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Katalysis

[H]ard|Gawd
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Aug 8, 2008
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Simply, I'm looking for a new system with cheap/on-board video (but with solid GPU upgradeability) to avoid purchasing a GPU until such times as games I actually want to play on PC are available. So, feel free to scroll down to get to the parts or read some story.

I used to be [H]ard. Like, K6-2 300 [H]ard. Now, I haven't build a new rig in over 5 years, and it was a 5 year lag between the prior one. College and law school drain a man's finances. So, I'm out of the loop, is what I'm saying. The desktop I had been running was a A64 2800+ affair with a non-flashable Radeon 9800SE if that takes anyone back. To make a long story short, I upgraded the GPU, but it fried, so I went back to the 9800SE which proceeded to crap out, so I am now pushing my T240HD with my laptop and its on-board video. Not a good scenario. Buying a new AGP GPU also seems like a waste of money. So, I'm looking for a cheap setup with upgradeability for a GPU when the usual suspects get released (SC2, Diablo 3, etc.), but I need a new machine to stop the general badness of rocking a mobile laptop at 1900x1200. I have an Xbox 360 for Fallout 3, thankfully. Aside from the future gaming, work is only writing, very rare photo shopping, multitasking between gaming and my Zune pass would be nice.

Budget: Cheaper the better, but no problem upgrading for price/performance. If I could get out of this for around $500, that would be great, but another $100 for substantially better performance is no big deal. I do not pay Egg tax, but I do pay Tiger tax.

Here's the parts I'm looking at:
PSU + Ram: This [H]ot deal. Corsair 750TX and 2x2GB G-Skill DDR2 800. Trying to stupidly future proof the PSU for a GPU upgrade in the next 6 months to a year. $115 AR.
Case: Open to combo suggestions, else the Antec 300. $60.
HDD: I would reuse my current drives, unless there is some sweet combo deal on loads of storage or those 320GB platter WD's I hear about. $0 to $???.
Optical: Whatever serviceable DVD burner is available. $25.
OS: Vista Home Premium 64. $100?
Sound: Onboard is ok unless there is room for something better. $0 to $??.
Cooling: Whatever will get the job done, or the Zalman+bracket. $35.
CPU: I've been out of the game so long, I'm not sure what to do hear, but $300 roughly remaining. I think a quad is not necessary. I hear people pushing the E8400, but the price seems out of whack. Is it that much better than a X2 6000+ or a 5400+ BE with a little overclock?
Mobo: Depends on the CPU, but this Biostar 790GX could combo with the X2 6000+ for $172.

Total: About $500 for the AMD setup. Probably looking at $650 for an Intel setup, not sure if it's worth it.

Then, a new GPU sometime next year. Thoughts? Any help would be appreciated.
 
Honestly, I'd go with the Intel setup and a E7200, if you're really trying to cut down on money. If you're into overclocking (it seems like it) then an E7200 can be pushed pretty hard also.
If you're still in college, see if your college sells a discounted version of Vista.
Get a Xigmatek+Bracket, not a zalman
Case: Whatever you thing looks good for the price you want. Cases are cases imo.
PS: Good idea, jump on it.
Sound: Onboard for now.
Mobo: Whatever you like, with a lot of OC options.
 
Drakan290 said:
Honestly, I'd go with the Intel setup and a E7200, if you're really trying to cut down on money. If you're into overclocking (it seems like it) then an E7200 can be pushed pretty hard also.
If you're still in college, see if your college sells a discounted version of Vista.
Get a Xigmatek+Bracket, not a zalman
Case: Whatever you thing looks good for the price you want. Cases are cases imo.
PS: Good idea, jump on it.
Sound: Onboard for now.
Mobo: Whatever you like, with a lot of OC options.
Click to expand...

I guess I should explain. I'm more just looking for value than trying to save money. I'm out of law school and working, but the girlfriend has ambitions to become the wife, and a new vehicle purchase is coming soon. So, I feel the need to justify the added value for the cost, but if it's there, I'll pay for it. If I get some beast machine before she gets an engagement ring, my balls are gonna be in a vise. :D

I meant the Xigmatek+bracket, thanks for reminding me.
 
Okay, well as of right now, you're going to find that after Pentium D, Intel ditched the netburst architecture and went with something called the core series. Core came from the Pentium M chips, which were much more power efficient, which is where the Core 2 series came from, the Core series. Core 2 Duo meaning the 2nd generation of Core with two cores working symmetrically. Core 2 Quad are actually two dual core processors with a buffer zone for all four to work together. (Core i7 and AMD Phenom series are 'true' quad core processors) However, after A64, AMD hasn't updated their platform much, so the performance is higher, but not redesigned higher, so the Core 2 series is where you're going to want to buy from.
Phew, lengthy explanation!

But in any case, The E7200/E7300 is on par with the performance of the E8400/E8500 when overclocked, to say that they get about the same clock speed when overclocked. If you're gaming with current, or even coming-soon games, like what you said, Diablo 3/ SC2, a E7200/E7300 will be perfect, especially if you're getting a Xigmatek and a decent motherboard.
So, to answer your question (Since you probably didn't read my whole paragraph) The A64 series doesn't compete well with the Core 2 series, and you should get an E7200/E7300 or an E8400.

