GPU cooling: Stock water block vs after market

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Wolf-R1

[H]ard|Gawd
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Pretty much as the title suggests. I'm looking to see if there's a worthwhile difference between what a manufacturer offers in terms of water blocks vs an after market solution. Initial Googling doesn't show a whole lot of data

For example there's a few manufacturer provided water blocks out there:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=

Vs. say what Koolance or Danger Den offers. Overall I want good performance while limiting my exposure to nuking the warranty. :D
 
That PNY system with CPU is really unique. However, a single 120mm radiator simply won't work for both the GPU and the CPU. It's a novel idea, but really should have used a 240mm radiator at least. On the other hand, the one that cools the GPU only is a really nice design, where it has both a fan on the GPU and an external radiator, so having both should help keep temps down and keep things quieter.

Manufacturers that include waterblocks don't make their own, they get it from other manufacturers and put it on their blocks. For example, PNY used Asetek coolers with some unique modifications. The Zotac uses a CoolIT system. EVGA uses Swiftech blocks. Not sure about that powercolor block, it looks like it could be an EK block.
 
Mostly I'm looking to add to my water loop. I've already got a single Black Ice GTX 280 cooling at 2600k. When I decide to add the video card I'll add another GTX 280 to the loop. Guess I should have specified that.

Thanks for the info...looks like it would be worthwhile to get a GPU with water block pre-installed. I'll probably lean toward EVGA, I'm using a Swiftech block on CPU now. :)
 
Wolf-R1 said:
Thanks for the info...looks like it would be worthwhile to get a GPU with water block pre-installed.:)
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its usually not. buy them separately, install it yourself and save a couple hundred dollars.
 
provided you keep the factory heat sink around you wont have warranty issues with the EVGA cards. They allow for aftermarket cooling. I'd go that route and save some $$. I have RMA'd these cards in the past without a lick of trouble, just swap blocks and send the dead one back in the package the new one arrived in.
 
Hmmm that's not bad, I could have sworn that evga was $899 at some point...
 
Take a close look at the factory provided waterblock and a quality waterblock, there is simply no comparison.

The only real advantage I would see in a factory block is it's installed.

I use Heatkiller blocks on my GPUs and my CPU. The quality is superb and the block itself is massive. The blocks are so efficient you may not need a second radiator.:D
I do not even put Heatkiller in the same sentence as Koolance or DangerDen, there is no comparison.

You WILL save money if you buy your blocks from Sidewinder. I like Frozen, but they are generally 10-15% higher than Sidewinder, that and they kill you on shipping charges.
 
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magoo said:
Take a close look at the factory provided waterblock and a quality waterblock, there is simply no comparison.

The only real advantage I would see in a factory block is it's installed.

I use Heatkiller blocks on my GPUs and my CPU. The quality is superb and the block itself is massive. The blocks are so efficient you may not need a second radiator.:D
I do not even put Heatkiller in the same sentence as Koolance or DangerDen, there is no comparison.

You WILL save money if you buy your blocks from Sidewinder. I like Frozen, but they are generally 10-15% higher than Sidewinder, that and they kill you on shipping charges.
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So basically you're saying that the Swiftech waterblocks that EVGA uses are inferior to Heatkiller blocks? This has the Swiftech block performing the best out of the bunch, albeit more restrictive.
 
Tsumi said:
So basically you're saying that the Swiftech waterblocks that EVGA uses are inferior to Heatkiller blocks? This has the Swiftech block performing the best out of the bunch, albeit more restrictive.
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Interesting...in your link Swiftech is generally better than the Heatkiller models though they get the 'Gold' award alongside each other.

I've bought a lot at Sidewinder...it does in fact appear that their prices are better regarding water blocks. ;)
 
Again I submit...getting a standard GTX 580 w/3GB RAM...
$590 sans shipping: http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Mini-HDMI-Lifetime-Warranty-03G-P3-1584-AR/dp/B004YJVUBG

AND the Heatkiller (which at least in the HD6970 roundup is NOT as good as the Swiftech model)
$102 plus $8.15 shipping: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/wahegpgtx570.html
Ends up being: $700.15

Is still nearly the same price as the model that comes stock with Swiftech water block installed:
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Mini-HDMI-Lifetime-Warranty-03G-P3-1591-AR/dp/tech-data/B0055RHDIU
$730/ free shipping.

Not enough of a difference to me to warrant buying parts separate.
 
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Wolf-R1 said:
Interesting...in your link Swiftech is generally better than the Heatkiller models though they get the 'Gold' award alongside each other.

