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graphing calcs.... convince my dad?

W

WrathBringer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Messages
1,081
I have come to face one of the biggest hurdles of life... somehow convince my math wiz dad that I need a graphing calculator. so please, who ever else that is good at math? explain to him how it supposedly makes your life easier? (I'm only in gr10 math so..can't rlly impress dad)
 
how about the fact that most schools require a graphing calculator for Algebra and beyond?


I was good at math, but from 7th grade on, I was required to have a graphing calculator.

In class, if you didn't have one, you borrowed one from the closet.

I've gone from the TI-81 to the 85, from the 85 to the 86, from the 86 to the 89, and from the 89 to the Voyage 200.

if you're going to buy one, get a TI-89 or Voyage 200...you'll be set for the foreseeable future.

you'll also need a graphing calcular for when you get into calculus....
 
10th grade math as in algebra 2? Geometry? algebra 1a 1b? Diff peeps have diff math classes in 10th grade. and I dont really think you need one in 10th grade =/
 
the ti-83 is the most widely used calc for HS and some college, if you play on taking calculus or higher then you'll need a ti-89.
 
well my teacher recommands one, and i'm gonna need it anyways. and well my dad is SUPER good at math and he says i can do everything by hand... so like drop in university questions for all I care because he says he can do it by hand.......

anyways, I was thinking of getting a palm and install the graphing calc software on there so its not a waste of money as the palm can be used for other purposes...
 
Most teachers won't let you use Palms on quizzes and tests. Also, I highly doubt the software will be as good as the TI-89 and what can be downloaded for it. Just get a TI-89, you won't regret it.
 
Funny thing is, we can't use graphing calculators in university on Quizzes and Tests. (4th Year Mechanical Engineering)
(I still have my TI-86 from highschool)
 
Theroretically you can do most math by hand, all calculators really do is take all the middle stuff and do it for you. I have a TI-86 and thats what I would recomend. Most HS and College classes call for a TI-83 and thats what most teachers will use so you;ll have to figure some things out on your own but its not that hard. Calculators just make math easier, the important thing is to make sure you understand concepts and not just, when I have these numbers and I want this answer I don this in my calculator and then have no concept of what the calculator is actually doing. Graphing calculators are a real help when you start taking stats and calc and you are constantly having to graph crap.
 
Originally posted by WrathBringer
well my teacher recommands one, and i'm gonna need it anyways. and well my dad is SUPER good at math and he says i can do everything by hand... so like drop in university questions for all I care because he says he can do it by hand.......

anyways, I was thinking of getting a palm and install the graphing calc software on there so its not a waste of money as the palm can be used for other purposes...
Click to expand...

You can do anything by hand.

The difference is in the speed.

If you don't want to take 5 hrs doing homework in college, you'll need the calculator. And solving multiple integrals / extra long error permutation equations / quadriture error analysis / best fit graphs / Taylor series / McLauren Series by hand is not only a pain, but takes HOURS.
 
Graphing calculators are absolutely nessecary if you are going to continue on in math. You will probably need it for some high school tests, and you need it if you take the AP test. Get a TI-89 it will help when you have to integrate. Learning how to use a TI-89 early is one of the best moves you can make.
 
oh i'm not a math lover, I just want to do watever I can to get over 95%. I need it for my buisness stuff in University. just thought that the calc is gonna make my life easy and easy = higher mark. I will mostly do finance stuff in university if that helps...
 
i have a Ti-83+ and i'm in 9th grade (though i've skipped a grade in math, so i'm doing some weird course that's a blend of Geometry and Algebra).

the calc is absolutely necessary for me, why?

no, not because i'm an idiot and know not how to do anything without one, but merely because of the time. If i didn't have one, i'd fail my tests because i just don't have the time to hand check sine or cosine or parabola graphs by hand.

whatabout 3-variable+ systems? sure i could do them using substitution or elimination or w/e. It'll take me a page and a half, but i can do it. In fact, if I were to do it by hand, i'd fail my tests; once again, it all comes down to time.

howabout matrix equations? Can I find the inverse of a 4x4 matrix and then multiply it by another 2x2 matrix? Absolutely. If you give me a few extra hours to do the rest of my test...

