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Google Android Has Kill Switch

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Just as the commotion over Apple having a “kill switch” built into the iPhone has finally started to die down, the controversy is rearing it’s ugly head again. The difference this time is that it isn’t Apple or the iPhone causing the ruckus…it is Google and the Android powered G1 phone.

"Google may discover a product that violates the developer distribution agreement ... in such an instance, Google retains the right to remotely remove those applications from your device at its sole discretion,"
Click to expand...
 
I really don't see the big deal about this. If some developer makes a malicious program that starts spreading malware or a virus, shouldn't the carrier or google be able to nip it in the bud?
 
riot8ap said:
I really don't see the big deal about this. If some developer makes a malicious program that starts spreading malware or a virus, shouldn't the carrier or google be able to nip it in the bud?
Click to expand...

That might seem okay, may even sound like a great Idea. But the fact is one company, not even the provider or manufacturer of you phone, has the ability to decide that if they (not you) have an issue with a program they can remove it not just from their store but your phone. It puts more stress on the sellers not to make something that google might not like, and gives you no control on whether you like it or not. Even if they refund the money to you its a slippery slope and honestly it is Evil. They like Apple might believe that the kill switch itself isn't evil just its misuse. But its a continuation of a trend that you never really own anything, and they have the right to take it away from you.

Also how can you get anything about malicious or virus out of that Google quote is beyond me. From what I read google is talking about distribution issues, breaking their terms of agreements, maybe even issues with internal fees. Basically google is saying if you eventually have an issue with us we will remove your software from all our users phones.

So much for me getting an Android phone, will be sticking to windows mobile or BB for my next one.
 
riot8ap said:
I really don't see the big deal about this. If some developer makes a malicious program that starts spreading malware or a virus, shouldn't the carrier or google be able to nip it in the bud?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Current anti-virus programs basically do the same thing - they are the "kill switch" on your PC. The article states that Google will even try to get your money back for you from the developer should it need to remotely remove a program.
 
Well honestly since it is mostly open source it's probably not going to take long for some one to actually remove the kill switch.
 
kllrnohj said:
Exactly. Current anti-virus programs basically do the same thing - they are the "kill switch" on your PC. The article states that Google will even try to get your money back for you from the developer should it need to remotely remove a program.
Click to expand...

They're not even remotely the same.

Anti-virus is software that you specifically install, that you have the option to set to delete viruses.

This is the ability of a third party to randomly delete paid software from your phone.

Huge difference.

My question is...

How fucking retarded is Apple/Google that they wouldn't make the "kill switch" just disable the software, give you a dialog warning you of possible issues, and give you the option to ignore the kill command.

I mean, doesn't that make 1000x more sense?
 
kllrnohj said:
Exactly. Current anti-virus programs basically do the same thing - they are the "kill switch" on your PC. The article states that Google will even try to get your money back for you from the developer should it need to remotely remove a program.
Click to expand...

This is a program you use and put your trust in for the sole purpose of removing programs and file deemed untrustworthy. These programs are not perfect and do screw up, but you chose to put it on your machine for that purpose. This is not a feature that people have requested on their phones, most people don't even know necessarily what OS is on their phones, and gives you no option to disable this feature.

If they wanted to during these kill switch moments give you the ability to allow or deny the removal that would be one thing, or if they remove it from the store provide an application run time that serves the same purpose but you have to run it, that would also be acceptable. But would it be acceptable for JVC to break into you car to take out your stereo just because their was a recall? Or for GM to have car towed will your not around to their dealer because your window wipers where recalled? Just because its software, a bunch of ones and zeros doesn't make it any less yours.
 
riot8ap said:
I really don't see the big deal about this. If some developer makes a malicious program that starts spreading malware or a virus, shouldn't the carrier or google be able to nip it in the bud?
Click to expand...

Yes, as long as they "play nice" your fine. As long as the goverment "plays nice", we don't need the bill of rights.

This like many things is a balancing act. You want to stop "virus" like programs. But it is probably just a matter of time till this is used to turn off a VOIP program because the carrier can't charge you for as many minutes that way? We will just have to wait and see how long till they use it in an "unfriendly" way.
 
The problem is, the vast majority of people in this world are retarded. Left up to their own, many phone owners will download any program they see on late night TV onto their phone, and thus, will begin to start a mess of things. The owner will probably then be too stupid to realize what is going on, and be unable to remove it. Google fixes this problem for you. It is an unfortunate amount of hand holding, but if Windows forced updates on users -- it could be argued that many problems would never have even occurred from malicious software and/or lack of updates by Joe Blow user.
 