I've bought a lot at Sidewinder...it does in fact appear that their prices are better regarding water blocks. ;)
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For some people, the restriction factor is also important. The Swiftech wins in raw performance, but the Heatkiller has the best combination of performance and low restriction. The Swiftech block is highly restrictive compared to the other blocks, and in loops where there are multiple blocks, this would be important.
 
Tsumi said:
For some people, the restriction factor is also important. The Swiftech wins in raw performance, but the Heatkiller has the best combination of performance and low restriction. The Swiftech block is highly restrictive compared to the other blocks, and in loops where there are multiple blocks, this would be important.
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Hard data? Can you show where lack of restriction gives overall benefit?
 
Lower restriction = higher flow rates. Higher flow rates = heat taken away from the CPU/GPU faster = lower temps. Higher restriction = more pumps needed to keep up flow rates.
 
Tsumi said:
Lower restriction = higher flow rates. Higher flow rates = heat taken away from the CPU/GPU faster = lower temps. Higher restriction = more pumps needed to keep up flow rates.
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LOL Technically that is anecdotal. I said "hard" evidence. Give me numbers. I can't find sites at the moment that illustrate flow rate vs temp.

Edit: Let me better explain what I'm looking for...
At some point you're going to hit a wall where your rate of return isn't going to get any higher because of flow rate. You'll be dumping as much heat into the water as you can despite the flow rate. I am wondering if that is the effect Swiftech was looking for when they designed their GPU water block. I can see where their GPU block would be good for ONE GPU+CPU but the HeatKiller model would be better for multiple GPUs+CPU. That is why I am asking for data. I don't plan on going SLI but it would be interesting to see hard numbers if I decide to change my mind. ;)
 
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magoo said:
I use Heatkiller blocks on my GPUs and my CPU. The quality is superb and the block itself is massive. The blocks are so efficient you may not need a second radiator.:D
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Please explain your logic...

Also I find the restriction argument unneeded with modern pumps most of us do not have such large loops that they get close to the limit of the pump and by that point they have gone to two loops anyway.

I vote for a factory install, one less thing to have to source and assemble.
 
I don't need hard facts. I just need to know simple physics.

I don't believe there has been any testing done on a specific set of blocks. But the general accepted minimum flow rate is 1-1.5 GPM. This is because even though the water is moving faster through the block, and has less time to heat up, the same thing happens from the radiator side. It moves faster through the radiator and thus has less time to dissipate the heat. I've seen tests (don't know where at the moment) where the curve flattens out around 1-1.5 GPM.
 
Tsumi said:
I don't need hard facts. I just need to know simple physics.

I don't believe there has been any testing done on a specific set of blocks. But the general accepted minimum flow rate is 1-1.5 GPM. This is because even though the water is moving faster through the block, and has less time to heat up, the same thing happens from the radiator side. It moves faster through the radiator and thus has less time to dissipate the heat. I've seen tests (don't know where at the moment) where the curve flattens out around 1-1.5 GPM.
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LMAO! 'Simple' physics doesn't give you understanding of the chemistry involved and the mathematics needed to prove it. Think Einstein would have been taken at face value if he would has said "I don't need to prove that energy and mass are the same...I just know it."
Furthermore water cooling is anything but simple.

Yes what you say is sound but not it isn't solid because of exactly what Gyrfalcon said. If current pumps keep flow rates high enough you don't have much to worry about restriction since you'll have enough water flowing through the block and radiator, thus your point is moot.
 
Even if the performance is the same, you can't put Swiftech in the same quality category as Heatkiller / Aqua. That's why people make comment about it.
 
Wolf-R1 said:
LMAO! 'Simple' physics doesn't give you understanding of the chemistry involved and the mathematics needed to prove it. Think Einstein would have been taken at face value if he would has said "I don't need to prove that energy and mass are the same...I just know it."
Furthermore water cooling is anything but simple.

Yes what you say is sound but not it isn't solid because of exactly what Gyrfalcon said. If current pumps keep flow rates high enough you don't have much to worry about restriction since you'll have enough water flowing through the block and radiator, thus your point is moot.
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I know what you're trying to say. And multiple blocks and radiators can add enough restriction to drop flow rates below those levels, which is why you see double and even triple pump tops to link two to three pumps in serial. If you have one radiator, and two blocks, then you're golden. Two radiators and three blocks, you might be approaching that threshold, depending on the pump you have, and how restrictive your parts are.

DarkStryke said:
Even if the performance is the same, you can't put Swiftech in the same quality category as Heatkiller / Aqua. That's why people make comment about it.
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Did you even read that post that I linked? They gave Swiftech and Heatkiller the gold award because of performance and superior quality.
 
Gyrfalcon said:
Please explain your logic...