Some of the above was hyperbole; but really, I know that having a graphing calculator is essential for my math course. Simply because of time.
 
you dont need a graphing calculater for 10th grade geometry. i too am in the class and i dont even bother using my ti-83. i think besides playing games, i have used the calculater twice.

im a math nerd and doing math in my head turns me on :D
 
for geometry a graphing calculator is absolutely pointless. for algebra 2/trig/calc and beyond i'd highly recommend one (i haven't gotten beyond calc - still in calc 2 :) ) I'd recommend whatever your teacher is going to be teaching on - most likely a ti83 plus (don't get the regular ti83). you could get the ti89, it's a lot more powerful. and higher resolution. but a lot of teachers won't let you use it in algebra 2 because of it's extra powerful fun features.

edit: my view on calculators:
you should be able to do everything by hand should you need to. you should learn by hand. once you've solidly learned something, THEN you go ahead and use the calculator to save time.
 
You'll most likely need one in the future, no matter how good you are at math, I've had a math teacher give out tests on just how to use the calculator itself, like what sequences of buttons to push. Nothing even math related :rolleyes:
 
I have a ti86.. and so far I have never been required to have a graphing calculator.. Perhaps I will need it for calculus.

Anyways.. its useful to have a graphing calculator esp for algII graphing stupid polynomials and doing those matrixes

I was never allowed to use a graphing calculator during any of my tests or quizzes.. allowed for the sat tho..

Oh and graphing calculators are useful for science classes.. I had a nice periodic table for chem and a bunch of programs for my physics classes.
 
I'd caution against the purchase of a TI-89 or other high level calculator for a couple of reasons. In your basic math courses, even through college you will use the TI-83, it might seem cool to have a more powerful calculator, but not so cool when everyone else knows the TI-83 so well and no one can help with the other obscure ones. I have about 5 friends with 85's, 86's, or 89's, and I myself have an HP-49G, but end up going back to their trusty 83's just because they do what you need. Another reason not to buy a more advanced calculator is that you cannot use them in many standarized tests, at my high school 89's and up and the like are not allowed because they have numeric solvers and can do all of the work for you.

If you end up taking higher level math, by all means buy an 89 or 92, but all you need for now is a simple TI-83 to do your basic adding, dividing, graphing, d&d dice rollers :D and the like.
 
I was never allowed to use a calc in high school. Inexplicably, the high school required us to have one, but we were never allowed to use it. You don't need a calculator for 10th grade math (unless you were in some really really high level course). I've gone through calculus 1 - 4, diferential equations, probability, linear algebra, discrete math, and all that junk never being able to use a calculator.

And it doesn't make life easier, it makes people lazier. My dad also was a math wiz, so he didn't really see the point of letting me use a calc.
 
I never used a graphing calculuator. I don't know about the gr10 math now (I did it 3 years ago) and where you are...but I didn't really use it much at all. If i were to dump $100 or whatever it is on it, nah.. I'd save my money.

Math wiz dad? Wicked. Statician? Mathematician? I'm studying Pure Math, and even if we were allowed to use calculators, they couldn't help us in the slightest bit :) (besides maybe emotional support)

//edit: Maybe for engineering it would be nice, but for math math courses... they're not allowed here. But be careful... if they are, they probably allow the lower models, not the higher ones. I'd stick with an 83 since it's pretty much standard...
 
The college I went to did not allow calculators on a test. So we had to hand figure everything in Trig and Calc AP. Having a calculator is nice and fast, but here's where the problem comes. When I took my finals for trig and calc AP and the teacher disallowed calculators, I had to hand figure everything. Now if I had been using a calculator, I would've been screwed. I wouldn't have cared to memorize formulas or nothing, cause the calculator does it all pretty much. On top of that, the test was also timed. So if I would've been using a calculator on homework then I wouldn't have had the extra practice I needed to get the problems done correctly and on a timely manner. Also allowing myself time to check over my answers to make sure they were correct. So although a calculator is nice, and I recommend you get one, make sure you also understand the concepts and know the formulas just in case.
After the test the teacher took both our scores on the tests and averaged them into one grade. Because of my constant practice without a calculator I was able to get a 97% A+. Which I also tied with someone else, both of us having the highest scores in our class.

Good Luck!
 
You are certainly expected to use a calculator or a computer in the job world especially when doing calculus+. any teacher or institution that dissalows them are ignorant as hell.

I'd advise getting the ti -89 or a HP 49g+ the HP is more scientific based with integrated formulas and shit for mostly anything.

