Google Facing Antitrust Scrutiny in Europe Over Android

[ballistic90]

Why is everyone blaming the EU itself for the actions of an organization that is run by a group of companies? It's "Fairsearch Europe" that's behind the lawsuit, which is a collaboration between Microsoft, Nokia and Oracle. There might be plenty of reasons to complain about Europe, but you're proving yourself to be an ignorant dumbass by taking any news that includes the letters E and U and immediately blaming Europe itself or "socialism".

 

[Vicinity]

Europe is trying to sue Google. I'm shocked.

 

[kbrickley]

Why is everyone blaming the EU itself for the actions of an organization that is run by a group of companies? It's "Fairsearch Europe" that's behind the lawsuit, which is a collaboration between Microsoft, Nokia and Oracle. There might be plenty of reasons to complain about Europe, but you're proving yourself to be an ignorant dumbass by taking any news that includes the letters E and U and immediately blaming Europe itself or "socialism".

Because the EU shouldn't allow antiTrust lawsuits at all and neither should the USA ... since they still support this antiquated notion of antiTrust they are rightfully abused for it ... only three things should be protected from monopolies (Food, Water, and Power) ... everything else should be Laissez faire

 

[SomeoneElse]

Because the EU shouldn't allow antiTrust lawsuits at all and neither should the USA ... since they still support this antiquated notion of antiTrust they are rightfully abused for it ... only three things should be protected from monopolies (Food, Water, and Power) ... everything else should be Laissez faire

The problem is Food, Water, and Power are all monopolies in most cities in the US.

 

[arentol]

Why is everyone blaming the EU itself for the actions of an organization that is run by a group of companies? It's "Fairsearch Europe" that's behind the lawsuit, which is a collaboration between Microsoft, Nokia and Oracle. There might be plenty of reasons to complain about Europe, but you're proving yourself to be an ignorant dumbass by taking any news that includes the letters E and U and immediately blaming Europe itself or "socialism".

It's not a lawsuit, it is an anti-trust complaint. Those are two VERY VERY VERY different things.

In a lawsuit the government hears the evidence that plaintiff spends their time and money to gather. In an anti-trust complaint the government gathers the evidence themselves.

If a plaintiff wins a lawsuit the defendant has to pay them the judgement. If the EU determines anti-trust laws have been violated then they levy a FINE against the accused, who pay that fine TO THE EU.

Here is an example (taken from the Wikipedia article regarding the 2004 anti-trust judgement against Microsoft):

Citing ongoing abuse by Microsoft, the EU reached a preliminary decision in the case in 2003 and ordered the company to offer both a version of Windows without Windows Media Player and the information necessary for competing networking software to interact fully with Windows desktops and servers.[3] In March 2004, the EU ordered Microsoft to pay €497 million ($794 million or £381 million), the largest fine ever handed out by the EU at the time, in addition to the previous penalties, which included 120 days to divulge the server information and 90 days to produce a version of Windows without Windows Media Player.[4][5][6]

 

[ballistic90]

Because the EU shouldn't allow antiTrust lawsuits at all and neither should the USA ... since they still support this antiquated notion of antiTrust they are rightfully abused for it ... only three things should be protected from monopolies (Food, Water, and Power) ... everything else should be Laissez faire

So you want economic crashes to occur every 5 years? Laissez faire government has directly been responsible for numerous economic crashes, the poor treatment of workers during the industrial revolution, and the hiring of personal militaries to kill strikers during the same period.

Holding a company responsible for any wrongdoing is the result of a regulation. 40 hour work week? That's a regulation. Any rights that you hold for the purposes of protecting yourself from your employer or any other company is the result of the OPPOSITE of Laissez Faire bullshit. In fact, if you've noticed that the term "Laissez-fair" itself is French, you might wonder "Why don't the FRENCH use the government style they coined a term for?" It's because that shit doesn't work.

 

[ballistic90]

It's not a lawsuit, it is an anti-trust complaint. Those are two VERY VERY VERY different things.

In a lawsuit the government hears the evidence that plaintiff spends their time and money to gather. In an anti-trust complaint the government gathers the evidence themselves.

If a plaintiff wins a lawsuit the defendant has to pay them the judgement. If the EU determines anti-trust laws have been violated then they levy a FINE against the accused, who pay that fine TO THE EU.

Here is an example (taken from the Wikipedia article regarding the 2004 anti-trust judgement against Microsoft):

So you want companies to stop being allowed to submit anti-trust complaints at all because some companies abuse it? I'd rather put in an automatic mechanism that puts the complainers at fault for a major "abuse of process" complaint that puts a rather large fine against them to keep them from abusing the legal system.

 

[kbrickley]

So you want economic crashes to occur every 5 years? Laissez faire government has directly been responsible for numerous economic crashes, the poor treatment of workers during the industrial revolution, and the hiring of personal militaries to kill strikers during the same period.

Holding a company responsible for any wrongdoing is the result of a regulation. 40 hour work week? That's a regulation. Any rights that you hold for the purposes of protecting yourself from your employer or any other company is the result of the OPPOSITE of Laissez Faire bullshit. In fact, if you've noticed that the term "Laissez-fair" itself is French, you might wonder "Why don't the FRENCH use the government style they coined a term for?" It's because that shit doesn't work.

