graphics/cost optimization (SLI vs Crossfire)

A

antipunt1

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
170
Hi guys; I'm new to the forum, but I think some of you may be able to help. :confused:

Currently my two techie friends are arguing over the 'optimal move' in terms of current video card updating. I built a new rig recently, and they differ immensely over the opinion of the best move.

One friend recommends cross-firing with this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-4850,1957.html

Apparently, according to friend #1, this new Radeon 4850 DOUBLES the power of the Geforce 8800 GT, and is only currently 20 bucks more. Following this, he suggests that the optimal setting would be to crossfire two of these babies.

Friend #2, the one who helped me build the rig itself, suggested to dual SLI with two 8800 GTs. For the price/power optimization, he says that SLI kicks Crossfire's butt, and that with crossfire you lose fps, and that it's not that great to suggest it, even with those new ATI cards. in other words, SLI > crossfire, and Nvidia > ATI generally.

In addition, Friend #2 suggested vista bit 32, while Friend #1 suggested vista bit 64 to "take advantage of your RAM", but this is another matter. The main problem is the video card debate. Wondering if you guys could help me out!! thanks! (in need of expertise)

PS: Friend #2 also said that cross-firing adds the additional problem of finding a 'good motherboard'. ATI, of course, would then require the other kind of mobo, and i quote from him in a G rated version, "the video cards [8800s] are fine, only a [dummy] will buy ati. Unless you want a slow [butt] ati with a slow [butt] amd mobo"

he also said in another previous msg, "good luck finding a good Intel ATI compatible mobo at the store."
 
I will have you know that friend 2 does not know what he is talking about in concerns with a good Intel board that supports crossfire. X38/X48/P35/P45 chipsets are all EXCELLENT chipsets that support crossfire. And in terms of what the better buy is, I'd suggest you get the crossfired 4850 over the 8800 GT's. If you want the best experience for crossfiring I suggest a X38/X48 as they will give you two cards both running at x16 instead of the P45 running at x8 on both lanes. Check out newegg for pricing on all the different types of boards with those chipsets. Also, Vista 64 is where it's at. At least in my opinion. The ability to get over 4GB of RAM certainly seems pretty future proof to me.
 
Your friend sounds like a raving fanboy, and an ill-informed one to boot. Crossfire scales as well as SLI does (better than SLI according to some). With SLI you are restricted to Nvidia chipsets, whereas Crossfire is supported by both Intel and AMD.
 
sounds like a fanboy to me. Right now crossfire is where it is at. If you are going intel, I feel, in general, that intel chipsets are better than nvidia chipsets so if you can go the intel route you should and that leads you directly to crossfire (for now)

Nvidia has been kicking ati's butt for a while now but in the price/performance war (as of today) it is a crossfire solution that wins. IMHO
 
Any and all muti-GPU solutions are to be avoided if at all possible. (This is from someone that ran Crossfire with X800s and SLI with 8800 GTXs) They are almost always more trouble than they're worth to get working properly, especially in new titles (though some companies like Blizzard refuse to support mutli-GPU outright) and the heat output and increased power draw is much higher than many anticipate.

If you can get away with a single GPU solution by all means go that route -- a Geforce 260 GTX or Radeon HD 4870 would be ideal, and should be enough for 9/10ths+ of people at 1920x1200 and below.

Failing that, keeping the bridge on the card seems to avoid /some/ though not all (still pulls much more power and runs much hotter) of the problems associated with mutl-GPU setups, so the Radeon HD 4870X2 should be next on your list.

"Friend #2" is a blatant uninformed fanboy, as others have already said. Ignore him entirely. Having run multiple Nvidia and Intel chipset motherboards -- several 680is, a 680i LT, and several 780is on the Nvidia front, several P35s, a G31, a G33, and a X38 on the Intel front -- I can reassert without any issue that Intel chipsets (which support Crossfire X) are generally more stable than Nvidia chipsets (which support SLI). That said, modern Nvidia boards, 780i and newer, have been stable enough for me that I cannot take any major issue with them. The 680i on the other hand was an absolutely horrible chipset.

I do not have any firsthand experience with AMD chipsets, but that's more or less irrelevant since only the most budget conscious of buyers (those who don't intend to game) would be building AMD at this point in time, given Intel is the clear performance leader this generation and not much if any more expensive.

"Friend #1" sounds a bit like an ATI fanboy, or at very least someone who's bought in to their marketing hype a little too completely -- the Radeon HD 4850 is not 2x as fast as an 8800 GT 512MB, more like 1.5x as fast, if that. It is, however, faster, and within the same general price bracket, so unless you get an exceptional deal on the 8800 GT the 4850 is the clear price/performance winner there.
 
Freind #2 needs to wise up. I'm neither an ATI or NVidia fanboy. But i know that both have their ups and downs. The 4850 isnt double what 8800GT is, probably 45% if that would be my guess.
 
Just get one high-end video card, not two mid-range cards. Its about quality, not quantity.
 
I would suggest getting 1 4870 and adding another 1 in later. That way you have an upgrade path to follow over two 4850s.
 
In my experience multi GPU has been flawless.
My GPU history (damn thats geeky)
goes a little like this.

9200
6800GT
X800XTPE
X1800XT
8800GTS
3870X2

The 3870X2 while one card is still crossfire but I really wouldnt know that at all because Ive never dealt with any Multi GPU issues. Every game works for me no driver crashes excellent performance in everything even Crysis. From my point of view go Multi GPU 4850 that seems like the best bang for the buck now a days.
 