I love my hp 48g. if only it did out calculus differentials and integrals step by step like humans have to. and I wouldn't of had to learn anything in calc 1 or 2 ;-)
 
I am in Algebra 2 and we use the calculator all the time. Stuff like best fit quadratics and trying to do combinations in probability by hand can be a pain. My teacher hates calculators and basically only lets us use it on tests when it is necessary. I think sometimes kids are allowed to use calcs at too young an age. I know for a fact that being allowed to use a regular scientific calculator in middle school dumbed me down and slowed down my basic math skills. Now I am bouncin' back.

Basically, 10th and up, you need a calc, and although the Ti-83+ isn't the greatest, most teachers won't accept anything better. You can generally pick them up for around $70-80 around Sept.
 
Seriously dude, you don't need a graphing calculator for 10th grade geometry. I bought a TI-86 for 10th grade but that is because I took trig in 10th grade. I just used a scientific calculator up til then. That is all you need. Once you hit trig, though, graphing calcs really help. Hell, my calc 3 prof wouldn't let us use calculators on his exams. He made the problems simple enough that we could do the calculations in our heads; if we needed a calculator then we were doing it wrong! Anyway, I got an HP-49g a couple semesters ago during calc II and I love it. So much better than the TI calcs. Also, pdas are absolutely HORRID for use as a calculator. DON"T DO IT! A calculator is more than just a backend processor and a screen. You need the 60 or so buttons on a calculator. Try doing your homework with a stylus and I bet you'll get pissed off pretty quickly. And there is no way you can fit the number of buttons on a calculator on the screen of a pda, so you would be switching modes quite often. I have poweronegraph and I have used it on the run when I didn't have my calculator with me, but if I was ever in a situation where I knew I would need a calculator then I would bring my calculator.

Bottom line, stick with a $10 scientific calc for now. If you can't do geometry on that, then a graphing calc will just hurt you more than it will help. Also, when you do decide to get a graphing calculator, check ebay around may or june. That's the end of the school year and there will be a lot of people who never want to see a calculator again and will sell theirs quite cheaply.
 
how about "i literally cannot pass freshman calculus without one"?

TI's are fine, never used anything else, and if a teacher knows a calc, itll be a TI most likely

and dont use a PDA, ive never ever taken a test where using a PDA has been acceptiable. you know, CHEATING and all. most places have made me clear my calc mem before the test.
 
Originally posted by lopoetve
If you don't want to take 5 hrs doing homework in college, you'll need the calculator. And solving multiple integrals / extra long error permutation equations / quadriture error analysis / best fit graphs / Taylor series / McLauren Series by hand is not only a pain, but takes HOURS.
Click to expand...
of course sometimes calc ii hw takes hours with a calculator.....

i was required to have a ti 83 throughout highschool and now in calc i (i don't know if it's actually required, but the professor made sure everyone had one). i actually got it in 8th grade because when my sister, who is a year older than me, went to high school (we went to the same hs) she needed it so my parents decided may as well get mine now. i've had it ever since then, freshman in college now, and it's been pretty much essential.
 
I have a TI-89. It's a great calculator. It integrates, solves equations, factors, finds zeros, differentiates, does limits, etc. Basically, it does everything I can, but better. But I can't use it on tests. So I end up using the TI-83s on tests, which is a pain, since I'm used to working with the 89. They are similar, but using a slightly unfamiliar calculator on a test is not beneficial.

I would recommend a TI-83. That is probably the best calculator you will be allowed to use in math class until college. The 89 is not allowed in most calculus and algebra classes. I hear it is fine for Stat, but in that it doesn't seem to be much better than an 83.
 
I dont know about you guys but my geometry class is REALLY easy. I'm in 9th grade. And also our teacher is so dumb for any problems I don't know I just blatantly cheat by getting up walking over to someones desk and look at there paper ;)
 
Originally posted by mcryptic
the ti-83 is the most widely used calc for HS and some college, if you play on taking calculus or higher then you'll need a ti-89.
Click to expand...
Lies, my damn Calculus professor in college wouldn't let us use our TI-89's or 86's, only a 83. I think it was because they could do differentials/integrals, among other various stuff that he wanted us to do by hand.

You could get away without using a 83-89, as long as you have a lower model that can do natural logs, e's, square roots, etc. The only real advantage that they have is that they can graph (well duh they are called graphing calculators :p ). You will probably need to graph various equations even in high school math, at least I did. I seem to remember Pre-Calc and Calculus in high school required a 83 or above, also.
 
