) They perform within 1 fps of eachother in these tests (pretty much the margin of error).
b) When tested with a PPU, the various GeForce cards also score about the same fps as the Radeon cards do.
c) When tested with GPU PhysX, all tested GeForce cards get higher fps than with the PPU.
d) Even the 8800GT, which is a slower card than both the 4850 and 4870 in most games, scores considerably higher fps than the 4850 and 4870 with GPU PhysX.

Given these facts I conclude that the PPU is holding back the performance of all videocards, including the Radeons. The difference between a 4850 and 4870 is negligible. Even a 4870X2 would most probably not score higher.

Sure, running with a PPU is faster than without a PPU, but that's not AMD's biggest concern right now. The performance of their cards is limited by a technology that is in the hands of their competitor.
Unless they find a better way to perform physics, they'll be CPU-limited or PPU-limited in games like these, and nVidia tries to make sure that there will be as many of these games as possible.

 

[GotNoRice]

The disparity between the PPU and GPU PhysX benchmark numbers in UT3 and Warmonger are what, around 5fps? That’s not very much especially when you consider that the benchmarks were run with No AA or AF, and at only 1600x1200. 5fps isn’t a huge margin if you were to start cranking up the res, even to something like 1920x1200 which is the native res of many displays now, as well as a healthy amount of AA and AF which would represent more realistic settings. The Nurien benchmarks were faster but those were run at an even lower res of 1280x1024.

You do have a point about the tough spot ATi/AMD is in since most users will not have a PPU or any ability to compute PhysX in any way, but for those with a PPU, it is still a very viable option and I think you are overstating the advantage of Cuda GPU PhysX in real world situations.

 

[Scali2]

The disparity between the PPU and GPU PhysX benchmark numbers in UT3 and Warmonger are what, around 5fps?

You're looking at it the wrong way.
No matter how fast AMD makes its GPUs, and no matter what resolution you run, they can never get faster than the framerate they're currently getting, because the PPU is limiting them.
nVidia doesn't have this limit. If they make a faster GPU, it will also process the physics faster, so the framerate can scale.
So yes, perhaps the difference isn't that large now, but it will be eventually, as nVidia introduces faster GPUs.

and I think you are overstating the advantage of Cuda GPU PhysX in real world situations.

I think that's completely your own imagination, because I never said anything about real-world situations whatsoever.
I said this: "Unless they find a better way to perform physics, they'll be CPU-limited or PPU-limited in games like these, and nVidia tries to make sure that there will be as many of these games as possible."

 

[Chameleoki]

So, what I'm hearing is that people are enabling the Extreme mode with little problem? Anyone with a PPU confirm this?

 

[Atech]

So, what I'm hearing is that people are enabling the Extreme mode with little problem? Anyone with a PPU confirm this?

I always run GRAW2 in "extreme physics".

 

[Chameleoki]

I always run GRAW2 in "extreme physics".

Crap. Are you running 64-bit or 32-bit?

I am running Vista Ultimate x64 4GB RAM, 4870x2. I have tried disabling one or the cards, different resolutions, disabling a gig of ram, rolling back to older drivers for the PPU/Physx SDK and still have the slideshow when I enable Extreme. Anyone have any ideas?

Also, are you running (or can you) run a level with no bots of cellfactor: revolution and let me know the res and fps? If it's just GRAW 2 then I won't worry too much about it. I want to be sure it's okay in everything else but I don't have any baseline to go off of. The demos that come with the card run fine, but then again I'm not sure what fps I SHOULD be getting.

 

[Atech]

Crap. Are you running 64-bit or 32-bit?

I am running Vista Ultimate x64 4GB RAM, 4870x2. I have tried disabling one or the cards, different resolutions, disabling a gig of ram, rolling back to older drivers for the PPU/Physx SDK and still have the slideshow when I enable Extreme. Anyone have any ideas?

Also, are you running (or can you) run a level with no bots of cellfactor: revolution and let me know the res and fps? If it's just GRAW 2 then I won't worry too much about it. I want to be sure it's okay in everything else but I don't have any baseline to go off of. The demos that come with the card run fine, but then again I'm not sure what fps I SHOULD be getting.

I game under XP 32 bit, so might be a (yet another)64 bit issue.