^^^ thats what im doing atm, about to change out my mobo for a x48 board and buy another 4870 when the money comes.
 
side note get vista 64 bit. friend 2 sounds like a dumb ass fanboy. like others have said best way to go is single high end card.
 
Sounds like neither of your friends know anything about computers, though I'll forgive friend 1 over friend 2 because of his forgivable mistakes rather than the flaming fanboy that friend 2 is. :rolleyes:

An HD4850 won't be double the performance of an 8800GT, but it would be a healthy performance boost, but won't be anything to drop an 8800GT over, IMO. When friend 1 talked about getting a 64-bit OS to "take advantage of all your RAM" that only applies if you're at 4GB, as 32-bit OS's can only utilize up to 2^32 memory, or 4GB worth of memory. Anything past that, you'll need a 64-bit OS to take advantage of all that memory. ;)

Friend 2 has no idea what he's talking about. When he says Crossfire adds another problem of "finding a good motherboard", he must've been talking about his own experiences with SLI, and we all know what a general PITA Nvdia motherboards are like (hot, unstable, expensive, and proprietary). I would argue that Crossfire would leave you better options for motherboard selection, especially with the selection of good Intel (oh yeah, I forgot to mention that going Crossfire does not mean you need to get a "slow ass AMD" system :rolleyes:) motherboard and chipset. Look towards the good value P35 chipset, or even the recently launched P45 chipset, you can find good Asus, MSI, or Gigabyte (I prefer Gigabyte, they're awesome :)) motherboard for $150 or less, easily.

I would personally prefer the ATI/Intel route with further expandability with chipset flexibility and stability, especially when Nehalem rolls around, as well as overclocking potential. You don't really want to be in SLI motherboard hell, especially when you need to spend $200 to get a halfway decent Nvidia motherboard, and considering how they're trying to push Intel to stay proprietary with their X58 chipsets in regards to SLI, I suspect they're gonna open up anyways like AMD did with Crossfire when they lose more money on their "awesome" motherboard selections. :rolleyes:
 
The arguments can go either way, I just suggest that you spec out a system that can run all the games you want, on the monitor you will be using, at a specific resolution, and try to get them all run at 60 fps or higher. Buy whatever solution floats your boat, or budget that will do that, and I can guarantee you will be happy. Having a system that put out over 60 fps will just make it last all the longer before you have to upgrade again.
 
Syntax Error said:
When friend 1 talked about getting a 64-bit OS to "take advantage of all your RAM" that only applies if you're at 4GB, as 32-bit OS's can only utilize up to 2^32 memory, or 4GB worth of memory. Anything past that, you'll need a 64-bit OS to take advantage of all that memory. ;)
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The maximum 32-bit can address is 4GB, correct, but a good chunk of that will be reserved. Since the OP is talking about SLI/CF with 512mb cards, that alone would drop him to 3GB max. So I would figure the OP would be able to have a max of about 2.7gb of RAM on a 32-bit system. Given that they cost the same, and are both fairly solid, go with the 64-bit vista over the 32-bit vista.

As for the 4850 vs. 8800GT. Go with crossfired 4850s (you can get 'em for $150 now - which is only a bit more than an 8800GT) and a X38/X48, definitely the most bang for buck, especially compared to the 8800GT. That said, a single 4870 (or waiting for the 4870X2) would probably be the better route, as then you have an upgrade path.
 
So what i'm hearing here is that crossfire is a-ok, and that the 4850 is a better buy, but that the 8800GT isn't capsizing your boat into the depths of hell (I'm saying this b/c I already built the pc with dual 8800s before I posted). The one biggest regret, I guess, is my chipset-motherboard, the 750i (yeechk).

:eek: I am incredibly impressed by this forum. My friend was right suggesting it.

you guys are amazing, thank you very much. Although, just FYI, I've already built my pc and its up and running. I love it, but i'm kind of OCD are getting 'optimal parts' and the 'biggest bang for you buck', which is why I posted the argument here.

I should have posted my specs online here BEFORE I built the computer. But since it's all built and done (with the nvidia chipset and dual SLI 8800 gts) , I'll just remember to come back here in 3-4 years or so when I do my next major upgrade. Welll... maybe two years now that I have the 8800s dual SLI i guess...
 
soooo what you are trying to say was that your were you own "friend#2" :eek:

the 8800 GTS will last. so dont feel bad.
but agree with what was stated above, crossfire and sli are to be avoided, especially if you are looking for the best bang for buck. since they only provide marginal gains. A single GPU for now has better drivers and gives you a better bang for buck, and is supported by all games. SLI or crossfire is a hit or miss, but mostly a hit, but not at 100% improvement.
 
no I am not friend #2. Friend #2 is actually another guy, but I've never made a computer before. :p
so he helped me build it basically. From start to finish he helped me pick parts and put stuff together for the first time. It was then that Friend #1 found out what I had built, and started to suggest problems about my graphics card, saying I made a big mistake
 
I'm friend #1 ;)

Good to see some active discussion here and sound opinions. As our comments have been paraphrased and taken at face value, I'm sure friend #2 and I would like to clarify any misinterpretations of our opinions. That said, it wouldn't really do much other than save our own faces :), so I'll leave it at that.

Moral of the story, as I told antipunt1, is to make sure you're as informed as can be before dropping your hard earned cash on a new rig. And this means, among other things, getting more than just one or two people's opinions, and doing a lot of research on your own end.
 
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