Edit: Also, in the way of graphics performance, there aren't any new rumored cards coming out, except for the new Nvidia GTX 300 or something, that nobody really needs.
So, if you have the money, and you're going to be playing games over the next year, get an ATi 4850 or 4870, since the next release is rumored fall 2009.
 
Drakan290 said:
Okay, well as of right now, you're going to find that after Pentium D, Intel ditched the netburst architecture and went with something called the core series. Core came from the Pentium M chips, which were much more power efficient, which is where the Core 2 series came from, the Core series. Core 2 Duo meaning the 2nd generation of Core with two cores working symmetrically. Core 2 Quad are actually two dual core processors with a buffer zone for all four to work together. (Core i7 and AMD Phenom series are 'true' quad core processors) However, after A64, AMD hasn't updated their platform much, so the performance is higher, but not redesigned higher, so the Core 2 series is where you're going to want to buy from.
Phew, lengthy explanation!

But in any case, The E7200/E7300 is on par with the performance of the E8400/E8500 when overclocked, to say that they get about the same clock speed when overclocked. If you're gaming with current, or even coming-soon games, like what you said, Diablo 3/ SC2, a E7200/E7300 will be perfect, especially if you're getting a Xigmatek and a decent motherboard.
So, to answer your question (Since you probably didn't read my whole paragraph) The A64 series doesn't compete well with the Core 2 series, and you should get an E7200/E7300 or an E8400.

Edit: Also, in the way of graphics performance, there aren't any new rumored cards coming out, except for the new Nvidia GTX 300 or something, that nobody really needs.
So, if you have the money, and you're going to be playing games over the next year, get an ATi 4850 or 4870, since the next release is rumored fall 2009.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I guess if the Core 2 Duos are that far ahead, I'll grab one. I debated waiting for Nehalems to come out, and just spend the money for a large upgrade, but I can't really justify it. As for the video card, I just don't need one right now, so I was going to wait just for price drops rather than new architecture. If getting a quality mobo with onboard video gets expensive, I suppose I could just bite the bullet and throw in a video card.
 
I'm really against the whole 'wait for nehalem' thing. It's like a 20% increase in what, viewing webpages? Preliminary benchmarks say that it won't help gaming at all, and most of the hype is from intel supporters. Some prelims even say the AMD's Deneb cores are even, if not better than intel's i7 series. Only time will really tell how it comes out. My advice? Now is the time to buy, before stocks go even lower, and inflation rises. When that happens, prices will go up, and you're going to be out an upgrade for a while.
 
I'm going to dissent and recommend that you could get a cheap, separate video card to hold you over. Counterproductive, you say? Well, right now Intel performs better than AMD. The equivalent Intel build, with (for example) an overclocked E7200, would beat all non-Phenom AMD processors in most benchmarks -- and it wouldn't cost that much more money. However, most of the better-performing Intel motherboards don't come with an onboard GPU. (You could always sell the card later.)

The following is an Intel build without a video card. You could get a cheap card to power your monitor, like the HD3450, or you could get an inexpensive card that allows some light gaming, like the 9600GT.

$52 - Antec Three Hundred (free shipping)
$7 - Two Yate Loon D12SL-12 120mm case fans (for Three Hundred)
$60 - Antec Earthwatts 650W PSU (free shipping)
$87 - Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L
$175 - Intel E7200 & G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 800 bundle (free shipping on both)
$26 - Asus DRW-2014S1T SATA DVD burner (free shipping)
(reuse your HDDs for now)
$100 - Vista Home Premium 64-bit OEM (free shipping)
=====
$507 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

The only other thing that I would recommend is an aftermarket CPU cooler, especially if you're considering overclocking the processor. The Xigmatek HDT-S964 is a good choice, especially when paired with the ACK-I7751 retention bracket (which makes mounting it much easier).
 
tiraides said:
I'm going to dissent and recommend that you could get a cheap, separate video card to hold you over. Counterproductive, you say? Well, right now Intel performs better than AMD. The equivalent Intel build, with (for example) an overclocked E7200, would beat all non-Phenom AMD processors in most benchmarks -- and it wouldn't cost that much more money. However, most of the better-performing Intel motherboards don't come with an onboard GPU. (You could always sell the card later.)

The following is an Intel build without a video card. You could get a cheap card to power your monitor, like the HD3450, or you could get an inexpensive card that allows some light gaming, like the 9600GT.

$52 - Antec Three Hundred (free shipping)
$7 - Two Yate Loon D12SL-12 120mm case fans (for Three Hundred)
$60 - Antec Earthwatts 650W PSU (free shipping)
$87 - Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L
$175 - Intel E7200 & G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 800 bundle (free shipping on both)
$26 - Asus DRW-2014S1T SATA DVD burner (free shipping)
(reuse your HDDs for now)
$100 - Vista Home Premium 64-bit OEM (free shipping)
=====
$507 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

The only other thing that I would recommend is an aftermarket CPU cooler, especially if you're considering overclocking the processor. The Xigmatek HDT-S964 is a good choice, especially when paired with the ACK-I7751 retention bracket (which makes mounting it much easier).
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the same conclusion I reached when looking at the Intel boards. The only thing I've started thinking now is that the extra $45 for the E8400 is probably money well spent.
 
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