I've heard that palm software is better and faster than an 89. In any rate, get the TI-89, its a great tool and can make you work a lot of things much faster.

The whole "no calculators" thing is the biggest bullshit IMO. You'll be using one no matter where you are, if they care in school they should just make you show your work.
 
My college profs never let us use calcs. Triple Integration, differentiation, matrix inversing, matrix multiplication, combinatorics, permutations, everything's done by hand.

My roommate's a math and physics major and even he doesn't use a calc (he's taking a few high level math courses this quarter).

Don't know what everyone's complaining about, learn to do the math by hand before you even consider using a calc, otherwise you'll have no clue what to do in case you can't use one.
 
Originally posted by BillLeeLee
My college profs never let us use calcs. Triple Integration, differentiation, matrix inversing, matrix multiplication, combinatorics, permutations, everything's done by hand.

My roommate's a math and physics major and even he doesn't use a calc (he's taking a few high level math courses this quarter).

Don't know what everyone's complaining about, learn to do the math by hand before you even consider using a calc, otherwise you'll have no clue what to do in case you can't use one.
Click to expand...
Whoa, he has to have a low level calculator. I mean you do a lot of stuff 'by hand' but you still use a calculator to do things like take ln's while doing this, unless the professor wants answers exact and not rounded #'s. Of course you can do them in your head, in which case you are a freak :p . I remember my Physics teacher in high school could do massive powers, ln's, logs, etc. in his damn head. He could get them to like 3 decimal places too.
 
10th grade... you might not need it yet. But I'm an engineering student, and I've had my ti-89 for 5 years now (since 12th grade). I've found it extremely useful for all sorts of things. Especially AP physics, and Calc II/III

They're Especially useful for the programming aspect. Sure you can do lots of things by hand, but makeing a function that can quickly do a long set of mathmatical computations sure does make life easier later on.

Perhaps the most functional advantage is the screen buffer, where you can scroll up and see the last 40 or so calculations you've made allowing you to see where you added .07 where you should have subtracted, saving you from having to redo a computation that takes you 40 minutes

In high school i found that if you had a super calculator that could do symbolic integration, you'd be tempted to just punch it in and not learn the steps in between. Make sure if you get one that you use it to help you, not to skip out from learning how it works.

But I loved having mine in High School, and I found that I was ready to roll when i hit college because I wasn't afraid of complex math (or of math problems that can't be solved by hand).
 
Basicaly, the 83+ is the best calc to get, it will work in almost all applications, and most colleges and highschools, Depending on how "techie" your school is we had interfaces for labs in physical and chemistry that would input data from the sensors in to the calc and the computer and save it in the memory. Its also help full for graphing. You can save notes in the program feature if you know what you are doing. Also get the pc link and upload some games to it for the boring classes.. after a while the history teachers are like "WHY DO YOU HAVE THAT OUT IN MY CLASS" its great..

have fun.. they are going down in price check walmart or ebay.. i saw them for like 80 dollars.. and mine cost me like 110
 
You're better off learning how to do it well without the calculator, since usually you won't be allowed to use it on tests and exams.

How useful is it to have a calculator that makes your homework easier when it's only worth ~20%, and then fail your exams because you don't have the calculator?
 
I'm in 10th grade too. My teacher has them in the classroom if we need them (almost every other day). If we need them at home she tells us to go here...

http://www.coolmath.com/graphit/index.html

I say wait for 2 1/2 years and buy one that won't be out of date when you get to college.
 
Originally posted by bobsaget
I'm in 10th grade too. My teacher has them in the classroom if we need them (almost every other day). If we need them at home she tells us to go here...

http://www.coolmath.com/graphit/index.html

I say wait for 2 1/2 years and buy one that won't be out of date when you get to college.
Click to expand...

Out of date?

The TI-89 and it's derivatives have been around for over 8 years... they don't go "out of date" in any hurry...
 
Whoa... we don't use graphic calculators here period.

I made it all the way through second year at university maths without ever seeing one, the only mention was every exam had on the front we weren't allowed to use them.

Yes, we had to solve double integrals and matrices and matrix inversions and multivariable calculus and whatnot by hand... but it was never an issue because we learnt how.

Different systems I suppose? I knew you folk were awfully reliant on the things, but I didn't realise you were utterly dependant...
 
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