Also I find the restriction argument unneeded with modern pumps most of us do not have such large loops that they get close to the limit of the pump and by that point they have gone to two loops anyway.

I vote for a factory install, one less thing to have to source and assemble.
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I will look for some hard data, I honestly don't think there is much.

My logic is.......Heatkiller blocks have performed better for me and the temperatures have been better than Danger Den and EK. (same loop, same gear) The EK blocks have been poorly manufactured, in fact the nickle flaked off one of my blocks.
 
Tsumi said:
Did you even read that post that I linked? They gave Swiftech and Heatkiller the gold award because of performance and superior quality.
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There's no way they can get a gold award for superior quality, they're no different then any other mainland China production out-sourcer for quality control. I don't know how you can claim some PRC produced good is on equal footing with a German manufactured product (like the HK from Watercool1).

People will believe anything these days.
 
DarkStryke said:
There's no way they can get a gold award for superior quality, they're no different then any other mainland China production out-sourcer for quality control. I don't know how you can claim some PRC produced good is on equal footing with a German manufactured product (like the HK from Watercool1).

People will believe anything these days.
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/facepalm
 
DarkStryke said:
There's no way they can get a gold award for superior quality, they're no different then any other mainland China production out-sourcer for quality control. I don't know how you can claim some PRC produced good is on equal footing with a German manufactured product (like the HK from Watercool1).

People will believe anything these days.
Click to expand...

Yeah because Swiftech hasn't established a name in water cooling for years... :eek:
/sarcasm
 
Whenever somebody says higher flow rate equals better heat dissipation, I always go back to the race car example.

If you have 2 race cars on a track, one going 50mph and one going 100mph, and you have a 100 yard stretch of yellow on the track, sure the faster car will pass it twice as frequently as the slower car, but it will spend half the time on the stretch of yellow. In short: all things equal, in the same period of time, the cars will have spent the same amount of time on the stretch of yellow.

Same applies to your water flowing through your blocks/radiators. Its a closed loop. Running the water faster will not make it remove heat any better.

Back to OP: Just get a block that wont rust, and you like the look of, and you'll be fine. You can price shop around for comparisons, and always read reviews to see how long they last.
 
I read the linked review, it seems well done.

heatkiller and swiftech look like very well performing blocks.

Only one question I have.....

How do you know the block on the EVGA GPU is the identical one that was tested in the guy's review?

I know the Heatkiller is the same retail block I can buy.
 
At least in the reviews and pertaining to what I'm looking for they won't be. The posted reviews are for AMD video and the Swiftech one is for Nvidia. ;)
 
magoo said:
I read the linked review, it seems well done.

heatkiller and swiftech look like very well performing blocks.

Only one question I have.....

How do you know the block on the EVGA GPU is the identical one that was tested in the guy's review?

I know the Heatkiller is the same retail block I can buy.
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I think all they are saying is the EVGA and Powercooler blocks are equal to aftermarket blocks. Made by aftermarket companies that have been around in the game. Could there be better VGA blocks by other brands yes/no/maybe. It's so hard to say what is better because no one ever really tests GPU blocks thoroughly for each model card.

To the OP if you can get them for cheaper or same price then yea I would go for one of the cards with it already installed. If you are scrounging to get the card you want and it saves you a couple extra bucks then buy it separately, just make sure the video card manufacturer is ok with removing the stock heatsink. Also make sure you keep the stock heatsink since most manufacturers make you put it back on before you RMA a card.

Also I personally wouldn't get any that have a a whole pre-made closed loop system ones since it sucks if you get 2-3 cards like that in SLI, finding spots for 120 rads. Also they give you no option for expanding the cooling if the 120 just isn't working for you.
 
thesecond said:
Whenever somebody says higher flow rate equals better heat dissipation, I always go back to the race car example.

If you have 2 race cars on a track, one going 50mph and one going 100mph, and you have a 100 yard stretch of yellow on the track, sure the faster car will pass it twice as frequently as the slower car, but it will spend half the time on the stretch of yellow. In short: all things equal, in the same period of time, the cars will have spent the same amount of time on the stretch of yellow.

Same applies to your water flowing through your blocks/radiators. Its a closed loop. Running the water faster will not make it remove heat any better.

Back to OP: Just get a block that wont rust, and you like the look of, and you'll be fine. You can price shop around for comparisons, and always read reviews to see how long they last.
Click to expand...

There's a point where this is true, but there's also a point where this is false. At lower flow rates, the water has more time to heat up, resulting in a greater temperature difference. At higher flow rates, the water temperature is kept more even throughout the loop. That's why many sites tell you as long as you keep a minimum flow rate of ~1 to 1.5 GPM, you're good.
 
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