SilverSliver said:
The problem is, the vast majority of people in this world are retarded. Left up to their own, many phone owners will download any program they see on late night TV onto their phone, and thus, will begin to start a mess of things. The owner will probably then be too stupid to realize what is going on, and be unable to remove it. Google fixes this problem for you. It is an unfortunate amount of hand holding, but if Windows forced updates on users -- it could be argued that many problems would never have even occurred from malicious software and/or lack of updates by Joe Blow user.
Click to expand...

If your too dumb/lazy to take the time to update your computer, change the oil on your car, remember to eat (or stop eatting when your full), to damn bad. You can deal with your broken computer, car, and body. I'm tired of this "hand holding" society we have formed. Your stupidity is not my problem.
 
Nemesis999 said:
They're not even remotely the same.


How fucking retarded is Apple/Google that they wouldn't make the "kill switch" just disable the software, give you a dialog warning you of possible issues, and give you the option to ignore the kill command.
Click to expand...

Android actually does. When you download a program it shows you a list of potential conflicts that could arise and what they affect.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/10/tmobile-g1-review-android-market.jpg

No one is happy about a kill switch, but at least Google is being up front about it and they said they will make "reasonable efforts to recover the purchase price of the product ... from the original developer on your behalf."
 
Looks like I will never get an android based phone then.

T-Mobile MDA/HTC Wizard WM 6.1 FTW
 
Jaerb4 said:
Android actually does. When you download a program it shows you a list of potential conflicts that could arise and what they affect.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/10/tmobile-g1-review-android-market.jpg

No one is happy about a kill switch, but at least Google is being up front about it and they said they will make "reasonable efforts to recover the purchase price of the product ... from the original developer on your behalf."
Click to expand...

I'm happy. Especially if i have to deal with execs who get email and documents on their phone and google makes the kill switch available to me. Blackberry Enterprise lets me kill phones when lost. I only wish i could do this with the iphone.
 
vengence said:
If your too dumb/lazy to take the time to update your computer, change the oil on your car, remember to eat (or stop eatting when your full), to damn bad. You can deal with your broken computer, car, and body. I'm tired of this "hand holding" society we have formed. Your stupidity is not my problem.
Click to expand...


This lack of hand holding is causing a majority of botnets and zombies around the world right now. Joe Blows stupidity BECOMES your problem unfortunately. Most people don't update their computers. Most people don't even have anti-virus, or even a firewall on. This lack of updating keeps exploitable flaws out there, and keeps the malicious software industry alive.

Yes, it's hand holding, but if I had to choose between mandatory,automatic and silent updates, and Granny Gibsons zombiebot putting a DNS beatdown on me because she doesn't have a clue what she's doing -- I'll take the automatic updates and automatic removal of malicious programs.
 
SilverSliver said:
This lack of hand holding is causing a majority of botnets and zombies around the world right now. Joe Blows stupidity BECOMES your problem unfortunately. Most people don't update their computers. Most people don't even have anti-virus, or even a firewall on. This lack of updating keeps exploitable flaws out there, and keeps the malicious software industry alive.

Yes, it's hand holding, but if I had to choose between mandatory,automatic and silent updates, and Granny Gibsons zombiebot putting a DNS beatdown on me because she doesn't have a clue what she's doing -- I'll take the automatic updates and automatic removal of malicious programs.
Click to expand...

Good point and reply. I however am pretty confident that the hordes of people programing for the Andriod OS will have a workaround for the killswitch or even a method to remove it completely. It'll happen. It usually does to these sorts of things.
 
vengence said:
If your too dumb/lazy to take the time to update your computer, change the oil on your car, remember to eat (or stop eatting when your full), to damn bad. You can deal with your broken computer, car, and body. I'm tired of this "hand holding" society we have formed. Your stupidity is not my problem.
Click to expand...


Totally agree. The stupid or ignorant either need to learn before hand, or they will pay the price and learn after shit happens.
 
i use the tmobile wing and tilt currently .. looking to get one of these things when they drop to 200-300 range.. who cares if they have "kill switch" im sure it will be disabled or never used..
 
Banko said:
Well honestly since it is mostly open source it's probably not going to take long for some one to actually remove the kill switch.
Click to expand...

Except it's still 100% possible and 100% GPL-compliant for someone to make open source software that has software protection. I'm sure the little cover over their kill switch is well protected.
 
SilverSliver said:
This lack of hand holding is causing a majority of botnets and zombies around the world right now. Joe Blows stupidity BECOMES your problem unfortunately. Most people don't update their computers. Most people don't even have anti-virus, or even a firewall on. This lack of updating keeps exploitable flaws out there, and keeps the malicious software industry alive.

Yes, it's hand holding, but if I had to choose between mandatory,automatic and silent updates, and Granny Gibsons zombiebot putting a DNS beatdown on me because she doesn't have a clue what she's doing -- I'll take the automatic updates and automatic removal of malicious programs.
Click to expand...