We live in a different world now then we did back then ... I think workers would fare better even without regulations (that is why non-union workers in the USA make more money than union workers) ... same with environmental regulations for the most part ... I think public sentiment would control most companies bad behaviors

It is the Anti-trust mentality I would like to see go ... I haven't seen a single anti-trust lawsuit that has helped consumers ... and all of them have hurt business

 

[Outamyhead]

So basically, people who are unable to compete with Google by releasing a superior product are now bribing government officials to try and interfere with them.

This has nothing to do with anything other than sour grapes from Micro$oft, their shill Nokia, and Oracle, who is still fuming from the fact that they were not allowed to copyright an API.

Fuck them.

Hey if it works for Apple, it can work for anyone.

 

[arentol]

So you want companies to stop being allowed to submit anti-trust complaints at all because some companies abuse it? I'd rather put in an automatic mechanism that puts the complainers at fault for a major "abuse of process" complaint that puts a rather large fine against them to keep them from abusing the legal system.

I didn't make any judgements about this or any other anti-trust suit. All I did was point out that it is VERY different from a lawsuit and that any fine resulting from the suit is paid to the EU, not the companies who filed the complaint.

However, I suppose that based on the post I quoted that you might think I was trying to infer the EU was at fault for taking up this particular investigation. I didn't mean to infer that and I am sorry if it sounded like I did.

Quite frankly there was almost no information on this investigation at all in that article so anyone rushing to judgement right now is a complete fool. I certainly did not mean to. I was mostly just trying to respond to the people who claimed that the EU wouldn't profit from this, and who put ALL the blame squarely on the complainers. The EU does have a small responsibility, but this early on they probably at least have to do their due diligence before deciding how deeply to investigate.

 

[DarthV]

Why don't they just fork Android and make their own OS & phones with it? How the &*%&# can someone claim anti-trust against an open source operating system?

Here's a $*#& clue, how about they just hit up:

http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html


Oh right, it's easier to have your large litigation & bribe departments to get someone else to do your dirty work for you. Heaven forbid actually using developers.

 

[Cyraxx]

Let me summarize the rational of Europe:

"Someone is beating Apple in the cell-phone game......


HAX!! THEY ARE CHEATING!"

 

[c3141hf]

So you want economic crashes to occur every 5 years? Laissez faire government has directly been responsible for numerous economic crashes, the poor treatment of workers during the industrial revolution, and the hiring of personal militaries to kill strikers during the same period.

Holding a company responsible for any wrongdoing is the result of a regulation. 40 hour work week? That's a regulation. Any rights that you hold for the purposes of protecting yourself from your employer or any other company is the result of the OPPOSITE of Laissez Faire bullshit. In fact, if you've noticed that the term "Laissez-fair" itself is French, you might wonder "Why don't the FRENCH use the government style they coined a term for?" It's because that shit doesn't work.

At no point in the last few hundred years has the United States or any of Western Europe been "Laissez faire". Free market implies that there is no government interfering in the market. Corporate welfare is still welfare, is still an entitlement and is interference and not free market.

The 40 hour work week did not come from governments and it did not come from regulation or unions. The 40 hour work week was popularized by Henry Ford who wanted to attract better workers to his business. In essence, it was the result of free market competition for workers.

You, like a lot of liberals, are making the common mistake of confusing true free market capitalism with corporatism, in which corporations run the government and are free to violate other people's natural rights. No corporation has the right to pollute or steal someone else's land, no corporation has the right to kill people, and, no corporation has the right to commit fraud.

In a free market, corporations, and their owners and shareholders, would be liable for any and all wrongs done by that corporation because "limited liability" is not a free market principle but is rather the result of a very non-free market in which large corporations have essentially bought out the government and created a corporate state in which they are insulated from liability.

 

[kbrickley]

In a free market, corporations, and their owners and shareholders, would be liable for any and all wrongs done by that corporation because "limited liability" is not a free market principle but is rather the result of a very non-free market in which large corporations have essentially bought out the government and created a corporate state in which they are insulated from liability.

Liability should be limited to actual damages though ... punitive damages are what is wrong with our legal system ... since when did a single person's life become worth millions of dollars in damages ... liability should be limited to actual damages according to the market you are in ... pain and suffering should not be allowed or have a fixed amount since they can not be objectively quanitified

 

[nlz242]

Android comes with the standard GApps

False.
Your manufacturer/vendor adds Gapps with google's agreement.
AOSP (Android Open Source Projects) comes withotu Gapps as those are proprietary and not open source.

If you install any AOSP based Android distribution (CyanogenMod for example), you do not get GApps and have to get and install them yourself.

So really, there is no case at all here. Could they force vendors to not install em? Probably...

 

[Spire3660]

I have never understood this reasoning. Android is Google's own product. How is adding additional functionality to their own product "anti-competitive"? Android is by far the most open and free OS for mobile phones. I can't understand how you could label it anti-competitive - I mean look at iOS.

Same deal with Microsoft and browsers in EU. Ridiculous. I love a lot of things about Europe, but these lawsuits are completely frivolous and absurd.

You obviously have no memory. The browser thing in Europe was because Microsoft DID WRONG, and the EU was hoping to fix it. I sometimes forget that on this site people dont remember how absolutely abusive MS was and wide their influence reached.