Two things.

The Stupidity of the Stupid shouldn't cost me, my rights as a consumer. My rights are not stomped on by the misuse of this, they are stomped on by a manufacturer or in this case software developer who puts in a back door to remove products I desired and purchased whether or not they refund me. How hard is it to make this feature be on by default but give people the option to disable it, both during the startup wizard or later in admin tools or something. Fine People are stupid, but what about the smart ones, are we (the people in the know) expected to just accept that our rights are being impugned because grandma needs help.

Second. While I am sure malicious programs are also covered. That quote from Google only references distributions and other TOS disagreements. Should your software you purchased be removed from your phone because the above parties are having a semantics debate?
 
Heh, Google and Apple are both evil companies.
 
This is a great idea. I wish Microsoft made a kill switch so it could uninstall software it deems unacceptable from my computer without my say. Google is only doing this for our protection. I don't want to have the ability to think nor do I want freewill. I want my hand to be held from cradle to grave. Awwww, thank-you Google for being my friend and my protector.
 
Ockie said:
Heh, Google and Apple are both evil companies.
Click to expand...

i hate big government and big corporations...make no mistake...but

did you ever notice any company that actually turns a decent profit is suddenly evil?

seriously. i don't like that people make more money than me, and i like making money, it's a necessary evil, but like...if i designed a piece of software that took off and i built a company around it...someones going to call my company evil, i'm sure.
 
vengence said:
If your too dumb/lazy to take the time to update your computer, change the oil on your car, remember to eat (or stop eatting when your full), to damn bad. You can deal with your broken computer, car, and body. I'm tired of this "hand holding" society we have formed. Your stupidity is not my problem.
Click to expand...
want to run for president? :)
 
Manaknight said:
i hate big government and big corporations...make no mistake...but

did you ever notice any company that actually turns a decent profit is suddenly evil?

seriously. i don't like that people make more money than me, and i like making money, it's a necessary evil, but like...if i designed a piece of software that took off and i built a company around it...someones going to call my company evil, i'm sure.
Click to expand...

It's not money.

Quite honestly, Microsoft does less BS than either Google or Apple.
For instance: they give their users all the new features for Zune for FREE, in contrast of Apple forcing hardware upgrades. Just one example.

Google's policies (like this one mentioned) are what makes them evil.
 
matrix563 said:
want to run for president? :)
Click to expand...

On the [H] party ticket we have Vengence. His campaign slogan is; "Get a brain l00z3r". ;)

The hand holding has come to this current level in small increments over time as a result of stupid legislation and even more stupid litigations. We missed our chance to avoid the hand holding our government and corporations do some time back. (like, around the end of the Great Depression). If we did not elect idiots that put forward and vote for asinine legislations, and if we as a people were a little less sue happy, it might have turned out differently. Lawyers and insurance companies might not be running the US government and our corporations right now. :(

Not agreeing with the hand holding, just offering an opinion on how we got here.
The kill switch can be seen as deterrent to lawsuits by idiot that get their phones infected.
 
Once again, I'm glad I don't have a cell phone. If you want to talk to me, you have to pull the string and ring the bell attached at this end. Totally soup cans for me. My parents hate it. My friends hate it. I don't give a fuck. If you want me to be on call, it will cost you money. Guess what I do when a telemarketer calls me? I tell them to hang on and I put the phone in front of the TV and turn the volume all the way up. Every five minutes or so I'll check to see if they are still there. I tell them hang on just a few more minutes. It's fucking hilarious.
 
im sorry but when 95% of computers in the entire world use one operating system, and my phone is supposed to do most of a pc's tasks, im buying the software that allows me to seamlessly play with both devices. period. wm6.1 on htc touch diamond or pro ftw.
 
krupted said:
im sorry but when 95% of computers in the entire world use one operating system, and my phone is supposed to do most of a pc's tasks, im buying the software that allows me to seamlessly play with both devices. period. wm6.1 on htc touch diamond or pro ftw.
Click to expand...

Windows Mobile != Windows

Windows Mobile has very small amount of the total cell phone market.
 
krupted said:
im sorry but when 95% of computers in the entire world use one operating system, and my phone is supposed to do most of a pc's tasks, im buying the software that allows me to seamlessly play with both devices. period. wm6.1 on htc touch diamond or pro ftw.
Click to expand...

Right, because Blackberries, iPhones, and Symbian based phones don't work well with Windows. :rolleyes:
 
Jaerb4 said:
Well, you need to use iTunes to set up your iPhone so by default it doesn't play that well. :p
Click to expand...

Well,
iTunes=iPhone
ActiveSync=Windows Mobile
BES=Blackberry

Then you've got all the basic and propriety devices in there as well.
But everything's got a crutch.
 
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